Dishonoring their own bodies between themselves

If the posters didn't expect an occasional dose of Christian doctrine in the Religion Forum, they should have skipped it.
Saint Paul was very much at odds with the anything-goes sexuality of the Roman world, don't kid yourself. Of course, after the Catholic Church took over everything, there were just as many gay people as before, but they could "pray the gay away" by becoming priests and monks, or so they thought.
a reply to: ChesterJohn

a reply to: markosity1973

all scripture including that written by inspiration by Paul.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

a reply to: Parthin96

priests and monks were not part of true "Biblical" Christianity.

Only Israel had a priesthood ordained of God.

Anyone care to gander at what was the truth they held in unrighteousness?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Anyone care to decipher what this is supposed to mean?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: markosity1973

all scripture including that written by inspiration by Paul.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

So you gonna listen to Paul, even when he contradicts Jesus?

Matthew 7:1

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.…

Jesus also said in John 14:6

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

But, hey if you want to contradict Jesus, it's your salvation you're risking

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Anyone care to gander at what was the truth they held in unrighteousness?

Whose "truth" and whose idea of "righteousness"?

The Bible's according to Catholics? Baptists? Evangelicals? Pentacostal? You?

Everybody has their own truth.

a reply to: markosity1973

failure to rightly divide leads a lot of supposed contradictions for those who fail to study the scriptures correctly.

If you follow the Gospel of the Kingdom then you are the one who risks their salvation.

the Failure is on you not the Bible, Paul or Christ Jesus.

a reply to: arpgme

it could only be that found in the preserved holy scriptures. Not of any creed, or sect.

God said he would keep/preserve his words to all generations. today's trade language is English has been since the establishment of the British Empire. So it is up to you to find the preserved scriptures and then study them. Right down the moral traits of God as found in them i.e. his righteousness, his holiness, his likes and dislikes, his truths etc. . .

Then you can answer your own questions according to his preserved words.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Exactly.

People interpret scripture incorrectly to suit biased agendas.

Mark 12:31

The second is equally important: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these."

Now you can't argue this one.

If you're gonna start judging, you had best start with yourself.

a reply to: markosity1973

First of all the scriptures are already interpreted.

Second to interpret an interpretation is reinterpretation.

Third you either believe what the scriptures say and to whom it is saying too or you'll end up applying something to someone else in the wrong way.

Fourth failure to study as The scriptures instruct you too in 2 Tim 2:15 will lead you to many errors and wrong application of doctrine.

Fifthly, If you disregard Paul's inspired words of God you ignore 2/3rds of the NT and that is tragic.

Lastly, Paul taught by inspiration that if we judge ourselves we would not be judged.

originally posted by: markosity1973
So you gonna listen to Paul, even when he contradicts Jesus?

Your problem is not with Paul.

Your problem is with the Lord Jesus Christ himself...

He is the one that all of us must answer to one day, not Paul.

Anyone who assumes errors in Scripture contradicts Christ to His face. He said of the whole Scripture and every single word of it “And Scripture cannot be broken.” Those who wish to restrict the inspiration of the Holy Scripture contradict the Apostle of Christ who testifies “All Scripture is inspired of God.”

Scripture Cannot be Broken

“Every word of God proves true” (Proverbs 30:5).

• To be Anti-Paul is to tear the living heart out of the New Testament.

• To be Anti Paul opens up a Pandora’s Box among people as to what is inspired in the Bible and what is not. The Canon is a sacred Ark, man’s unsanctified hands are not to touch it. Will this foolishness never end? QUESTIONING GOD’S WORD DENOTES UNBELIEF!

• To be Anti-Paul lays that person open to the full force of Rationalism, Modernism, and “doubt” far worse than any NEO-ORTHODOXY ever dreamed of!

• To be Anti-Paul is an outright denial of the Providence of God in settling and arranging the Canon of Scripture as we know it. Of this Scripture the God of Israel is most jealous! The whole question is: MAN’S MOUTH versus GOD’S WORD!

www.ensignmessage.com...

originally posted by: arpgme
Everybody has their own truth.

Everybody also has their own self refuting New Age "deepity"...

Is it objectively true that there is no objective truth?

It’s easy to see that all of these claims are illogical when applied to themselves. All one has to do is ask, “Is it objectively true that there is no objective truth?” or “If my reality is that the realities presented in this book are false does that make it true or false?”

