Guy robs Florida shop, owner says "nah" and grabs robber's gun, shoots robber

Good.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Clearly #NotAllLivesMatter

The owner had some diamond plated b@lls on him. Having taking in the other witness into the shop I wonder what the robbers exit plan was had the owner not saved the day.

a reply to: interupt42

It's all speculation, but given that they weren't making any effort to hide their identity and they appeared to arrive and depart on foot, I can't imagine it would've been anything good. That witness probably saved the day to some degree simply by being there. They weren't ready for anybody to walk in on it and that caused enough of a distraction for the owner to act.

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig
a reply to: Shamrock6

I don't know, did the shop owner try any de-escalation techniques first?

Why did he shoot the bad guy five times? Isn't that excessive?

Couldn't he have just shot the gun out of the guys hand, or maybe in his knee?

Geez, how dare he defend his life and his livelihood...

How could he actually know if the robbers were going to hurt him?

Most likely the Adrenalin rush of kill or be killed and fear probably were the major factors. There were two gunmen, so most likely his mind was fixated on both. The owner looks like he never held a gun either.

But least noone got killed, which is rare given... the jaw dropping footage...

originally posted by: WHWIV
The reason the argument is silly is because that shop owner is not a person who went to an academy and given training in how to deal with these types of scenarios. Presumably a police officer has. Really though the shop owner almost died and probably should have just cooperated. What's your life worth? Not any amount of money, I can tell you that.

Did you watch the video of the pastor in Arizona, a prominent civil rights activist who took several Police Scenarios that are a part of their training regiment? His mind changed real quick when he "#" two innocent actors and then got "killed" by the other because of split second hesitation. Its easy for you and other Anti Police minded folks to just say "he should have gotten training". One of the weakest, most simple minded cop out arguments I have ever read. You cannot possibly train an Officer in non lethal courses of action for every scenario they face, because no two scenarios will EVER be the same. Little things your ignorant mind may not grasp make all the difference, vehicle placement in the parking lot, time of day, how far away is backup, does this suspect have any friends, who is the aggressor in this street fight, recent crime trends YOU THE OBSERVER ARE NOT AWARE OF. All of these things factor into when a cop uses force, lethal or non lethal. It's easy for you to sit there, sipping your Starbucks in your low crime neighborhood in the comfort of your own home and be an armchair activist and demand a trial for every cop that uses force and demand they cut back on use of force or stop using lethal force.

Also, who are you to say how much someone values their own life? This man's life and livelihood were at risk, if he wants to take a chance and not comply with two armed thugs then that is his choice. Looks to me like it payed off, one of those low life's was wounded and immediately apprehended, I imagine he will give up his partner who abandoned him in short order in exchange for a shorter prison term, and the shop owner survived. Not only did he survive, he sent a message to other crooks that he will fight back. Criminals don't like resistance.

a reply to: Shamrock6

It's "case in point" just FYI.

Grammar and punctuation has never been my strongest attribute and gets worse when I type comments out at 1 am after a long day playing. I usually make a point of stating the fact that my grammar sucks in the "reason for edit" in many past post.

Some people pride themselves in trivial matters such as grammar (that's what administrative assistants are for) and pointing it out because of silly ego reasons. Here is my ego talking ol' chap:

I pride myself being 28 years old and not having to work due to putting my brainpower to better use that affects my day to day existence - I am not a daily commuter - I wake up when I want, go to sleep when I want, and do whatever I feel like in between those times. Not bad for a high-school dropout - real men carve out their own path in life with much fulfillment.

Sometimes petty intellectual scoring points is the closest some adults come to actually experiencing any form of success in their lives...

Your pettiness of bringing the above to attention has been noted.

I can drop an entire database kept by a media outlet that shows the overwhelming number of shootings by police are against armed people.

I know. Yet, what does Tourkeythepig's talking points have to do with the video you posted or the video I posted...? What does dropping an entire database kept by media have to do with the video you posted or the video I posted...?

THINK before responding.

The problem is that when it's bad, it's bad. And people post it when it's bad, and other people aren't able to understand that those incidents are in the vast minority because they never hear about all the righteous shootings or all the times nobody gets OC sprayed or Tased or arrested. So, since they never hear about those things, they never happen. Since they do hear about the comparative few times something goes wrong, well that must be how it always happens!

No other first world nation police are inclined or feel the need to do so and/or entertain the thought of doing so.

The day one finds the need NOT to be tempted to counter the negative police culture in the States, is the day they know the police culture in the States is acting civilized like other first world nation police forces. No other first world nation police need to "set the record straight".

Let it marinate.

Stepping out to eat lunch, coming back to "turn the key" on that door above soon...

You two really need to THINK before responding. This is way too easy...

