Center for Medical Progress

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: dawnstar

From what I've gathered over the last 6 pages is that the ends justify the means as long as it means getting rid of Planned Parenthood.

LOL

Sorry, But you truly sound like a cop crying that someone took a video of cops beating down a paraplegic in an electric wheelchair and then shooting said victim in the back after being tazed, and handcuffed in a place where it is illegal to film cops.


Bottom line: They are wrong, they got caught, they are on video tape.... That about covers it.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: windword

And killing babies is never right there is no agreement on this issue there is no common ground. We might as well not even discuss it because frankly no one is going to agree. So as far as I'm concerned you all who wish to kill babies can go on about your business. I on the other hand won't participate and won't be with a woman who would. Life however small,or insignificant has value.

A terrific attitude but completely off-topic. Therefore I must assume that you agree with and supportthe tactics used to misrepresent and distort the facts and the perpertrators who did so.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: SpaDe_
a reply to: kaylaluv

Oh, so edited = fake now! Got it! So that documentary I watched on global warming was all fake then, because it was obviously edited. Glad about that, was almost worried there for a minute.

I have a question. If there is a video of me saying, "I am NOT for nuclear war," and someone got a hold of that video and edited it to say, "I am for nuclear war," would you consider that fake or authentic?

Very nice and simple example of why 'tapes' are not admissible in Courts.

I admire your patience.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: SpaDe_
a reply to: kaylaluv

Oh, so edited = fake now! Got it! So that documentary I watched on global warming was all fake then, because it was obviously edited. Glad about that, was almost worried there for a minute.

I have a question. If there is a video of me saying, "I am NOT for nuclear war," and someone got a hold of that video and edited it to say, "I am for nuclear war," would you consider that fake or authentic?

Very nice and simple example of why 'tapes' are not admissible in Courts.

I admire your patience.

Apparently they were allowed when the courts put on the injunctions.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not wading through the same gang banging rhetoric to see if this was posted but though you might be interested. [Link]

And this is long but pretty informative, particularly the section on possible CMP collusion with the GOP. [Link]

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: greencmp

Perspective you say? More like relative.

Whatever. Abortion is the best responsible solution to child neglect, starvation, disease and abuse.

How about not getting pregnant in the first place?

So you do agree with the methods used by CMP to obtain, edit and release the video? A simple yes or no answer is sufficient.

This young man set up a sham company, passed himself off as an employee of a 'procement' company for medical research. The PP people thought they were speaking (off the record and colliquely - medical people can be quite dark in their speech amongst their own) with members of the medical research community (a flat out lie).

Then the conversations were taped without knowledge of consent were heavily edited in a biased manner to create the 'appearance' of wrongdoing.

In last week's video, Nucatola discusses how the group sometimes provides tissue from aborted fetuses for medical research. That conversation, over wine and lunch, was with two actors posing as purchasers of fetal organs and was recorded last July, according to the center.

A nine-minute excerpt the center posted online shows Nucatola saying her organization charges $30 to $100 for such procedures. But in the full version lasting more than two hours, she repeatedly says those prices only cover the procedures' costs, are not for profit and are only performed with the patient's consent.

www.usnews.com...

Here is brief background checking into Biomax Procurement:

rhrealitycheck.org...

Here is a one sheet on D Daleidens:

www.weeklystandard.com...

And from MediaMatters:

mediamatters.org...

Center For Medical Progress Has A Small And Recent Internet Footprint. CMP's presence online was nearly non-existent until several weeks ago. The group's Facebook page shows no posts before May 24 of this year and the organization didn't join Twitter until May 30. No videos other than the deceptively edited Planned Parenthood clips appear on the group's YouTube site. The website address listed on their Facebook page leads to a PostalAnnex+ in Irvine, CA instead of real organization. [Facebook.com, Accessed 7/15/15; Twitter.com, Accessed 7/15/15, YouTube.com, Accessed 7/15/15; Yelp.com, Accessed 7/15/15]

I can't seem to find any 'real' information on who is paying for all of this other then other - anti-abortionists and groups.

Again - You agree with how they lied, cheated and perhaps even stole to get the footage they did and then heavily edited the content to suit an agenda.

