Is Earth the Center of the Entire Universe?

originally posted by: MarsIsRed
That fact that you question things is GOOD; everyone should. But to question facts is a bad thing - facts test us in many ways... it's a part of growing up.

I haven't questioned facts as a bad thing. Where did you get that idea?

One of the facts is they sent 3 satellites because they thought the results from the first one was wrong so they sent up 2 more and got the same results. To me that says something.

originally posted by: MarsIsRed
you seem to think that opinions are important? They're not... only the data.

I happen to think both are important, I value your opinion and I am trying to understand it belive me. I also think data is important too. Both can be wrong though.

a reply to: enament

That isn't true. Initial data hinted at a certain thing, but proved the concept. A second CMB satellite was launched to check the data - they agreed. A third satellite was launched which better resolved the data. At no point ever did the data contradict itself.

just for the record... it could be construed that I'm being an argumentative dick for the sake of it! I'm not. It's just that I feel strongly about science (in particular astronomy). Factual data is factual data!

a reply to: MarsIsRed

No No I don't mind I wish to continue tomorrow though I need to get some rest lets reconvene with a fresh mind and arm ourselves with better debative arguments.
I look forward to being better prepared to understand each other.

originally posted by: enament

originally posted by: MarsIsRed
you seem to think that opinions are important? They're not... only the data.

I happen to think both are important, I value your opinion and I am trying to understand it belive me. I also think data is important too. Both can be wrong though.

In all honesty, data CAN be wrong too. Rarely, but not impossible. But that's the beauty of science - it's self regulating. It's also what makes science interesting.

originally posted by: enament
a reply to: MarsIsRed

No No I don't mind I wish to continue tomorrow though I need to get some rest lets reconvene with a fresh mind and arm ourselves with better debative arguments.
I look forward to being better prepared to understand each other.

I look forward to this conversation! (believe it or not) I'm quite open minded!

originally posted by: enament
a reply to: MarsIsRed

NoI look forward to being better prepared to understand each other.

Me to!

a reply to: enament

Hate to break the news to you buddy but our solar system is located quite far out on one of the spiral arms of our galaxy, absolutely no where near the center which is probably a large black hole. Now our galaxy, that being the Milky Way, is only one of many in a cluster of 17 galaxies, beyond our cluster are more clusters, then more, probably somewhere to the tune of around 100 billion galaxies more. I think its a safe bet that our Earth is not the center of our universe.

Put it this way if indeed our Earth were even close to the center of our galaxy never mind our universe then the sky would be full of rather more stars.

a reply to: andy06shake

But from each of our own minds everything else surrounds.
So in my observations iam the centre of everything.
So kneel....kneel before me son of shake.!
Lol.

a reply to: boymonkey74

If that were the case then each of our own minds would be a different center. Perception at play? Holographic principle probably holds more weight.

a reply to: andy06shake

Well it is isn't it we are each at the centre of our own observable universe.

a reply to: boymonkey74

True but the fact that we could possibly conclude that our own observable universe is the bee all and end all regarding reality probably says rather a lot regarding Humanity's over inflated opinion of ourselves than it actually being the case.

Since when can a component view the entire whole?

If we accept the Universe incorporates relative scale invariance we would need something "outside" the Universe with which to measure our distances.

We could never be sure that our "inside" measurements properly factored the true geometry and time variables without having an "outside" element to verify.

If we could accurately simulate this Universe in a virtual environment we might be able to model an "average size of Universes" but I have a feeling the limitation of information principle applies when talking about "Whole Universes" and positions within them.

originally posted by: redtic
Oh yeah, I remember this. It is kinda funny (in a sad sort of way) that this nitwit was able to dupe all of these prominent physicists, and a Starfleet captain!

www.npr.org...

Nice read. People are ignorant, not duped. From a that link…

What we do know is that when asked whether the Earth revolves around the Sun or the other way around, 1 in 4 Americans got the wrong answer in a recent survey compiled by the National Science Foundation.

They weren't taught this, they never had the inclination to learn either way.

a reply to: MarsIsRed

Sorry that's the biggest bunch of bull# I've ever read... Science is not self regulating. It's self discriminating. The only historically provable scientific fact is that science is never currently accurate... The fallacy is that you get closer to the truth, but that is a misnomer. You don't get closer to the truth. You create specializations and self reinforcing discriminations that limit your ability to regulate closer to the truth.

It's a fine line, because when you start out, you DO get closer to the truth, but the farther along you go, the very nature of paradigms and human society can actually get you farther from the truth, because it only allows for slight deviations from the paradigms, the more specialized you become and the more intertwined and inter-reliant the paradigms from the specializations and the different branches become. Then, to exacerbate the situation, the paradigms claim that their inter-reliance actually bolsters their conclusions when it does the exact opposite. Well, not the exact opposite, it just further prevents paradigm shifts and correction of erroneous conclusions.

To say that science and its' paradigms are self correcting is one of the biggest misnomers of humanity.

Jaden

The way I look at it, the universe consists of what we can observe and comprehend through empirical reasoning. What we don't know or understand essentially doesn't exist for us except as speculation or theory.

So in this particular universe, if we had the ability to jump in a rocket and fly at near infinite speeds such that we could reach the forward expanding "edge" of the universe, I can see where it wouldn't matter which direction we were flying since we would always go backwards in time and curve back around to the Big Bang. And it would always be the same distance and take us the same amount of time.

Now, in my book if where we are is equidistant from all forward edges of the expanding universe, that pretty much puts us square at the center.

Curiously, though, because of the funny way spacetime works, everywhere else is the center of the universe, too.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: MarsIsRed

Sorry that's the biggest bunch of bull# I've ever read... Science is not self regulating. It's self discriminating....blah-blah-blah

...you blithley type on a computer which could not possibly exist if science operated in any way similar to what you describe. You have NO idea how the scientific method works and how it progresses, and NO understanding of how scientists think, or what motivates them. None.

a reply to: Masterjaden

And yet, somehow, scientists make successful preditions, advance our technology based on science, and send very complex equipment on very complex trajectories to very distant planets/moons/asteroids/comets, etc.

So they must be getting something right. Paradigm shifts in science do happen, and they happen because of science being what it is - an ever-learning and self-correcting discipline.

a reply to: enament

The earth is the center of the universe but more to the point I am the center of the universe.

Ego is the fuel that keeps earth turning.

Of coarse others believe they are the center and we are all locked in a battle here in this place.