I actually like you Shamrock and still do. Starred many of your past post.

When will this black on black crime end? I know, bad joke, but it needed to be said. I agree with Shamrock that this was probably going to end badly for the shop owner. I figure he got the same feeling and that's why he fought. Good on him.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Yes the cases you mention are tragic indeed.

I know AND I know that you realize that as well. There are numerous tragic and unnecessary cases in the States taking place for many decades which points to a deeper issue that many fail to realize.

Most police in the States have good hearts and perform a very difficult job with much integrity that weighs heavily on their body, mind and spirit, yet the overall police culture in the States is very corrupt and dysfunctional as a whole. This is not an opinion - this is a fact one can easily see if they remove their blinders and personal bias. Some cannot see the forest for the trees because they have nothing else to compare to.

It's not the curriculum and training that appears to be the problem, it is the screening of who can become a police officer that is the problem and the apparent lack of keeping up on yearly physical and psychological evaluation and/or testing. There appears to be a high number of emotionally stunted individuals with egos employed in the U.S police culture. And the salaries of police officers in the States is pathetically low when compared to other first world nation police constables. Our constables earn on average of $115 000 + per/yr and deserve every single tax payer penny of that income.

Also, I'm not only referring to extreme cases such as unnecessary shootings that happen at an alarming higher rate than any other first world nation. I'm also referring to simple everyday interactions with common folk that ends up with the person being beat down and arrested for doing absolutely nothing wrong by an enraged officer whose ego is out of control, or the cases where racism seems to be the motivation for harassment and detainment that robs an old man walking with a golf club from the true currency of life, or the senseless stripping naked of a woman by male officers as she screams in horror, or the cases of a women getting their face smashed in, and so on.

U.S police appear to be very "frogish" in nature. Their temperament seems to be off balanced and fragile. They often find themselves "reacting" skittishly instead of "responding" confidently to the point of "leaping" without thinking it all through. If they do not take a breath and self police themselves, they will easily find themselves jumping through hoops and acting out (even on social media) because their ego was offended, therefore proving the case in point of possessing a low emotional I.Q that cause one to express childish and petty minded comment such as:

juz beez a low iQ pooleece offica.

Your words above are clearly a demonstration of extreme petulance. Very immature to even act out your thoughts in such a petty way in your comment. It shows that I manipulated your emotions and made you jump through hoops TWICE. You had to pull back and delete both those comments. People that are given a gun and badge that are prone to such immature behaviour again proves the case in point.

Now, let's discuss common sense:

That said, your handful of cases do not erase the hundreds of thousands of cases in which the criminal had a real gun and indeed shot someone.

True. Yet, your handful of cases do not erase the hundreds of thousands of cases where killing, incompetence, humiliation, racially motivated harassment, and extreme violence was unnecessary, or uncalled for. The counter cases do not erase the fact that the police culture in the States is corrupt and dysfunctional when compared to other first world nations.

Fatal police shootings in 2015 approaching 400 nationwide:

*The link is not working so just google the above and read the Washington Post article with the detailed stats and graphics. Let it marinate until you are able to see past your own bias.

Here is how the police culture in the States compares to the global community:

By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years

www.theguardian.com...

Also, your first comment in this thread had absolutely NOTHING to do with the video in the O.P. It was bias and animosity driven and that is what was being expressed. Let me explain using your own words:

I don't know, did the shop owner try any de-escalation techniques first?

Why did he shoot the bad guy five times? Isn't that excessive?

Couldn't he have just shot the gun out of the guys hand, or maybe in his knee?

Geez, how dare he defend his life and his livelihood...

How could he actually know if the robbers were going to hurt him?

Show me one case that mirrored the video in the OP where a cop did not have a gun on his person; was sitting at his desk or in their cruiser minding their business; then accosted by two individuals with a gun; was forced to lay down; then wrestled a gun away and shoot the perpetrator in self defence.

Understand how petulant and irrational your comment was now...?

Taking that into consideration, if you point what looks like a real gun at me, I will shoot you.

I have no qualms with that. Yet, there are countless cases where people are shot by American police for not doing so. There are countless cases where people are beaten for no reason other than the fact the officer seems to lack personal restraint and a bruised ego. There are countless cases that clearly show how American police culture as a whole is broken and corrupt despite the fact many officers have good hearts. There are many cases where they do indeed protect and serve to the highest degree, but again, that does not mean there is not a huge problem in the way police in the States operate and are governed.

A honest, fair and mature minded individual would acknowledge this fact despite the hundreds of thousands of cases that demonstrate what they are employed and paid to do.

It's not personal, it's just that American society deserves common sense and integrity to be applied at all times by those paid to maintain order through serving and protecting. The crime stats in the States clearly show that the people are not getting their tax dollars worth...

