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Here’s What The World Thinks About The American Response To The Oregon Massacre

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posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:28 AM
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a reply to: Kryties

It's no crazier than my high school.

Swap guns for knives and the situation was pretty much exactly that when I was a lad.




posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:30 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Kryties

Well no, that is precisely the point.

We in Britain for example, have a fair few persons wandering about who fall into the demographic of being mentally ill, and potentially dangerously mentally ill at that. Many folk in that situation are free to wander around, and many more remain unidentified, or get lost by a system riddled with inefficiencies, inadequacies, and outright bloody uselessness in some cases.

However, because our leaders see fit to allow that nonsense, we have gun laws which restrict, although not altogether prohibiting, the sale of armaments to civilians, how they may be stored, and so on.


A combination of the two - better mental health services AND gun restrictions would even further prevent atrocities like the regular events in America.

I don't believe that one, without the other would work entriely either way.


I personally object to not being allowed to go about with a broadsword strapped to my back, but that's the downside to the choices that have been made here.


HA. Yes, I think many of us would love to be able to walk around with a broadsword on our backs, if only just for the Steampunk value to it



Now in America, rather than banning guns, or taking appropriate measures to prevent dangerous felons and persons who exhibit dangerous psychological maladies from accessing either victims or weapons, what has happened is that because gun bans are unpopular, and mental healthcare provision is too expensive, they have simply failed to MAKE a choice, hence the ridiculous state of things today.


It's a triple whammy in America, in my view. Little to no proper mental health services in favour of criminalising the underprivileged and poor combined with little to no laws preventing mentally unstable people from having access to powerful firearms AND the fact that the general public has access to powerful assault rifles AT ALL - all three combine to produce exactly what we are seeing in America in recent times.


edit on 6/10/2015 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:31 AM
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And here is a particularly interesting graph and statement, again from your own governmental stats:





There has been a pronounced change in the type of weapons used in homicide since monitoring began. Firearm use has declined by more than half since 1989-90 as a proportion of homicide methods, and there has been an upward trend in the use of knives and sharp instruments, which in 2006-07 accounted for nearly half of all homicide victims.


Source

Funny that guns were already on the decline as the tool to use in 1990....man that is a STEEP incline in knife/sharp instrument usage with no difference in actual homicide rate.

So on the VERY year that laws were changed, knives accounted for nearly half of all homicide victims and the trend has continued upward....but yeah, guns HAVE to be the issue right?


edit on 10/6/15 by Vasa Croe because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:33 AM
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originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Kryties

There is no #ing debate, our 2nd amendment guarentess us the right, period end of story. Guns are not going away, do you even realize that there would be a revolution and war in the street if a grab was made by the government towards guns. You do get that right?

I know other country's don't take many things seriously, and are swayed by the whimsical desires of the politically correct.The U.S while suffering some of the same plight, also firmly respects it's amendments and what the forefathers thought about our rights and how to guarantee those rights.

Love us, hate us, call us idiots, throw statistics in our face. It doesn't matter, get that through your heads, evidently we both are stubborn because neither are changing their position.

Having said all that, I understand there's a problem with mass shootings gun violence in general, it must be addressed. Banning guns is not going to be our way of addressing it as previously stated, so we are going to have to address the social and psychological conditions that foster this environment and for us that will be the path of progress. Thank you for your concern outside world, just remember that platform from which you crapfling you wouldn't have if it wasn't for the U.S.


Well, don't be surprised by regular mass shootings, kiddies killing kiddies and cops killing anyone that moves...

You do not live in the wild west anymore, John Wayne is not a hero and your weapons will not save you against a rogue government...just go look at lockheed martins product list, unless you have billions to spend on warheads, missiles and space weapons then you stand no chance in an armed battle against the US army

also, reading your post makes me think that you are a very dangerous person in a very dangerous environment...you are a massive part of the problem in the US and it is not going away!

god help you all



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:33 AM
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To address another common fallacy, of how a lot of people say "criminals don't respect laws anyway, so any gun restrictions would just be pointless.

Well, isn't that the same logic as saying criminals will always speed down a highway, drunk and unlicensed, in a stolen vehicle? So why even bother having any regulations for who's allowed to drive, or any laws against stealing cars?



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:36 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Kryties

It's no crazier than my high school.

Swap guns for knives and the situation was pretty much exactly that when I was a lad.


