The REALITY of Marriage Equality

a reply to: Gryphon66

You don't dictate the opinion but if my opinion differs from yours in any way I am automatically a bigot in your eyes. That is not the case. I can disagree with something and not be as extreme as a bigot. The fact that I wont abandon my beliefs for you is something you have to deal with. It is not stubborn bigotry on my part, it is a failed effort on your part to assert your beliefs onto me. Something you have no right to do.

There is no empty whining, just something you desperately need to ignore.

"Unnatural" is your term. I have not used it once. Perverse is straight from the dictionary, a fact you also want to ignore. There are more than one definition of the word perverse. Its not just the one you choose to assert.

No, that is NOT the definition of being bigoted. My God, get a dictionary already. I will try to explain this so even you can understand it. There is a scale of disagreement ranging from the minimally casual to the absolute extreme. A minimally casual disagreement would be something along the lines of, "I accept LGBT people but I think walking down the middle of main street once a year exposing yourself is a bit much." That is disagreeing with something the LGBT community actually does but does not enter into the arena of hate. The other end is the bigot who chases people down the street shouting insults at them, throwing rocks at them, burning their houses down, and committing acts of violence in the name of what they consider right. The critical word in defining a bigot is extreme. I can disagree with you any time I want to and I don't owe you anything in return for it. If you don't like it, that's too bad. But you do not get to automatically lump me in with the lunatic extremists called bigots for doing so. There is a difference and you need to acknowledge that.

And if you have any functioning brain cells at all, you will return to my original post which clearly states my objection is not to gay marriage or homosexuals in general, but being lumped in and labeled a bigot because I simply disagree. I can believe marriage should be between a man and a woman and still have room enough to allow gay marriage to happen. Yet another fact you desperately need to ignore.

If you don't understand that, there is no hope for you. And if you don't understand that your actions here have been more extreme than mine, then you are in denial.

It cant be any more clear. Simple disagreement does not constitute bigotry. If it did, every time people disagreed to any degree about anything, they would both automatically be bigots. And that is my second point. How can you so stubbornly cling to your idea that just because I disagree with you that I must be a bigot but when you disagree with me you are not? Why doesn't that rule apply to you also? The answer is, it does, but you are too blinded by your agenda to admit it. Again, as I stated in the last post, its not enough that I can accept gay marriage, I have to completely abandon my beliefs in favor of yours or I will forever be labeled a bigot. YOU DONT GET TO MAKE THAT DECISION. And if you do, then so do I. And guess what? You are a bigot too. :-)

Sorry you have to legitimize your beliefs by labeling anyone who disagrees with you, even to the slightest degree, a bigot. If that is what gets you through the night, then have at it. Just don't mistake your desperate need to believe that you are a victim to anyone who has an opinion other than your own with being right.

Why do I care if others think I am a bigot? Because I am not.

Why do you care if others think marriage should be between a man and a woman but are willing to accept same sex couples also? Remember, just because they don't agree with it doesn't mean they wont allow it. (Something you have missed from the very start here.)

a reply to: Darth_Prime

I would think that getting fired over sexual issues is about the worst form of harassment there can be.

I never thought about it but I guess I don't have federal protection either. If my bass is gay and he fires me to hire another gay person I have no recourse either.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

I got a dictionary, and you are wrong.

bigot
ˈbɪɡət/
noun
noun: bigot; plural noun: bigots

a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

You seem to fit this definition extremely well. You don't need to be preaching violence or hatred of others, you just need to express intolerance toward others.

In this definition, many of us are probably bigots in one way or another, for example I am intolerant of the intolerant religious nutters who seem to think the rest of society should adhere to their moral rules. I'm intolerant of people who treat others with disrespect simply because they have the excuse of their "holy book". I'm intolerant of the Taliban, the Westboro cult, preachers, "Christians" who call themselves loving while being wholly rotten from the inside out.

You, my dear, are a bigot toward LGBT people.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I never thought about it but I guess I don't have federal protection either. If my bass is gay and he fires me to hire another gay person I have no recourse either.

Yes you do, that's covered under unfair dismissal laws.
Unlike LGBT people who cannot use such laws in many states because it is perfectly legal there to fire someone for being LGBT.

It's not legal in most states just to fire someone because you want to, it is legal in many states to fire someone SPECIFICALLY because they are LGBT.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Nope, you're a bigot in society's eyes when you act like a bigot, I've just been trying to explain it to you, since you're feigning a lack of understanding.