New Age Relativism

Relativism is the philosophical position that all points of view are equally valid and that all truth is relative to the individual. But, if we look further, we see that this proposition is not logical. In fact, it is self refuting.

"All truth is relative."

• If the statement "All truth is relative" is true, then this would be a truth. If it is a truth, that means the statement "All truth is relative" is not relative. Therefore, not all truths are relative (since you claim your truth is not relative) and the statement that "All truth is relative" is false.

"There are no absolute truths. "

• The statement "There are no absolute truths" is an absolute statement which is supposed to be true. Therefore it is an absolute truth and "There are no absolute truths" is false.

• If there are no absolute truths, then you cannot believe anything absolutely at all, including that there are no absolute truths. Therefore, nothing could be really true for you - including relativism.

"What is true for you is not true for me. "

• If what is true for me is that relativism is false, then is it true that relativism is false?
• If you say no, then what is true for me is not true and relativism is false.
• If you say yes, then relativism is false.

"No one can know anything for sure. "

• If that is true, then we can know that we cannot know anything for sure which is self defeating.

"That is your reality, not mine. "

• Is my reality really real?
• If my reality is different than yours, how can my reality contradict your reality?
• If yours and mine are equally real, how can two opposite realities that exclude each other really exist at the same time?

"We all perceive what we want . "

• How do you know that statement is true?
• If we all perceive what we want, then what are you wanting to perceive?

Refuting Relativism

a reply to: ChesterJohn

That was very well done.

OP just stated the case concisely as it is laid out in Romans.

And stepped right out in to the light to face the hammering.

SnF

Just so y'all know;

Arrogance, back slapping and self congratulating does not make you right.....

a reply to: markosity1973

Marko, Can you add to what it maybe "dishonouring their own Bodies between one another" may be?

And if that dishonouring is part of God giving them over because they held the truth in unrighteousness, then what truth is it that is found in the Holy Scriptures?

We are not asking anyone about what they feel or think truth is, but what they read in Romans 1 as to what that truth is.

a reply to: Murgatroid

"That is your reality, not mine. "

• Is my reality really real?
• If my reality is different than yours, how can my reality contradict your reality?
• If yours and mine are equally real, how can two opposite realities that exclude each other really exist at the same time?

1. Yes, your reality is real to you and others who agree.
2. They contradict because everyone is in their own reality.
3. The same way every other reality exists at the same time.

Anita Moorjani who died from cancer, saw the other side and came back:

"The way I view life now, nothing exists in this world until we bring it into our consciousness/awareness. Nothing exists until we express it, either as an individual or as a collective. The more awareness we draw to something, the more real it becomes in the physical. As a collective, we are probably inadvertently creating our physical reality by default, unknowingly. But as individuals, we always have the choice to create differently than what is being created “out there”.

"Remember, I said that the universe is only a reflection of me."

She changed her own past. The test results were already done, but she chose the reality where she survived:

"I was made to understand that, as tests had been taken for my organ functions (and the results were not out yet), that if I chose life, the results would show that my organs were functioning normally. If I chose death, the results would show organ failure as the cause of death, due to cancer. I was able to change the outcome of the tests by my choice! "

"even though the tests were done, the results were dependant on my choice of whether to come back into life or not. That really changed my concept of time!"

- NDERF.org Anita M

We always have a choice in what will be in our reality, so this relates to the topic because, if you feel like being gay is a "sin" and people are "dishonoring their body", that is your truth and your reality, for people who feel differently, that isn't their reality.

Paul started the Romans letter by stating his purpose…a servant that was sent(apostle means someone sent) called and separated for the Gospel(good news ) of the creator God…….

“about his Son Yahoshua mashiach our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the FLESH”.

There is the cornerstone of Paul is about to state in Roman letter.Yahoshua a man according to the “flesh”(seed of David).The backbone of this is Paul says he is “preaching(proclaiming by statement) the gospel ..the good news.The Good news isn't to beat people into submission to religion.It is the freedom FROM religion.