Mate we used to make ninja stars and slingshots using lead fishing sinkers and fire them at trees or the poor fish in the lake we had at school. Apart from the poor bugger we donged on the head accidentally and sent him for stitches at the nurses station, there was no acts of mass violence or mass shootings that took place at our school - nor did we talk of what type of guns to bring to school for self protection.

That's not to say every school is the same, I know that. But the fact remains that America seems to be the only country that is having serious discussion on actually arming teachers and students - something that we never even dreamed of having to do over here as it is not necessary.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:38 AM
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"Nobody wants to take all your guns."

That made me lol. Hard.

Have you met a liberal? Are you new to ATS? Is this the first gun rights thread you've been involved in? Even on ATS there are members who will happily and cheerfully tell you that gun ownership is akin to mental retardation and that if only all the guns were banned, violent crime would stop.

So yes, there are many, many people who would like to "ban all the guns." To pretend otherwise is just plain ignorant.

There are really pretty few options. An outright ban, which I don't see working. Enforcement of existing law, which isn't really effective when it comes to those who obtain guns illegally. Pass new laws, which still doesn't effect those who obtain guns illegally. Even those who say addressing mental health aren't taking in to account all the little details. You visit a shrink during a divorce, why should you give up your right to a gun for the rest of your life? What about the privacy laws?

As for what the rest of the world thinks?

The tens of millions of lawful gun owners who didn't walk into a school, office, store, university, neighbor's house, etc and shoot anybody last week will thank you for not treating them as if they did.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:38 AM
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originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Kryties

It's no crazier than my high school.

Swap guns for knives and the situation was pretty much exactly that when I was a lad.


Mate we used to make ninja stars and slingshots using lead fishing sinkers and fire them at trees or the poor fish in the lake we had at school. Apart from the poor bugger we donged on the head accidentally and sent him for stitches at the nurses station, there was no acts of mass violence or mass shootings that took place at our school - nor did we talk of what type of guns to bring to school for self protection.

That's not to say every school is the same, I know that. But the fact remains that America seems to be the only country that is having serious discussion on actually arming teachers and students - something that we never even dreamed of having to do over here as it is not necessary.


Funny thing that your homicide rate has not decreased there as I showed in my previous 2 posts. Also odd that the number of homicides with knife/sharp instruments used doubled. Once again proving it is not the tool used.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:40 AM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

So on the VERY year that laws were changed, knives accounted for nearly half of all homicide victims and the trend has continued upward....but yeah, guns HAVE to be the issue right?


Please stop willfully ignoring the fact that the restrictions here stopped mass shootings altogether.

The point was made in my OP that we never claimed it would stop all violence, just greatly reduce the risk of mass shootings and crime-by-gun. I am sure you would agree that something is better than nothing at all when it comes to potentially saving innocent lives.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:41 AM
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originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Kryties

Then your whole argument is ridiculous, any gun can kill just the same sorry, "high powered" ignorant. The guns available are semi automatic, there are restrictions in place and it's not going to go further. No one is going to take any Americans guns.

The guy would of killed with a 9mm, the guy would of made bombs, the guy would of stabbed ect. If you are hell bent on killing you will, for us we will address this in another way( social and psychological conditions) and the world can go pound sand, and shake their pretentious heads and make asinine comments. We don't give a # what you think,

thank you.


Then please explain why countries that have enacted restrictions see very little mass murders and have a greatly reduced amount of incidents of people dying by guns - if your theory was somehow true?

I said it in my OP (which you clearly did not read properly as this was already covered in it) that restrictions do not stop ALL incidents, but they provably greatly reduce them. Why do you insist on ignoring this absolute fact?


Why are you so fixated on guns?

Moat deaths in america are caused by other criteria, many factors more deaths in fact.

But you concentrate obsessively on one of the lowest causes of death, why?

Because to some like yourself, the dead are somehow deader? Because it was a gun, not a brick or knife or car or meds.....

You dobt care about saving lives, you care about taking guns.

If your entnt was to save luces there are many areas taking many more that needyour attention much more.

Just saying

You= gunophobe

You have an obsession with guns, you fixate on them, excluding far more dangerous things in your quest to demonize them.

This is not healthy behavior......think about talking to someone please.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:42 AM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
To address another common fallacy, of how a lot of people say "criminals don't respect laws anyway, so any gun restrictions would just be pointless.

Well, isn't that the same logic as saying criminals will always speed down a highway, drunk and unlicensed, in a stolen vehicle? So why even bother having any regulations for who's allowed to drive, or any laws against stealing cars?