If you "disagree" with the innate qualities (race, national origin, sex, sexual orientation) of other normal human adults, and insist on making public announcements of same, that's bigotry. I didn't come up with the definition, society did.

I'm not projecting my beliefs onto you. The definition of bigotry in our culture is a fact, and you keep providing example after example of it in your posts. Others here have told you this as well, and I'm certain, that if you routinely act this way in your real life, folks have told you there too.

... and not unexpectedly, now you're trying to be personally insulting, intimating that I lack the intelligence or "brain cells" to understand or comprehend what you're saying. Aside from the very clear description of your actions as bigoted, have I insulted you personally in any way here? No?

Have you personally told me on several occasions that I'm warped, unnatural, and now mentally challenged? Yes?

See the difference?

"Exposing ourselves in public?" Excuse me? I've never done that, and neither has any other gay person I know. Yet you're assigning public indecency to the LGBT community at large ... and still proclaiming that you're not a bigot.

Speaking of dictionaries, let's check a couple, eh?

bigot, Merriam-Webster Online: : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance. (Link)

bigot, The Free Dictionary: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. (Link)

Simple disagreement does not denote bigotry. You aren't simply disagreeing with a statement or opinion; you're publicly stating, again and again, your prejudice and disdain for an entire CLASS of people, and by doing so you are, whether you realize it or not, acting in an insulting and demeaning way toward members of that class.

You're being dishonest, and you're trying to claim I've said things and done things that I haven't.

How does that square with your "beliefs" or do the rules only apply to everyone else but you?

Why do I care if others think marriage should only be between a man and a woman? Because until June 26, 2015, that belief was incorporated into law that restricted me from marrying my committed partner of 8 years, which denies us many benefits and legal rights that were freely available to other American citizens thereby making us second-class citizens and denying us equal protection under the laws.

If you don't want to be called a bigot, don't make bigoted statements. It's really not that hard.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Vroomfondel


I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman. I believe the two genders working together to create life is not an accident. If you disagree, fine. That doesn't make you right.

Yes it does.

That does not make me a hater or a bigot.

Yes it does.



I've said it multiple times but you simply can't see it: What you're doing is no different than a racist who doesn't think he's racist.

Everybody else knows... but you're too deluded to realize it yourself.

Keep playing the victim, though... it's working so well for you.

This is perhaps the most base argument from the homosexualists...comparing themselves to blacks who experienced segregation. Perhaps this is the reason blacks not only overwhelmingly disapprove of faux marriage, they disapprove of homosexuals in general.


Newsflash to the intolerant bigots:

Race is not a choice.

Behavior is a choice.

We are not free to discriminate against a man because of the color of his skin.

We are free to discriminate against a man because of his immoral and deviant behavior - although that is quickly being criminalized.

a reply to: Seamrog

So, I'm free to discriminate against you as a result of your continual hatred and judgement expressed here in direct disobedience to the instructions of your Lord Jesus?

I'm free to discriminate against you as a result of your repeated lies and "bearing false witness" against me and mine in direct disobedience to the commandments of your Lord YHVH?

I'm free to discriminate against you if I catch you eating shrimp, or wearing two kinds of cloth, or not avoiding your wife during her menses each month, in direct disobedience to the words of the Law?

Huh ... good to know.

Thank goodness I don't ascribe to your Neolithic grab-bag of neurotic delusional claptrap!

I prefer not to. I would prefer it if you stopped saying such hurtful things, particularly to folks like Darth ... but that still doesn't make me want to discriminate against you.

/shrug

a reply to: Rocker2013


That is ONE definition as I stated earlier. Not the one I chose. You are wrong.

big•ot
(ˈbɪg ət)
n.
a person who is extremely intolerant of another's creed, belief, or opinion.

Sounds like you, doesn't it?

...religious nutters who seem to think the rest of society should adhere to their moral rules.

And there we have it. The last gasp of a liberal when confronted with undeniable truth - resort to personal insults. Your true colors are showing. :-) And all the while you are completely blind to the fact that you are doing exactly the same thing to me. Wow, you really are deluded.

You are far more rabid bigot than I could ever be if for no other reason than the fact that I can allow for your belief to exist without feeling like my own is threatened, and you cannot.

This is what happens when you try to have intelligent discourse with brainwashed liberal sheeple. Sound like an insult? I am just returning the favor. If you don't like it, don't start it. You do nothing but spew the party rhetoric and resort to personal insults when your cherished self assumed moral supremacy is threatened.