Christianity has twisted the meaning of what Paul is saying by interpreting the Greek to fit their doctrines of men.
The phrase translated as “dishonor their bodies amongst themselves” is not what Christianity believes it means

.Paul is clearly talking about idols of the “flesh”..worshiping the creature images made like corruptible man,birds,four footed beast(quadrapeds) and creeping things(reptiles).Paul states the creator God gave up (unimpeded) the idolators through the lust of their heart (mind) to dishonor these bodies of flesh(the ones he just mentioned..man,birds quadrapeds reptiles..) because they revered(honored) the creature and not the creator.This type of idolatry led to the worship of Jesus as the creator God.

Paul saw the formation of Christianity morphing from the legalism of the Law adapted by the Jews from the Law of Moses to the nation of Israel.He knew this was just religious idolatry because he practiced that idolatry and taught it expertly for years!The roots of Judaism and eventually Christianity are of religious pagan origins.They all have a foundation of idolatry because that is the nature of religion to “revere” a God or Gods(Elohim) that is not the creator God.That is what a reprobate mind does.The revering(worship) is in the form of outward “laws” of religion that transform into idolatry. Unfortunately this is something those that are idolators cannot perceive because they sincerely believe their “idol” of God is a God......Nothing could be further from the truth.

Paul states how man twists these laws of religion (doctrines of men)to justify themselves and that religion is all futility.A person is going to “follow” the law they perceive (believe) because it is their nature (religion) and character (reprobate mind).Paul goes into lengthy detail about this with it all culminating in one statement. Religion is NOT God it is an idol of the mind that manifests itself outwardly in the worshippers acts and the Good news is…..it won’t always be so.Some people will begin(called the earnest/down payment of life/spirit) to be freed from the prison of their religion and enter into the kingdom of “their heavens”..i.e...their “right” mind….

He is emphasizing first and foremost it is in the mind(the principality and powers) of man and will manifest itself in idolatrous religious acts however these acts are meaningless and have ZERO to do with the creator God.The laws of religion cannot transform a person “nature” (religion) BY religion!!!He stated this every which way of Sunday YET billions of Christians cannot hear Paul at all.They twisted the writings of his letters into more Laws to be followed of their religion.They believe by studying the scriptures”correctly” they have life which is the exact opposite of what Yahoshua stated.

When Paul says the law is GOOD he is saying the “the law of truth” not the Law of Moses followed by the Israelites and Jews and cherry picked by Christianity’s religious agenda.Those were outward laws to justify the sanctification of the person by their religion.The law of truth sanctifies(separates from the profane) a person FROM religion.It is the transforming of the core nature of man which is religion to truth(reality) of LIFE.Paul was aware enough to know he had not been transformed he was only morphing(the earnest of the LIFE).However Pauls morphing was so prominent because he was the chief sinner(the most religious person) who ever lived(his words).However Paul was far from perfected(matured)

In other words Paul was not trying to “teach” people how to live a good life(he didn’t have a clue!) and how to achieve salvation/deliverance he was preaching you WILL be delivered from your religion because he experienced it first hand and was “being” delivered from his religion....He even states he was the chief sinner of all men.

The construct of mans religion is their nature and is an idol of the mind manifest in their body.Paul was addressing this very real issue that he had no religious solution .He he was stating by description a condition..he was not prescribing a cure because ALL will be cured of their religion BY the creator God .Man can do NOTHING on their own.The “dishonoring their bodies amongst themselves” is the religious condition of mankind creating idols of the mind manifesting in their bodily(material realm) experiences.

The proposed homosexual verses(1-26-27) is not about a homosexual lifestyle as Christianity extrapolated out of context.It is about idolatry and revering “man” whether than the creator God.Since Paul includes prostitution(poorly translated fornication) in the list (unrighteousness, prostitution, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful……. the idolators “reprobate mind” is filled with.

It is very obvious Paul is not talking about sexual lifestyles or practices (or orientation) at all…… he seldom does (and Yahoshua never did).This is about the Romans(Jews and Gentiles) that were idolatrous and how they were making creatures including Yahoshua into an idol according to the flesh the seed of David. Mankind’s nature of religion main action is to venerate “idols”.It all starts in the religious (reprobate) mind as laws and manifests itself in the body action…“dishonoring their bodies amongst themselves”......That is the religious smoking gun.

a reply to: Rex282

Thanks for your interpretation.

but of course you are not god, nor Paul, and so that is all any of this is - the interpretation of people 2000 years later who are trying to support their own points of view.

..accidental double post.