The REALITY of Marriage Equality

a reply to: mOjOm

Its true you see homosexuality in nature, it is a trait caused by desire to mate where dominance thwarts attempt to breed due to immaturity, a lack of availability or Confusion due to birth defect

originally posted by: SPECULUM
a reply to: mOjOm

Its true you see homosexuality in nature, it is a trait caused by desire to mate where dominance thwarts attempt to breed due to immaturity, a lack of availability or Confusion due to birth defect

Actually, no. Availability isn't a primary cause of it at all. The challenge of finding a mate doesn't push one toward an easier more available same sex relationship. If that was the case you'd see much more of it in the wild. It is also engaged in even when one has a mate as well. It also isn't only about sex or breeding in every instance. Sometimes it is about long term companionship with sexual activity being a very minor role.

For the most part it is only with humans that such stigmas are even considered important or significant. Many other animals in nature, even extremely highly developed mammals such as dolphins have no such defined sexuality. It can be very fluid and change from one moment to the next even.

Calling it a birth defect is also incorrect. Statistically speaking the chance of giving birth to a male homosexual increases with each male born from the same mother. This implies that it is actually a function of procreation itself with the natural order defined by nature. At the same time, females have a different reaction to homosexuality than men do which is identified by brain scans. This would indicate that males are much more hardwired toward a sexual preference than women either by birth or society stigma or both.

You obviously find homosexuality to be wrong personally and maybe even on religious grounds too but I don't think you're up to speed with the complexity of human sexuality and have simply gone for the easy answers that support your bias.

a reply to: mojom Honestly i find Sexual homosexuality nothing more than a perversion.

Having a love for a person of the same sex isn't an unnatural act, but at the moment it crosses a line where sexual stimuli is introduced, then it becomes an unnatural act...not including common homosexual practices that are widely known throughout history and the dangers associated with them

And Again
Marriage is between a man and a woman to ensure the legitimacy of child bearing before the eyes of god and the state.
otherwise we would have a world full of undocumented lil bastards running around causing chaos and messing with the tax collectors


Therefor gay marriage has no legitimacy due to no spousal procreated children...Except for tax collection purposes

originally posted by: SPECULUM
a reply to: mojom Honestly i find Sexual homosexuality nothing more than a perversion.

Ya, I kinda figured that out on my own but thanx for reminding me. That is understandable too to a point since I'm assuming you're a straight male. As a straight male myself the idea of two males having sex offends me too. So I don't engage in it, but I also don't let it bother me either. It is what it is. I don't find it any more repulsive than say two really old people having sex either.

However, I feel totally different about two woman having sex though. How do you feel about two women together??

Having a love for a person of the same sex isn't an unnatural act, but at the moment it crosses a line where sexual stimuli is introduced, then it becomes an unnatural act...not including common homosexual practices that are widely known throughout history and the dangers associated with them

What makes it unnatural??? How can it be unnatural since it comes from nature??? Homosexuality is from nature itself. We did not invent it.

What do you mean by "not including common homosexual practices"???

a reply to: mojom

Well. I'm quite perverted when it comes to 2 women, as long they aren't offensively gross

I cant legally go into description of the disgusting things they do to each other... on ats, so we'll leave that to the internet and imagination for reference

originally posted by: SPECULUM
a reply to: mojom

Well. I'm quite perverted when it comes to 2 women, as long they aren't offensively gross

I cant legally go into description of the disgusting things they do to each other... on ats, so we'll leave that to the internet and imagination for reference

Ok, so this points out that homosexuality itself isn't exactly the issue here with you. What you have issue with is certain forms of homosexual activity. Specifically the type that you personally don't find appealing. However, other forms of homosexual activity you obviously have no problem with.

However, you've taken a position of opposing all forms of homosexuality in a political sense and even opposing same sex marriage because you think homosexuality is a perversion and against god and the state and even nature itself. But that is only because you are only thinking in terms of what you don't agree with when there is obviously much more to it that you are simply ignoring.

a reply to: mojom

I'm not ignoring anything, i'm quite aware of all the intricacies of the human condition, as i'm now an old man and have experience and seen much of the world in all its twisted glory.

There's nothing anyone can tell me about homosexuality, as i have an older gay sibling and have been subjected to all the complexities of their life and their group associations, not including having worked with gays for years in California.

Very Disturbing and Destructive, more so than heterosexuals

originally posted by: SPECULUM
a reply to: mojom

I'm not ignoring anything, i'm quite aware of all the intricacies of the human condition, as i'm now an old man and have experience and seen much of the world in all its twisted glory.

There's nothing anyone can tell me about homosexuality, as i have an older gay sibling and have been subjected to all the complexities of their life and their group associations, not including having worked with gays for years in California.

Very Disturbing and Destructive, more so than heterosexuals

Your own personal experiences do not make up the whole of reality however. We all have associations with different groups and people throughout our lives and even though I experience one thing someone else will experience something different. The idea that you can simply use just your own perspective to completely classify such large groups of society is crazy. Things just aren't that simple. Do you think of your gay sibling as a birth defect as well???

BTW, thinking that you know everything about something only assures that you'll never learn anything new about it.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Lightworth

You have a lengthy paragraph about how "...bigots/homophobes tend to generalize all or most homosexuals".

You are generalizing all the people who disagree with homosexuality as bigots and homophobes. I am not a bigot and I am certainly not afraid. I simply do not believe that homosexuality is what was intended in the grand design. One look at the genetalia of the species makes it fairly clear what the intent, and outcome, of union should be. Just because two men or two women can do something together does not necessarily equate to the fact that they should.