Regardless of your incessant whining, I am tolerant of your belief. You are not tolerant of mine, no matter how minimal my objection may be. Once again you have proven my point. Nothing less than my totally and completely abandoning my beliefs is good enough for you. Well, suck it up cupcake. Its not going to happen.

Rabid sheeple like you are one of the main reasons people remain intolerant of your ideals. Yes, its you. Not them. If you weren't so adamant and over the top about every single shred of the agenda and so absolute in forcing people to adopt your views perhaps people would be a little more relaxed about accepting yours. But at long as you demand absolute adherence to your beliefs you will meet with resistance. You are your own worst enemy. And personally, I find that very amusing. Have at it. Attack attack attack. Be as intolerant as you want to be, happy in the knowledge that it will return to you full swing. It took me a while to realize it, but you really are that confused. I knew you were off center, but until now I really had no idea how far. Enjoy your imagined victory for it is obvious that you are incapable of contemplating otherwise. You are always right. Anyone who disagrees with you is always wrong. There is a name for that... but I wont say it because you will go off on a tangent about hate speech or something equally ludicrous.

At some point even someone as stubborn as you will have to admit that I have said repeatedly that I accept your belief but still maintain my own and you have denied my belief at every turn. Either I completely and totally agree with your belief and abandon my own or you will continue to publicly insult me and call me a bigot. If you cant see that, you need help.

Enjoy your delusional holiday. Or is that hateful and bigoted too...

a reply to: Rocker2013

I can't help but notice that you have a similar bloody spot on your head from banging it up against the wall too.

You do realize we're yelling into an empty bucket here, yes?

a reply to: Seamrog

And GLBTQ+ people didn't have a choice, just because your Book tells you what to believe doesn't make it 1 true, and 2 able to force laws upon people

a reply to: Vroomfondel

If you don't understand i'm sorry...

a reply to: Seamrog

That is the whole problem with this issue.

The anti-gay religious people think there's a choice in the matter but everyone else knows they're wrong.

THAT is why people will continue comparing your bigotry to that of racists.

How anyone can believe that homosexuality is a choice is just completely mind boggling to me. I guess it stems from the belief that god is in charge of everything and couldn't possibly create a homosexual. As long as that is your viewpoint, you can't be expected to respond rationally in this sort of discussion. The blacks who are against homosexuality are basing their beliefs on the exact same "logic."

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
At some point even someone as stubborn as you will have to admit that I have said repeatedly that I accept your belief but still maintain my own and you have denied my belief at every turn. Either I completely and totally agree with your belief and abandon my own or you will continue to publicly insult me and call me a bigot. If you cant see that, you need help.

For the umpteenth time... your viewpoint is not simply an opinion.

You don't get to say bigoted things and get a pass by saying "well that's just my opinion..."

I know that you see yourself as the victim here and your mind is not going to change, but to the rest of us that defense looks completely ridiculous.

Nobody is trying to force a belief on you, we're simply trying to get you to realize that you're saying hateful things without realizing it but that's proving to be a woefully pointless endeavor.

If you can't see that, you need help.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I feel so sorry for you. You are so blind yet think you see so clearly.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, there is a difference between stating an opinion and bigotry. If I say I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman I am not a bigot. If I say men cant marry men and women cant marry women, that's a different story. I never denied you or anyone else anything. I just disagree with it. I am allowed to disagree and that does not make a bigot unless it makes you one too for disagreeing with me. Its so simple but you are blind to it because you think you are always right and anyone who disagrees with you is always wrong. And that is right back at the heart of this: you cant accept any opinion other than your own. You cant allow anyone to have an opinion other than your own. If they do, they are faulty. They are wrong. They are bigots. Well get over yourself because they aren't. You are the one with the problem. You are the so called empty bucket. All I hear from you is echoes of yes we can and if you don't like Obama you are a racist. Its the same pathetic crap over and over again jus this time with gay marriage instead.

I accept gay people. I accept gay marriage. I believe it should be between a man and a woman, but I allow you or anyone else to do otherwise. I do not insist that you abandon your belief in favor of mine. You expect me to accept your belief, and support it legally and with tax dollars as well, but you absolutely flatly refuse to even consider any opinion other than your own. You are the problem. Not me. If you don't see that, there is no hope for you. None.