I want to repeat - before moving on - that Planned Parenthood's services are 97 in birth control, STD & Cancer screening and treatment and other general care to low income and poorly served women and children.

To agree with Windword - care about the children that are actually in the world, they need your help. Call out the real 'baby-killers' of endless war, famine and disease.

I've got to go - this is giving me a headache.

This is a bone fide conspiracy. A fake company set-up with misrepresented (some actors) employees seeking medical research samples over the course of years. The text book definition of conspiracy folks.

I want to know more about who, specifically, is funding these groups - but being non profits their 'donors' are hidden.

It's disgusting, these tactics are disgusting and resorting to them is pitiful.

I don't mind if you are anti-abortion and deluded about the success of 'absenence only' birth-control. It's the campaign by mostly right wing folk to FORCE their morality on to others that disgusts me. The hypocracy of 'cherishing life' before it's born and not after, the support of the death penalty, and forcing the poor on to the streets and into crime, the endless wars of agression, all things that kill more actual live children then do abortions of early unwanted children.

a reply to: FyreByrd

The government needs to stop these people.

I don't think the OP understands (and correct me if I'm wrong) that there are many of us who simply don't care if CMP broke the law.

We don't care if CMP is "on the up and up", because they're exposing an organization that murders people and sells their body parts.

Some of us can't stop laughing when you accuse CMP of being "unethical".

Is this "the ends justifying the means"? Yes. And I don't care. You may find in life that the axiom "ends justifying the means" cannot be universally applied as a yardstick in the field of ethics.

Sometimes they in fact do, as we are seeing now.

And I'm enjoying every minute of it.

a reply to: NthOther

What you say has never really been in dispute. Many of us understand quite well that you and others don't care about context and law.

Abortion (killing babies) is legal (upheld by the supreme court) and it is also legal to donate (sell) the tissue to research labs (also legal).

I find it funny that you guys are getting all emotional and worked-up over it and while you believe the ends justify the means, you seem to forget that the "ends" may amount to nothing. It's ok if they lie and manipulate video as long as nothing comes out of it?

Perhaps if this issue was approached in a different way, they could have made a significant change in the hearts of people, but that is not the case.

So I find it sad that you believe "the ends justify the means", when there may be no "ends" at all.

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
a reply to: Krazysh0t


The connection David Daleiden with people and groups with shared views is normal. His convictions to prove his beliefs that wrong doing is occurring. Is similar to other people with strong convictions are doing and have done. Green peace, sierra club , Peta , Human Society of America and others . All have secretly taped things while under false pretense . Some good has come of it pollution halted we are not being fed downer cows and ships cant toss barrels of toxic waste over the side .

You are saying this like somehow I'm going to agree with lying to get your way to increase government oversight.

Im going to wait for investigations to decide this rather than kill the messenger . Or support PP .

Believe political spin A
or
Believe political spin B

Investigating the credibility of the messenger isn't "killing the messenger". It's making sure you can trust the damn message in the first place. I wish you guys would understand that difference. You brought up PETA. Well I hate that organization too. I hate their tactics and I hate when people try to lie about things to try to get their way.

If you have a good idea, and it's TRULY a good idea, then you shouldn't have to be deceptive to get your way.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: dawnstar

From what I've gathered over the last 6 pages is that the ends justify the means as long as it means getting rid of Planned Parenthood.

LOL

Sorry, But you truly sound like a cop crying that someone took a video of cops beating down a paraplegic in an electric wheelchair and then shooting said victim in the back after being tazed, and handcuffed in a place where it is illegal to film cops.


Bottom line: They are wrong, they got caught, they are on video tape.... That about covers it.

Bottom line: No they aren't. No they didn't. The tapes are edited messes... That about covers it. You should go reread the OP.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not wading through the same gang banging rhetoric to see if this was posted but though you might be interested. [Link]

And this is long but pretty informative, particularly the section on possible CMP collusion with the GOP. [Link]

Good STUFF! Finally someone brings some juicy evidence to the table.