Here is a case where they did get their money's worth - this officer possessed empathy, composure, presence of mind, heart, no ego, and the willingness to deescalate the situation in a peaceful manner. His adrenaline was pumping and make no mistake, if he had to light this guy up, he would of done it in a second, which is totally understandable from my POV, yet he handled it with love and presence of mind despite all that. He was a champion in my eyes and I know there are many like him in the States:

But hey what do I know?

;-)

a reply to: Involutionist

Trust me, you have not, nor will you ever manipulate my emotions.

originally posted by: Involutionist
What a childish petty attempt at projecting your bias and ignoring the many extreme cases in the past where police in the States shoot people who are unarmed for no logical reason other than ineptitude, fear, ego and poor training.

Which has what to do with when there is a reason and people still complain?

a reply to: Involutionist

And I like you as well. Which is why I did something I've done twice, maybe three times since I've been on the site: corrected something you said. If you've starred many of my posts, you should know that I'm not one of "those" people that runs around trying to score cheap feelings of intellectual superiority thanks to grammar and spelling. Next time, if there is a next time, I'll send you a message about it. It wasn't a cheap shot at all, though I do see how it came across that way. You have my apology for it.

The point I'm making in my post is that yes, there are instances of shoot first and ask questions later. Hell there's another thread on here about a cop who shot at another cop because he couldn't see him well and got scared. But what did the other cop do? Nothing. Didn't shoot back. I can't argue that it isn't a problem, and I don't.

At the same time, though, I don't like seeing posts that make it sound as if cops are running around shooting blindly all day, every day. Because the overwhelming majority of law enforcement isn't shooting anybody on any given day. No other first world country has the same set of problems that U.S. law enforcement has to deal with. There are poor decisions being made, and those decisions have life altering or life ending consequences sometimes. But a lot of right decisions are made that nobody ever hears about. Every day.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

I have a feeling this is sarcasm or at least I hope it is... I also pray you are never put in this situation because if so I don't think you have a chance in hell in making it out in one piece

If you have your own gun for self defense and have a FTF or a FTE a glock is not the best weapon to beat a suspect with.

You need a 1911 .45. as it is heavy and makes a real good club.

a reply to: beyondtruth

TorqueyThePig is a cop.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Trust me, you have not, nor will you ever manipulate my emotions.

Due to commonsense, I don't believe you...

You deleted two comments directed to me for "self policing reasons" as you detailed in reasons for edit box - care to explain why you responded and/or what those reasons were for the deletion...? Also, if that were not true, you would of not responded to state the above - your ego made you type your last comment. Let it marinate...

Also, my intention was NOT to manipulate your emotions but to implore you to project a more mature mindset, sensitivity and commonsense reasoning, which was greatly lacking in your first comment in this thread. You, being an officer, I find your thought process appalling. In fact, I find your first comment very immature for any adult no matter what their profession is. Again, your first comment had absolutely NOTHING to do with the OP and reflects a petty, biased and illogical mindset.

Also, anything else to add regarding my other talking points in my response about the police culture and crime statistics in the States when compared to other first world nations?

I would like to add that when I stated in my previous comment in reference to the video I posted: His adrenaline was pumping and make no mistake, if he had to light this guy up, he would of done it in a second, which is totally understandable from my POV.

I meant: Taser him. After all, how stupid and nonsensical would it be on the officer's part to shoot and kill a suicidal man who he was called there to prevent from actually happening?

Anyway, I believe you understood that is what I meant, but I just wanted to clear the air as I responded to your comment expressing your emotions were not manipulated.

Have a wonderful week.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Which has what to do with when there is a reason and people still complain?

I don't understand your question. I read it a few times and still do not comprehend the question. Please reword it, or expound on your thoughts and I will answer.

Idiots attacking idiots cheered on by idiots.
Yay.

originally posted by: beyondtruth
a reply to: TorqueyThePig

I have a feeling this is sarcasm or at least I hope it is... I also pray you are never put in this situation because if so I don't think you have a chance in hell in making it out in one piece

Uh, in that situation don't pray for Torquey, pray for the two thugs because they'd need it.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I'm not one of "those" people that runs around trying to score cheap feelings of intellectual superiority thanks to grammar and spelling. Next time, if there is a next time, I'll send you a message about it. It wasn't a cheap shot at all, though I do see how it came across that way. You have my apology for it.

Apology accepted my friend. Thank you for expressing empathy. You have a very kind nature about you. I find you a very intelligent person as well.

I would like to apologize for my cocky comment towards you as well. I can be arrogant at times. Sorry about that.