My advice to you is just stop talking. Every time you open your mouth you hurt your own cause. The more adamant you are about forcing people to see things your way the more they will resist. If you show some tolerance, which you supposedly hold in such high esteem, then you will get some cooperation. Instead, you keep bashing people for disagreeing with you and hiding behind the assertion that you speak for all of society. I saw societies opinion at Chick Fil A when the lines were more than half a mile long and stayed that way all day long. And I saw the ten or fifteen people who had their sad little counter protest. What happened to your 80% or more of society support LGBT that day?

I really do feel sorry for you. I hope some day you learn the meaning of tolerance and acceptance and realize it applies to more than just gay people.

a reply to: Answer

What you just said in a nutshell (appropriately):

"I will continue to call you bigot until you abandon your belief in favor of mine, or you stop practicing your right to free speech."

You publicly insult me but that's ok.... And you aren't a bigot for doing it.

Uh huh...

For the umpteenth time: there is a difference between an opinion and bigotry. Think about it. If all it took to be a bigot is disagreeing with someone, then everyone on earth is a bigot. Is that what you believe?

If you cant see that, you need help.

Today, the 4th of July, I went to a supermarket (a locally established,independently owned and operated store established in 1958, the year of my birth) that was packed full of people.
People of ALL races, colors, styles, ages, etc. It's not a bright shiny brand new high-tech place either - the tiles are worn, the structure is old (but interestingly it is filled with antiques - from bronze statues to cathedral bells, collections of salt and pepper shakers to decorative figurines, and everything in between.)

Not ONE person was being ugly. When I was walking with my cart, two other people were beside me. One was a lesbian, one was a middle-aged black man. I am a person like in my avatar..... We chatted and laughed and smiled and enjoyed sharing those 30 seconds of time together. The woman helped me put my stuff on the conveyor. The checker was a blonde woman wearing a flag t-shirt. It was a perfectly enjoyable outing.


There were families of Mexicans, there were old folks, and young families, and complete harmony. The parking lot was FULL, and it's a big parking lot. People were allowing others to back into the exit lanes, not shoving their way through or flipping people off or honking.....

THAT is how it is where I live.
Every day.

If anyone thinks it can't be done - well, you are wrong.


Why can't the entire country be like that?

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Aside from your expressed bigotry, now you've proven yourself to be patently dishonest. You're beginning to bore me.

No one here has (or I believe would) called you a bigot for merely expressing a belief that "marriage is between man and woman."

That's not what you've done, and you know it. You've commented that all gays are unnatural, perverse, warped, and publicly licentious ... and that's just off the top of my head.

These are the comments that make you a bigot, not your arcane beliefs about marriage.

I don't think I'm always right, and again, you keep rephrasing what is said to you in either absolutes or outright fabrications.

I have never said I'm infallible, or as you say, that I'm always right. Those accusations sound so childish, kind of like a kid when frustrated with an argument screaming "I know you are but what am I" over and over.

I accept plenty of opinions other than my own. You're lying every time you say differently. I've said here repeatedly that you can believe anything you want. The only thing I've pointed out to you is that when you express your beliefs in public, or to another person, and your belief is that an entire class of people is lesser than you or beneath you or "less natural' than you, you're being a bigot.

Apparently your political beliefs are starting to bleed over here. Let me make a wild leap: You probably see all liberals, Democrats, and progressives (or really, anyone more moderate than your own extremism) as dangerous, anti-American and evil.

Predictable.

To all the people who support gay marriage:

Do you know you can allow someone to have an opinion other than your own without sacrificing your beliefs or being victimized? You don't have to portray yourself as a victim every time someone disagrees with you. If you make every single thing a huge monumental battle, you trivialize the things they truly are monumental. You are hurting your own cause and damaging your own reputation. You make yourself less credible. Try practicing tolerance and acceptance for someone besides LGBT. Its easy to accept your own. The test is in accepting someone who sees things differently than you. If you cant do that, then you need to stop preaching to others and work on yourself for a while.

a reply to: Gryphon66

God you are sad.

Go back to my first post. All I said was I disagree with being lumped in with extremist bigots because I simply disagree with gay marriage. I never said I wouldn't allow it or couldn't accept it. Only that I disagree with it. That's all. Nothing else.

No one here has (or I believe would) called you a bigot for merely expressing a belief that "marriage is between man and woman."

That is exactly what you are doing. The end. Period. That is exactly what you are doing.

You say they sound childish, but you keep doing it in every single response. Do you even know what you are saying?