THIS really pisses me off:

Suspicions regarding possible coordination and collusion between the CMP and GOP leadership was raised as soon as the first video was released — and seemingly timed to correspond with a House vote regarding a bill that would have created a commemorative coin to benefit breast cancer research and support services. Half of the funds raised by the coin were set to go to Susan G. Komen for the Cure, the breast cancer education, research, advocacy, and health and support services organization. Komen, however, gives grants to Planned Parenthood to conduct breast cancer screenings for women who are oftentimes unable to afford or access this type of care.

On the Tuesday morning of the first video’s release, the bill had 307 co-sponsors in Congress, including 142 Republicans. By Tuesday afternoon, following the release of the video, enough congressional Republicans had rescinded their support for the bill to effectively die it before it could even begin — purportedly because of their desire to not show support for an organization that funds Planned Parenthood (and, per the video’s unfounded allegations, the illegal sale of fetal organs).

CMP are evil!

originally posted by: NthOther
I don't think the OP understands (and correct me if I'm wrong) that there are many of us who simply don't care if CMP broke the law.

I said this on page 6:

From what I've gathered over the last 6 pages is that the ends justify the means as long as it means getting rid of Planned Parenthood.

Trust me. I understand COMPLETELY that you don't care if CMP broke the law. That's why you guys are SOOOO hypocritical and likely won't get your way.

We don't care if CMP is "on the up and up", because they're exposing an organization that murders people and sells their body parts.

Some of us can't stop laughing when you accuse CMP of being "unethical".

Yeah, except PP didn't break any laws with what they are doing.

Is this "the ends justifying the means"? Yes. And I don't care. You may find in life that the axiom "ends justifying the means" cannot be universally applied as a yardstick in the field of ethics.

Uh... yeah. It can when you have actual integrity and are ethical.

Sometimes they in fact do, as we are seeing now.

Not really. PP won't end up defunded and more people are waking up to the sham that CMP is pushing. This is going to blow over with y'all just pissed off and nothing accomplished. Heck, I hope some Republicans lose some seats for backing CMP, but that is just a wish of mine.

And I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Really? Because no investigation of PP is underway and the defunding vote isn't succeeding in Congress. In fact, the only investigations occurring are actually against CMP. You may want to actually become a bit more informed as to the current events because your side isn't winning right now. Y'all are just making a lot of noise. But loudness isn't a measure of success.

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Flatfish

The deflections and nervous reactions are enough for me.

Thank You !!

At the very least, the CMP group responsible for producing and propagating this piece of garbage should be investigated for both, intent and truth of content and IMO, prosecuted for slander and/or defamation of character.

.

Do you really believe no one is investigating the legalities of CMP??

If there was any legal way to shut CMP down they would be shut down already.

PP has very powerful friends, and many people with lots of cash who would LOVE to shut CMP down if they could.

I am very surprised there hasn't been a complete injunction against CMP yet, legal or not.

That there tells you CMP has covered their butts pretty well regarding legalities.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: greencmp
That's a good question.

I don't suppose I do trust them but then, I don't trust any organization. It honestly didn't occur to me that it was relevant.

It's very relevant. Many are trying to disregard PP's defenses against the allegations as lies based on them TRUSTING the information originating from CMP.

Ratiocinatively, I guess I have concluded that they have very little to gain from fraud considering what lengths they have gone to and the moral imperative that underpins their activity.

Then why can we show that they are committing fraud to present the evidence? Again, look at all the information I presented in the OP.

I could very well be proven wrong, all of us could but, I can't say that I haven't picked a side.

What happened to picking the side of justice no matter WHO ends up being the injust? So many pro-lifers are pretending like they are on the side of justice because PP performs abortions. So they use this flimsy evidence to confirm their preexisting biases or as a springboard to attack PP, but that isn't justice. That is just mob rule. JUSTICE requires you to be honest about ALL sides of the argument and be willing to defend even the supposedly undefendable.

Boston Massacre

Eight soldiers, one officer, and four civilians were arrested and charged with murder. Defended by the lawyer and future American president, John Adams, six of the soldiers were acquitted, while the other two were convicted of manslaughter and given reduced sentences. The men found guilty of manslaughter were sentenced to branding on their hand. Depictions, reports, and propaganda about the event, notably the colored engraving produced by Paul Revere (shown at right), further heightened tensions throughout the Thirteen Colonies.