At the same time, though, I don't like seeing posts that make it sound as if cops are running around shooting blindly all day, every day. Because the overwhelming majority of law enforcement isn't shooting anybody on any given day. No other first world country has the same set of problems that U.S. law enforcement has to deal with. There are poor decisions being made, and those decisions have life altering or life ending consequences sometimes. But a lot of right decisions are made that nobody ever hears about. Every day.

I know most police ALL around the world, including the States, have good hearts and perform their duties with the highest integrity. I can only imagine how difficult a job it is being a police officer despite the fact two of my closest friends are Toronto constables, who often educate me on some matters that give me a slight glimpse into their world. There are very few jobs in this world that weigh heavily on the mind, body, and spirit on a daily basis and one of them is that of a police officer.

It is very easy for me to sit here and judge. Despite what some may perceive, I actually have much respect for the police. But, I do not respect the overall police culture in the States. Some of my bias arises from personal experiences of being unnecessarily harassed during my many times living off and on in the States. I have a lot of good stories as well of the police in the States, but the negative ones should not of happened at all, and do not make everything Ok. I have lived in many countries and experienced simple traffic stops in those countries that go very smoothly, but America, that was not always the case. I cannot for the life of me understand what "those particular " officers' problem was up until this day other than they were ego tripping for no reason.

I was never beaten or none of that crap by an officer in the States, but there have been times it came close to that due to their ignorant behaviour (unprofessional pissing contest they were initiating for no reason) as I was being courteous, polite, and accommodating every single one of their "demands" (I'm a notorious speed demon - I accept that and don't shy away from it when caught for speeding) until I had to remind them on those certain occasions they were dealing with a Canadian and they don't want that diplomatic mess: stop egging me on; write my ticket; and let me be on my way.

Also, I'm trained in Jeet Kune Do martial arts, so I always remain inwardly and outwardly composed, confident, and polite. If I did happen to experience a moment of insanity due to my ego being pressed to the point of engaging physically, it would be the responding back up officers that is going to shoot me or taser me, because the one in front of me that initiated it all would be unconscious. Make no mistake, I'm under NO delusion that I would come out on top or the better one in those situations. My ass will be handed to me regardless of my training. Also, I'm not that type of guy anyway. I don't act the fool or act up over alpha male sh!t.

However, those few times (again most of my police interaction in the U.S was positive) I can see that they were not playing fair, and honestly, it was not anger that arose from the unnecessary harassment, but it was hurt - "why attempt to do this to me; why are you putting me through all this when I'm complying politely with no attitude?" was my thought. Just do your job and let us both be on our way kind of thing - I'll pay it - I always do. Maybe one day I will share the details (create a thread) of those "traffic stops" and what transpired. But I mention this because it happens a lot to people in America, and people do lose their composure after a while of being treated in a less than human way, and sh#t does go down because of that, and it snowballs...

No other first world country has the same set of problems that U.S. law enforcement has to deal with.

I know and I feel you. My two buddies who are officers here in T.O have often said they would NEVER entertain the idea of being a police officer in the States. America is a very beautiful place with very beautiful people, yet the problems are very ugly that do not compare to other first world countries. This points to deeper issues of dysfunction that go beyond the police. Yet, there are many issues about policing in the States that affects the overall police culture, such as Sheriffs in the state of Louisiana who own private prisons and make more $ on incarcerating people than policing which in turn fuels a viscous cycle. The issues I speak about goes beyond just shootings or unnecessary harassment. The system, in my opinion, is corrupt and dysfunctional. Yet, most officers are good hearts.

Again, it's the police culture that is royally f'd up in the States and not the police themselves, despite the fact there is much examples of unprofessional behaviour and misconduct that should not be taking place that does not happen in other first world nations which paints an overall bad picture.

There are poor decisions being made, and those decisions have life altering or life ending consequences sometimes. But a lot of right decisions are made that nobody ever hears about. Every day.

There are a lot of right decisions made everyday by officers across the globe that nobody ever hears about because that is what they are paid to do. It's the bad decisions that MUST be heard because it is a violation of the code of conduct. I agree, American police make more good decisions than bad ones. But, they also make more bad decisions than any other first world nation despite the fact: No other first world country has the same set of problems that U.S. law enforcement has to deal with.

...And because that is very true, they should be making LESS bad decisions in order to curb the crime statistics. Forget shootings and show me where things like this happen on a consistent basis in other first world nations:

In the video below the driver was suffering from a stroke. In other first world countries they would of understood that it was medical emergency and helped him. Instead, in America, they peppered sprayed, tasered, pulled him out the car, laid him down face first on the pavement and handcuffed him.



In this video cop arrest firefighter as he is helping out at a crash site:



My friend, this ego driven stupidity does not happen in any other first world nation when policing is concerned.

I will allow you to sort this one out. This is not personal attack on you. Just showing you something that is not normal for the rest of us.