Excellent point mate! Some people in this thread alone have been attempting to use that fallacy, I was in the process of forming a post to answer just that but I think you have done it perfectly for me.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:43 AM
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originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

So on the VERY year that laws were changed, knives accounted for nearly half of all homicide victims and the trend has continued upward....but yeah, guns HAVE to be the issue right?


Please stop willfully ignoring the fact that the restrictions here stopped mass shootings altogether.

The point was made in my OP that we never claimed it would stop all violence, just greatly reduce the risk of mass shootings and crime-by-gun. I am sure you would agree that something is better than nothing at all when it comes to potentially saving innocent lives.


That is exactly my point....it hasn't made a single bit of difference at all, and that is straight from your government stat source. The number of homicides have not decreased, just the use of a different weapon.

All that happened was guns were restricted. This was supposed to decrease homicide rates/killings in general. It hasn't.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:44 AM
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a reply to: Kryties


The American response has been to do nothing.


This isn't entirely true. The American response is actually to create a media circus that ends up immortalizing the shooter throughout the public consciousness. It sends a message to all would be shooters that they TOO can do this and get their message out.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:45 AM
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originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Kryties

It's no crazier than my high school.

Swap guns for knives and the situation was pretty much exactly that when I was a lad.


Mate we used to make ninja stars and slingshots using lead fishing sinkers and fire them at trees or the poor fish in the lake we had at school. Apart from the poor bugger we donged on the head accidentally and sent him for stitches at the nurses station, there was no acts of mass violence or mass shootings that took place at our school - nor did we talk of what type of guns to bring to school for self protection.

That's not to say every school is the same, I know that. But the fact remains that America seems to be the only country that is having serious discussion on actually arming teachers and students - something that we never even dreamed of having to do over here as it is not necessary.


I'll say it again, change your violent attitude and you may start to advance as a people instead of being stuck in the wild west and think violence is all cool and fun!

making ninja stars as a kid is where it needs to start...why would you want to make something that can kill or seriously harm anyone, maybe it's down to western movies or call of duty video games or some other institutionalised acceptance of violence but this needs to stop to make the USA safe for your children and their children

It's all down to attitude and it needs to start at a very very early age, no toy guns no toy weapons at all and you may find your next generation more tolerant than this current one



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:46 AM
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originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: Kryties

I keep my guns thank you.


Nobody wants to take ALL your guns away, please stop repeating this lie.


Just most of the guns from most people right?

Come and take them!!

Seriously, come right now and take them or quit your bleeting, we are all tiredof hearing it.

Nothing but air and opportunity between you and our guns, here they are, ccome on, come and take them.

I mean it isnt like you would be afraid to help take the guns when you are pushing this right?



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:47 AM
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a reply to: Kryties

You say gun restriction .. what type of gun's do you want to restrict and why do you think it will help?

Here in the US we believe in gun ownership not just because of self protection, recreation and hunting but also for defense of enemies foreign and domestic. We think of guns as the last resort for freedom if our government ever becomes tyranycal. The Brits taught us that.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:48 AM
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originally posted by: johnwick

Why are you so fixated on guns?

Moat deaths in america are caused by other criteria, many factors more deaths in fact.

But you concentrate obsessively on one of the lowest causes of death, why?


How many of the recent mass murders were committed in America by anything other than guns? What is the ratio of mass murder committed by guns to mass murders committed by anything other than guns?

Therein lies your answer.


You dobt care about saving lives, you care about taking guns.


That is an outright lie and one that I have already answered a few times in this thread, including in the OP if I remember correctly. Please read the thread again carefully and completely before you continue to post absolute lies.


You= gunophobe


Again, read the thread and realise just how wrong you are.

Why do some people feel the need to make stuff up to suit their agenda? It really does detract from intelligent conversation and only proves what I was saying that anti-gun control advocates will use anything - including deflection and outright lies - in their attempts to get their point across.


(post by Agit8dChop removed for a manners violation)

posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:50 AM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

This was supposed to decrease homicide rates/killings in general. It hasn't.


No, it was supposed to prevent mass shootings, which is exactly what happened. The laws worked perfectly. Why do you willfully ignore this?



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 06:51 AM
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You also love that BS line about protecting yourself from a rebel like government..

news flash, your government has been butchering people for years now.. you haven't done jack.

second, if your government decided to come after you , the people.. they're using tanks, drones, jets, bombs...

finally, when your forefathers wrote that amendment, it was in a day of muskets and single shot weapons.. i have no doubt those with half a brain-cell would see todays weapons would not have been a part of their law.




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