Personally, I am tired of being branded a homophobe because I disagree with homosexuality. That is the LGBT group trying to empower themselves at my expense by presenting themselves as "better" than me. Its about equality, not greater than, right?

Sorry, but I disagree with your opinion. I think homosexuality is perverse by definition. One of the definitions is, "Having an effect that is opposite to what is intended or expected." Again, the male and female are obviously meant to work together, the end result is procreation. To intentionally manipulate that into something of personal gratification with no expectation of the intended result is, by definition, perverse.

Does that qualify as proof, or is the dictionary a bigoted homophobe?

BUMP!

I have nothing to add right now, but your post speaks for my personal opinion in this whole travesty/controversy.
Later, I'll have more to say, but in the meantime.......I bump your post.

originally posted by: mojom

originally posted by: SPECULUM
a reply to: mojom

I'm not ignoring anything, i'm quite aware of all the intricacies of the human condition, as i'm now an old man and have experience and seen much of the world in all its twisted glory.

There's nothing anyone can tell me about homosexuality, as i have an older gay sibling and have been subjected to all the complexities of their life and their group associations, not including having worked with gays for years in California.

Very Disturbing and Destructive, more so than heterosexuals

Your own personal experiences do not make up the whole of reality however. We all have associations with different groups and people throughout our lives and even though I experience one thing someone else will experience something different. The idea that you can simply use just your own perspective to completely classify such large groups of society is crazy. Things just aren't that simple. Do you think of your gay sibling as a birth defect as well???

BTW, thinking that you know everything about something only assures that you'll never learn anything new about it.

Ive got a pretty rounded perspective on things, and truly i do see birth defect as a factor.
many Suicides and mental problems within many groups throughout many communities..extreme violence, extreme jealousy, Broken relations and friendship. Extreme Filth. loss and heartache associated..incurable disease and death.

I see nothing more at this time than a monetarily motivated promotional lobbying agenda in use of unaware victims of their own sexuality and desire to be free. Homosexuals wont even admit they are being used to line the pockets and agendas of their masters...its extremely pathetic and sad

a reply to: SPECULUM

Given your enlightened perspective on things ... you must be really excited to be old and weak and eyeing death.

Since you're no longer productive, that is, if you ever were, others younger and more virile, need your resources.

Honestly, your views here read like some elementary school book report on social darwinism. You seem to like to pretend that you're some high-end predator, while really, you're pretty low in evolutionary importance, growing less important every day.

a reply to: SPECULUM

You do know we can still have Children right? what about men and women who are sterile,do you have pent up hate against them too?

Still haven't seen anything that refutes particularly the first sentence (thesis statement) of my OP regarding proof. Proof is that which is beyond compelling evidence; it's solid scientific or otherwise verifiable FACT. There's no RATIONAL way to place homosexuality/bisexuality in psychological disorders like schizophrenia, severe depression, OCD, bipolar disorder etc., and any other claim of aberration or wrongdoing is also mere opinion, belief, not established truth. And to those who claim there is a necessarily procreative imperative in marriage -- at least NOW in this highly populated world -- please read the last paragraph of the OP, and read or re-read the whole thing if desired.

a reply to: Lightworth
You require proof however offer none; full circle, your move.

a reply to: notmyrealname

OK, semantics. How about BURDEN of proof? The issue is and very much should be framed within the context of being like a court case, as in "innocent until PROVEN guilty," or even more basically, considered equally human with inalienable rights unless PROVEN aberrant or mentally ill.

EDIT: Getting ready for a long day of work, first in the yard then at my job. Will check back sometime this evening (US Central Time).

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: SPECULUM

You do know we can still have Children right? what about men and women who are sterile,do you have pent up hate against them too?

Most homosexuals are selfish, self absorbed, self preservators, who have no room in their lives for children, because just trying to keep a relationship requires all that they're willing to give.

Many factors can cause sterility, mostly birth defect. I understand their grief, they deserve my respect

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: SPECULUM

Given your enlightened perspective on things ... you must be really excited to be old and weak and eyeing death.

Since you're no longer productive, that is, if you ever were, others younger and more virile, need your resources.

Honestly, your views here read like some elementary school book report on social darwinism. You seem to like to pretend that you're some high-end predator, while really, you're pretty low in evolutionary importance, growing less important every day.

I did my job and have earned my right at the head of the table. my passing shall be glorious with no regrets or further desire

originally posted by: SPECULUM

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: SPECULUM

You do know we can still have Children right? what about men and women who are sterile,do you have pent up hate against them too?

Most homosexuals are selfish, self absorbed, self preservators, who have no room in their lives for children, because just trying to keep a relationship requires all that they're willing to give.

Many factors can cause sterility, mostly birth defect. I understand their grief, they deserve my respect

Most HUMANS are selfish, self absorbed, self preservators.

There, fixed that for ya.

a reply to: SPECULUM

Sounds like you're just whislin' past the graveyard to me! Good luck with that.

More directly, your comments on the evolution and socio-biological function/incidence of homosexuality are simply incorrect:

Live Science Article - Evolutionary Value of Homosexuality

Evolution myths debunked: "Natural Selection cannot Explain Homosexuality"

... and so on.

I hope, in the time you have left, you take the opportunity to leave the 19th century behind in your thought. Of course, you're free to maintain whatever backwards opinions appeal to you.

Americans (competent adult Americans*) have the freedom to love whom they choose (other competent adult Americans*), and enter into contracts with whom they choose and that includes marriage contracts.

That's not going to change.

*Edit

Addendum required for the irrational and reality challenged ... competent adult Americans does not include:

1) the dead
2) any species other than human
3) children
4) furniture
5) any other ludicrous BS suggestion that is only making the ones commenting look more and more like darn fools.