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The REALITY of Marriage Equality

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posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

Care to answer my question?


a reply to: Vroomfondel

Quick Question: do you support that GLBTQ+ people be federally protected? that we can't get fired just for being GLBTQ+, that we should be able to give Blood and adopt, that we can't be denied services, property or housing?




posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Anyone that told you that you didn't have a right to your opinion is wrong. Everyone has the right to an opinion, including me. Sometimes, we don't like each other's opinions. Oh well - that's life.

The only thing that really bothers me are the actions of people, not necessarily their opinions. When people start trying to get laws set up so that gays can't legally marry, that riles me up. When people start trying to get laws set up so that gays can't adopt or have families of their own, that riles me up. When people refuse to sell the exact same product or service to gay people that they are perfectly willing to sell to everyone else, that riles me up.


If you don't like whats on Tv you just change the channel, If you don't like the food at any particular restaurant you go eat some where you find more delicious. if you happen to own a business or are a particular faith you should be able to deny services to those you deem unworthy of your Services or you disagree with their choices and not be threatened by Government by loss or limb. If you are Homosexual and cannot find solace or acceptance where you live...you move to where you can find all those wonderful things or create business that cater to your belief. Just because some crazed individual kills a theater full of innocent people, does not make everyone who own a gun at fault or responsible for said Trespass

Bypass, not trespass

edit on 3-7-2015 by SPECULUM because: of nancy



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: SPECULUM
if you happen to own a business or are a particular faith you should be able to deny services to those you deem unworthy of your Services


YEAH!!!

Like black people! And those damn Jews!



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: Answer



the more signs they put up, the more public they are about denying GLBTQ+ people services and openly discriminating against us only hurts their cause



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 05:55 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

Facts are facts, which are true statements.

You've shown that you want to focus on opinions, which are either true or not.

You don't "believe in homosexuality" ... avoid intimacy with your own sex.

You don't "believe in marriage equality" ... marry someone of the opposite sex.

No one cares what you do, personally. But "personally" is not good enough for you. You want to be able to make blanket statements like "homosexuals are unnatural" and claim "that's just my opinion."

Yes, it's your opinion, but you're talking about other human people and their lives generically, and you're presenting yourself as better ("more natural") than they, (You know, the same thing you were whining about in your first post.)

You don't get to say offhandedly that millions of other people are perverse, unnatural and less than you, and get away with it.

That's precisely WHY you're being called a bigot, because YOU ARE.




edit on 17Fri, 03 Jul 2015 17:55:58 -050015p052015766 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 06:02 PM
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I still would like Vroomfondel to answer my question, because the answer has nothing to do with Marriage or Religion, actually i would like everyone who says Same-Sex Marriage is against their religion to answer my question



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 06:33 PM
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originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: Answer



the more signs they put up, the more public they are about denying GLBTQ+ people services and openly discriminating against us only hurts their cause


I agree.

Also, in case it wasn't obvious to everyone, my post about blacks and Jews was made ironically to point out the absurdity in saying "business owners should be able to deny services to those they deem unworthy..."



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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originally posted by: nerbot

originally posted by: Lightworth
To equate homosexuality (in and of itself) with REAL perversions and criminality like pedophilia and bestiality is just SICK and completely unsubstantiated.


What most people seem to ignore is the huge difference between gay women and gay men, lumping everyone into the same boat....

When a woman pleasures a woman it doesn't have to involve a waste disposal organ.

Eeeewwwww!

Forget religion, that came later, nature rules everything and going against it must be questioned.

And to those who say things like "well some animals do it so it must be natural"....there are messed up animals too.


Maybe you're overthinking the specifics just a smidge...

I'm just sayin...



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I focus on MY opinion. Its the only one I have a right to. Unlike many other people who seem to think they have the right to dictate what my opinion should be. According to you I have two choices: 1) agree with you entirely and completely, or, 2) I am a bigot.

Sorry, but you don't get to decide that.

What I have learned in this thread is exactly that. I have my opinion and you have yours. I am willing to accept that but you aren't. That isn't good enough for you. You not have to have your opinion, but you have to make sure I abandon mine too. Nothing less than absolute complete agreement is good enough for you. Well it sucks to be you. I don't agree 100% and I am not going to. I am willing to accept that people are who they are. I am willing to acknowledge gay marriage even though I disagree with it. I am not going to shout rude names at people or chase them down the street throwing rocks at them. That is for the extremists..you know, bigots by definition. (funny how those facts work both ways) I may disagree with gay marriage but I can allow it to happen. Not once have I said it shouldn't be allowed or it cant happen. I wont hate someone for being gay and getting married or just being gay. But that isn't good enough for you agenda pushers. I have to completely totally absolutely agree with you and your agenda and you warped perspective or I am a bigot and a hater. But if I use EXACTLY THE SAME LOGIC ON YOU - YOU DENY IT. How convenient it is when you can make your own rules and have it both ways whenever you want. Guess what - you cant. You are seriously deluded if you think you can. And if you think you are any more open minded accepting or tolerant than I am you are sadly mistaken. You have proven quite the reverse. YOU don't get to call millions of people bigots and haters just because they disagree with you. There is a fact just for you.