We have obviously reached opposite conclusions.

Well you appear not to be addressing the evidence I've presented against CMP, so I can't say that I know why.

I am sure there are MANY, maybe even hundreds of lawyers who have gone over the info in your OP as well as much more.

CMP is still legally posting their videos.

So your 'evidence' shows nothing illegal yet. Give them time though, I am sure they will find some reason to shut CMP down.

a reply to: stosh64

That there tells you CMP has covered their butts pretty well regarding legalities.

Not really. It appears that there is quite a lot happening in the courts regarding this issue. There is a hearing on August 19th concerning the temporary restraining order in place against CMP and they are waiting for a court date to begin to address the recording laws that CMP may have violated. They are also seeking charges of receiving stolen property and conversion. (that means theft)

So it seems that CMP may be in a bit of trouble. PP has not even begun to join the lawsuits. Those charges above are just from StemExpress. PP may be waiting for CMP to continue to hang itself. We will have to wait and see.

But so far, it does not look good for CMP.

a reply to: introvert

I am aware and time will tell.

Just saying if the evidence was as cut and dry as the OP would lead us to believe they would be shut down already.

CMP has had major, powerful enemies from day one and they are still legally posting their videos.

PP has not even begun to join the lawsuits.

To me that is very telling.

a reply to: stosh64

Just saying if the evidence was as cut and dry as the OP would lead us to believe they would be shut down already.

Not true. Things take time. Due process.

CMP has had major, powerful enemies from day one and they are still legally posting their videos.

Who are those enemies. Can you provide names please?

To me that is very telling.

Yes it is. Considering that PP is no stranger to lawsuits and defending itself, they may be allowing CMP to hang themselves before taking the to court.

We will have to see. There is no use in suing someone until they are done violating the law....if they have.

originally posted by: stosh64

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: greencmp
That's a good question.

I don't suppose I do trust them but then, I don't trust any organization. It honestly didn't occur to me that it was relevant.

It's very relevant. Many are trying to disregard PP's defenses against the allegations as lies based on them TRUSTING the information originating from CMP.

Ratiocinatively, I guess I have concluded that they have very little to gain from fraud considering what lengths they have gone to and the moral imperative that underpins their activity.

Then why can we show that they are committing fraud to present the evidence? Again, look at all the information I presented in the OP.

I could very well be proven wrong, all of us could but, I can't say that I haven't picked a side.

What happened to picking the side of justice no matter WHO ends up being the injust? So many pro-lifers are pretending like they are on the side of justice because PP performs abortions. So they use this flimsy evidence to confirm their preexisting biases or as a springboard to attack PP, but that isn't justice. That is just mob rule. JUSTICE requires you to be honest about ALL sides of the argument and be willing to defend even the supposedly undefendable.

Boston Massacre

Eight soldiers, one officer, and four civilians were arrested and charged with murder. Defended by the lawyer and future American president, John Adams, six of the soldiers were acquitted, while the other two were convicted of manslaughter and given reduced sentences. The men found guilty of manslaughter were sentenced to branding on their hand. Depictions, reports, and propaganda about the event, notably the colored engraving produced by Paul Revere (shown at right), further heightened tensions throughout the Thirteen Colonies.

We have obviously reached opposite conclusions.

Well you appear not to be addressing the evidence I've presented against CMP, so I can't say that I know why.

I am sure there are MANY, maybe even hundreds of lawyers who have gone over the info in your OP as well as much more.

Maybe, but that is irrelevant. This topic is for US to talk about. Not a bunch of lawyers. Why is this point even relevant? If there is nothing to discuss, then prove it. Don't distract with some meaningless rhetoric about how OTHERS have already looked at the information for you. Look at it your damn self and come to your own conclusions. Don't let others do it for you.

CMP is still legally posting their videos.

Yes, but you are ignoring the fact that two separate states have opened up cases against CMP.

So your 'evidence' shows nothing illegal yet. Give them time though, I am sure they will find some reason to shut CMP down.

Well at least we agree on that.