UK bans teaching of creationism in any school that receives public funding

16 or so pages in and we are still going round in circles with this.

I ask any UK member to coment on this and be against state funding bieng removed from schools that teach creationism as fact.

Until then I'm off to some different threads as this is going nowhere.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I think religious ideas about creation can/should be mentioned for objectivity sake, but the core curriculum should be logic, fact, and science oriented. They can get a religious education at church and at home. It's to hard to please every religious sect at a public institution, so just leave religion out of it entirely.

Cool, then we agree with the actions of the UK government in the OP

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I think if anything and a kid asked me, "Well who created the big bang?" I'd say:

We don't know. We don't know for sure if anyone or anything created it either. Maybe someday we'll have a better understanding, but we don't right now. I can only teach you about the things we've observed and measured, and that's all we really have to go on. If anything, hopefully it makes you all curious and want to study the big bang and help everyone understand it better.

a reply to: nonspecific

I don't think any bruts will think its a bad idea.
Not tge ones I know on ats anyhow.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I think if anything and a kid asked me, "Well who created the big bang?" I'd say:

We don't know. We don't know for sure if anyone or anything created it either. Maybe someday we'll have a better understanding, but we don't right now. I can only teach you about the things we've observed and measured, and that's all we really have to go on. If anything, hopefully it makes you all curious and want to study the big bang and help everyone understand it better.

Bingo. Come teach at my school.

I don't have a school.

Or students.


...Come teach my Corgi.

a reply to: nonspecific

90% of people in the UK agree with the legislation last year, I'd bet all my money on it.
Only the rabid and crazed religious types have a problem. It is why we are only discussing it on ATS.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You can't just say you have corgi all nonchalantly like that.

I expect pictures in the pet forum asap!

a reply to: grainofsand

You are putting words in my mouth.

I didn't say any version of creationism should be taught at school. I have zero problem with what is taught. It is how it's taught. It does not encourage free thinking. It closes the mind.

If everything has already been figured out and these are the answers then what is the point of me going and exploring this or testing that. Because of how things are taught in school I think the next generation is in serious trouble. The only wonder left in the world is video games, for everything else has been figured out.....Please see the point I am trying to make here and don't take this literal.

The amount of close mindedness I see is staggering. Especially on this site. WE DO NOT KNOW. Quit bashing each other over the heads claiming that you know more than this person, or you have the truth.

I am a christian, I am so because it works for me. Look at my post history I talked once about how it saved me from drugs and a mental breakdown. Someone shortly after that talked about how they were thinking about joining a religion. I asked them not to consider what I had to say about being religious when they made their decision. It is what works for me and everyone needs to work out what works for themselves. Would I like everyone to be christian? Maybe, I dunno, but I would like it because it made me so much better/happier and I would hope it would be the same for them. Sure would make for a dull place if we all were though.

I want people to respect each others right to believe what they want. Let people figure things out for themselves. The things that are fact today are not tomorrow. We have each other and very little else really. I want people to quit being such inconsiderate ass holes to each other.

I'll stop now .

a reply to: raxusillian

Wait, so... Teaching children "God created the universe" is open-minded.

And teaching them "We're not certain yet how it happened, or if it's even correct, but here's how scientists surmise it could have been, please ask questions!" is close-minded?

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

What in the hell are you talking about? where did i say anything like that?

Did you even read what I wrote?

You saw "I am a christian" and immediately assumed so many things about me. You are part of the problem sir/maam. Sorry cant tell by your name.

I doubt you'd see any UK people being against the ban. I've never in my life met or heard of anyone who believes in creationism in the UK, whether they be devout catholic, muslim, or jehovas' witness. I don't think anyone thinks the idea is anything other than a prehistoric story, let alone a science, other than maybe a handful of ultra-orthodox schools.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I think if anything and a kid asked me, "Well who created the big bang?" I'd say:

We don't know. We don't know for sure if anyone or anything created it either. Maybe someday we'll have a better understanding, but we don't right now. I can only teach you about the things we've observed and measured, and that's all we really have to go on. If anything, hopefully it makes you all curious and want to study the big bang and help everyone understand it better.

This is exactly the way I used to tutor teenagers and would hope any other adult and teacher would do the same. It's an honest and accurate answer plus who wants a boring, simple answer handed to them on a plate when there's so much out there to learn or discover.

a reply to: raxusillian

Okay, so how is teaching children to think critically, and logically, close minded?

I'm not saying creationism can't be a subject, but it should be a subject in History class, not Science.

originally posted by: raxusillian
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I hate seeing the stupid rationale for science. Its the best answer we have so its truth.

ITS NOT TRUTH dont teach it or preach it as such.

I didn't use the word "truth" in that entire response to you.

Sick and tired of pricks ripping on people for believing in creationism. YOU DONT KNOW, I DONT KNOW. You have NO FACTS. You have EVIDENCE. It may be good evidence, it may be very convincing, but fact it is not.