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: Darth_Prime

You already have that. You are free to litigate to your hearts content.

Do I think it should be that way? Not entirely.

That is the problem with legislating equality. In order to do that you have to do it equally, straight across the board or in resolving one inequity you are creating another. If you can enforce one groups rights without infringing on the rights of others - I have no problem with that. But be cautious how you proceed. It is easy to overlook pitfalls and traps that ruin what appear to be perfectly good ideas. I can give you an example of the sort of thing I am referring to. This is the guts of a debate I once witnessed. A rather good one too.

Side A said black people should be allowed to live in a white neighborhood if they want to and it is illegal to discriminate against them in regards to availability of housing. They have the right to escape the violence of the inner city and move to the relative safety of the suburbs.

Side B said fine. If they can live in a white neighborhood, can I?

Side A said of course you can.

Side B said where is it? My neighborhood is no longer white. Now its mixed. Where is the white neighborhood?

There was no answer.



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 07:41 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

We don't have that, GLBTQ+ is not federally protected, in 31 states we can get fired just for being GLBTQ+, we can get denied services, we can get denied housing. we can't donate blood, adopt, property... besides the abuse and murders. so know we have nothing close to that

So out of those what don't you agree with?



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: Answer

You can say it all you want. Saying it doesn't make it so. Despite the liberal mantras, it doesn't work that way.

Yes we can Yes we can Yes we can... what a bunch of crap. Saying it doesn't make it real. Get over yourself.



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: Darth_Prime

I am under the impression that harassment includes things of a sexual nature. When the harassment is so sever it creates a hostile environment it can be litigated. Does that not include LGBT? States may have their own laws but I am referring to federal law, EEOC. I am not an expert on the EEOC but it would seem that this would qualify as sexual harassment.

What I don't agree with is anything that cant be enforced equally. It doesn't matter to me what it is, as long as its equally enforceable and treats everyone equally. If it enforces one persons rights while taking away another, that I disagree with.



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 08:01 PM
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How do you define marriage?

1 Is it just the consensual intimacy between two longterm lovers?

2 Is it just the consensual intimacy betwen two longterm lovers who reproduce and look after their children?

Obviously, men and woman in hte past who were married sometimes did NOT have children. YET they were legally married. That's (1).

Should we make a distinction between a married couple who reproduce or who otherwise look after children in their household?

IMHO, marriage doesn't mean much if it doesn't include children. It's about children. It's about 'Hey you two are married now act like adults!"

It's about--more than anyting else--FAMILY. Two homosexual lovers who care for an adopted child are a FAMILY in my mind. Even though it still makes me nervous, at least it has some purpose.

But without the children included it's meaningless to me. So two people lvoe each longterm and it's consensual. Gr8. But.... children?

I must have more conservative in me than I ever realized. Because all of the rubberbanding on things is starting to **** me off. Anything goes! I grew up largely liberal-ish and was liberal-ish up until something changed. I'm not saying I'm conservative because I think I'm more on the fence on most issues. But the older I get the more conservative I feel.
edit on 3-7-2015 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: jonnywhite
How do you define marriage?


Just to be clear.

This is about LEGAL marriage.
edit on 3-7-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

I wasn't talking about Sexual Harassment, i'm saying that we can get fired simply for being GLBTQ+, we have no Federal Protection and 31 states can openly and legally discriminate against us just for being GLBTQ+ including denying services and housing



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

You're mistaken. I don't have a right to dictate your opinion to you, and further, never have, and have never claimed that.

No one else in this discussion has dictated your opinion to you.

What does such a phrase even mean? We can't control your mind and insert opinions into your head.

That statement is nothing more than an empty whine ... it has no meaning.

I have never said that you have to agree with me, completely or not.

When you state publicly that you think all homosexuals are unnatural and perverse, however, that's a bigoted statement. That's the definition of what it means to be bigoted. It's a function of society. If you're in a group of your homophobic friends, and you want to rail on about how gays are unnatural, perverse, etc., I really doubt that anyone would call you a bigot. Your words, the expression of your belief, in that context, has no possibility of harming anyone.

But that's not the case when you come into public and start stating that all homosexuals are unnatural.