"Ripping on you"? If I were ripping on you, you'd know it. I asked you some questions then uttered a personal frustration of mine. If you think that is "ripping on you" then you have some super thin skin.

Quit being dicks to people that would questions established "facts". Without people that question established facts we will get nowhere ever. The world would still be flat, we never went to the moon, we would be in caves still. So quit being an ass hole.

Questioning facts is how science got to where it is. They questioned "facts" presented by Creationists, so don't pretend like you are thinking outside the box by questioning science. All that is is an angry rant to disguise the fact that you haven't studied the science and are dismissing it off hand.

I notice you didn't answer my question about who was claiming the world was flat. Here I'll answer it for you. The world hasn't been considered flat since the ancient Greeks. The world WASN'T considered flat by people in the Middle Ages and Christopher Columbus wasn't trying to prove the world was round when he set sail from Spain.

a reply to: raxusillian

So what is your issue then?
The topic is the UK government stopping funding for schools which teach creation myths in science classes.
You seem to have a problem with that and you aren't even from the UK so wtf do you know about our school system, national curriculum, and funding processes?

originally posted by: raxusillian
If everything has already been figured out and these are the answers then what is the point of me going and exploring this or testing that. Because of how things are taught in school I think the next generation is in serious trouble. The only wonder left in the world is video games, for everything else has been figured out.....Please see the point I am trying to make here and don't take this literal.

Things aren't taught that way. At least outside the states they aren't. I can't speak for schools that mandate teaching Creationism as science in the states though. There is not a SINGLE scientist or science enthusiast who says that science is complete and we know all the answers. That is religion speaking. In fact, it is only the religious that insist that scientists make this claim, which makes it a strawman.

The amount of close mindedness I see is staggering. Especially on this site. WE DO NOT KNOW. Quit bashing each other over the heads claiming that you know more than this person, or you have the truth.

Lol. Things aren't so black and white. Some people DO know more than others and are better educated than others. Just because we don't have all the answers doesn't mean that we don't have SOME of the answers.

I am a christian, I am so because it works for me. Look at my post history I talked once about how it saved me from drugs and a mental breakdown. Someone shortly after that talked about how they were thinking about joining a religion. I asked them not to consider what I had to say about being religious when they made their decision. It is what works for me and everyone needs to work out what works for themselves. Would I like everyone to be christian? Maybe, I dunno, but I would like it because it made me so much better/happier and I would hope it would be the same for them. Sure would make for a dull place if we all were though.

Great. No one is trying to take that away from you. We just don't want it to show up in science class.

I want people to respect each others right to believe what they want. Let people figure things out for themselves. The things that are fact today are not tomorrow. We have each other and very little else really. I want people to quit being such inconsiderate ass holes to each other.

I'll stop now .

Questioning someone's beliefs isn't disrepecting them.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun
The person standing behind is not so much for 'if you flinch' it is to end your suffering out of respect for the act of seppuku….

originally posted by: raxusillian
If everything has already been figured out and these are the answers then what is the point of me going and exploring this or testing that. Because of how things are taught in school I think the next generation is in serious trouble. The only wonder left in the world is video games, for everything else has been figured out.....Please see the point I am trying to make here and don't take this literal.

No offence but that's exaclty what organised religion says.

No scientist would ever claim we have any answers, let alone all of them as the way science works is it can only prove things wrong, it can never prove something to be right as we never know what technology we'll come up with in the future to allow us to test theories in ways no one can imagine currently. All science does is look to try and further our understanding of the universe, and all knowledge is only valid as a theory as it has been proven time and time again every experiment so far. We constatly have to come up with new tests to test theories and hypothesis against, that's the basic premise of science, nothing is sacred, everything is subject to debate and questioning - in fact it's encouraged.

Also the more science develops, the more we realise we don't know - the universe is full of wonder, there are billions of planets out there that haven't even been discovered let alone visited or explored, on the smaller scale we're barely even scraping the surface of sub atomic particles - recently we discovered only 4% of the Universe is atoms and we know less than 1% about those so there's literally an infinite amount of things to wonder, ponder and work on in science.

originally posted by: raxusillian
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

What in the hell are you talking about? where did i say anything like that?

Did you even read what I wrote?

You saw "I am a christian" and immediately assumed so many things about me. You are part of the problem sir/maam. Sorry cant tell by your name.

I gave you a star for a joke.

That is all.

a reply to: notmyrealname

True enough, yep. I was confusing more of a battlefield Seppuku with a more ritualistic form of Seppuku, which as the ritual evolved often didn't involve a tanto at all, and only kaishakunin delivering the decapitating blow after the Samurai reached for a symbolic object. (Like a pen, or a fan, or something dear to them)

a reply to: Krazysh0t

EDIT: I withdraw my comment cuz being an angry ass hole myself