You want to equate all opinions as equal, and all opinions just aren't equal.

That's one of the factual/rational flaws in your presentation here.

You keep claiming that you have a right to believe that all homosexuals are unnatural perverts, and you DO! No one can take that away from you, and honestly, after a few passes at sharing the facts with you, no one is even trying to sway your mind on the issue.

Again, I don't and no one here wants to you to change your mind.

But by making statements like ...



I have to completely totally absolutely agree with you and your agenda and you warped perspective or I am a bigot and a hater.


You keep shooting yourself in the foot.

You keep demonstrating that you are a bigot, you are intolerant, you are prejudiced and more likely than not since you're using all the key memes, you're a hater.

You do not, and no one has over asked you to change your mind, give up your beliefs, alter your opinion.

But it's a bigoted one. By the definition of the word. By every kind of common interpretation and understanding in English.

I don't call anyone a bigot because they disagree with me. I call them bigots when they act like bigots.

Would you answer a question for me? Why does it matter to you, at all, that the expression of your opinions causes others to call you a bigot so often? I'm sure (or at least I hope) that you've actually gone through some process to weigh the matter, the options available to you, the facts on both sides of the issue ... and you've decided the way you have.

Given that, what does it matter if others think you are a bigot?
edit on 20Fri, 03 Jul 2015 20:47:05 -050015p082015766 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 08:26 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv
Here's a sampling of research to support you:
www.news-med ical.net - "Kin selection hypothesis" may explain homosexuality from an evolutionary point of view...

Do these findings have any meaning outside of Samoa? Yes and no. Samoan culture is very different from most Western cultures. Samoan culture is very localized, and centered on tight-knit extended families, whereas Western societies tend to be highly individualistic and homophobic. Families are also much more geographically dispersed in Western cultures, diminishing the role that bachelor uncles can play in the extended family, even if they choose to. But in this sense, the researchers say, Samoa's communitarian culture may be more-not less-representative of the environment in which male same-sex sexuality evolved eons ago. In that sense, it's not the bachelor uncle who is poorly adapted to the world, but rather the modern Western world that has evolved into an unwelcoming place.

My last post makes me about to be a hardline conservative, but I'm not that hard. I have a very close gay friend. I grew up christian. I was very liberal at one time in my mid 20's. I'm all over.

I just don't trust this. Call me a bigot. Whatever. I don't care. This world has changed so many variables I don't trust much anymore. It's a big mess. Yet being a mess perhaps is a blessing in a disguise.

WHICH is why I say as long as children are involved somehow in our definition of marriage then it has a chance of having value.

EDIT: Want to add I am VERY against religious people who feel guilty for being gay. You're who you're!!! Enjoy life. If rejecting your natural impulses truly helps you to be happier then fine, but I doubt it. I don't think I'd be happy if I tried to deny any attraction to the woman gender. And what about intimacy? Don't you want to be physically attracted to someone you love? Sexual attraction by itself is meaningless but it can compliment an actual relationship.
edit on 3-7-2015 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 08:35 PM
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originally posted by: jonnywhite
a reply to: kaylaluv
Here's a sampling of research to support you:
www.news-med ical.net - "Kin selection hypothesis" may explain homosexuality from an evolutionary point of view...

Do these findings have any meaning outside of Samoa? Yes and no. Samoan culture is very different from most Western cultures. Samoan culture is very localized, and centered on tight-knit extended families, whereas Western societies tend to be highly individualistic and homophobic. Families are also much more geographically dispersed in Western cultures, diminishing the role that bachelor uncles can play in the extended family, even if they choose to. But in this sense, the researchers say, Samoa's communitarian culture may be more-not less-representative of the environment in which male same-sex sexuality evolved eons ago. In that sense, it's not the bachelor uncle who is poorly adapted to the world, but rather the modern Western world that has evolved into an unwelcoming place.

My last post makes me about to be a hardline conservative, but I'm not that hard. I have a very close gay friend. I grew up christian. I was very liberal at one time in my mid 20's. I'm all over.

I just don't trust this. Call me a bigot. Whatever. I don't care. This world has changed so many variables I don't trust much anymore. It's a big mess. Yet being a mess perhaps is a blessing in a disguise.


I think these are the 2 guys I researched recently.

Paul Vasey and Doug VanderLaan

I found them very credible - - - if it is the same 2 guys I researched.



posted on Jul, 4 2015 @ 01:05 AM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Answer

You can say it all you want. Saying it doesn't make it so. Despite the liberal mantras, it doesn't work that way.

Yes we can Yes we can Yes we can... what a bunch of crap. Saying it doesn't make it real. Get over yourself.



There's always just two sides to an issue, right?

I'm not a Liberal... nice try, though.




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