US may withhold military technology from EU allies if they lift arms embargo on China.

The US is threatening to withhold military technology from the EU if they go forward with their plans to lift the arms embargo against China.

I don't really see a problem with this.
I don't mind if the EU lifts the embargo and I think the US is justified to withhold technology from the EU.

EUbusiness
The US is ready to hold back military technology from European allies over EU steps to revoke its arms embargo on China, the Financial Times reported Friday.

The British financial daily quoted unnamed Pentagon officials who said the US would likely withdraw government backing for measures to improve military technology transfers to European countries if the European Union begins to sell arms to China.

At a Brussels summit on December 17, EU leaders declared their "political will" to lift an arms embargo on China, possibly by next June, while stressing that Beijing must respect human rights and regional stability.

"This has the potential to be a big brawl," an anonymous senior Pentagon official involved in Chinese policy told the FT.

[edit on 24-12-2004 by AceOfBase]

Good, after watching Chirac and Schroder suck up to Bejing, and call the embargo wrong (tell that to those who lost someone at Tienneman Square) im glad to see the US taking a firm stance.

However, this may scuttle the JSF if the U.K. is part of this.

That would reeeaaally piss of Britain, and thus [EDIT] up America's last real alliance (other than Canada). Plus, the EU can do a lot more damage to America than America can to the EU in terms of trade restrictions, and I wouldn't put that past us, and considering the current state of the States that wouldn't be very helpful. What's more, a lot of the EU states are -really- not going to respond well to threats.

MOD EDIT: Removed Profanity

[edit on 12/24/04 by FredT]

That would reeeaaally piss of Britain, and thus up America's last real alliance (other than Canada). Plus, the EU can do a lot more damage to America than America can to the EU in terms of trade restrictions, and I wouldn't put that past us, and considering the current state of the States that wouldn't be very helpful. What's more, a lot of the EU states are -really- not going to respond well to threats.

This is a dynamic and ever changing world. One doesn�t know who its allies will be tomorrow and so on; none the less it looks as if Japan and a few other countries will be replacing them shortly...

I think it�s far safer for us to battle the world alone then if we where to have the enemy (china) get ahold of our weapons systems and duplicate them to their likings, no?
This is the right step to take whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not.

And about other countries not holding well to threats? If we go, they go� We are all interwoven and none of us are self reliant. They seem to forget the countless times we bailed them out, eh? Time for them to stand up for themselves and develope their own technology.


[edit on 24-12-2004 by ChrisRT]

Originally posted by Amarillo_Brice
That would reeeaaally piss of Britain, and thus # up America's last real alliance (other than Canada). Plus, the EU can do a lot more damage to America than America can to the EU in terms of trade restrictions, and I wouldn't put that past us, and considering the current state of the States that wouldn't be very helpful. What's more, a lot of the EU states are -really- not going to respond well to threats.

The article says Britain may be hit the hardest.

The FT said that Britain stands to be the hardest hit by any US retaliation over any EU moves to sell military technology to China.

British firms BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce are the Pentagon's two biggest suppliers.

I don't think this will result in a trade war or anything like that.
It will just make Europe even more self reliant and could result in them developing technology not available to the US.

[edit on 24-12-2004 by AceOfBase]

Well I guess I miss read the thread sorry.

Daddy bush did help China during this presidency.

Well I do not agree that china should be allowed to have the arms embargo lifted.

They are a communist country after all.




[edit on 24-12-2004 by marg6043]

Yeah thanks US ! I think black watch's dead feel real good nowing they died for an ungrateful ally.

I think we should cut all military support in iraq with the US if they go ahead, if they want to play ball lets play hard ball.

Is Britain even interested in dealing with china? I think it would be in their and our best interest to deal with each other instead of outside parties.

Anyhow, if they want to play ball, let�s play ball!
It will hurt everyone in the end but I don�t see them doing anymore then breaking even in the end.


[edit on 24-12-2004 by ChrisRT]

As to the EU lifting the embargo and supplying China advanced weaponry, you eventually reap what you sow - it will come back on them.

As to the US limiting tech tranfers to the EU upon lifting the weapons embargo on China, the history of individual european nations in regards to selling weaponry and high tech to embargoed countries is already well known. There would be no reason for the US to believe the EU would hold back its tech from China just so long as the price was right.

Originally posted by ChrisRT
Is Britain even interested in dealing with china? I think it would be in their and our best interest to deal with each other instead of outside parties.

Well frankly your hurting us in the process and dont seem to give a damm!
It wouldnt matter if we wanted to deal or not we still get hurt.

Anyhow, if they want to play ball, let�s play ball!
It will hurt everyone in the end but I don�t see them doing anymore then breaking even in the end.
[edit on 24-12-2004 by ChrisRT]

Yeah we see that but the US high command doesnt, know what i dont think any americans will be going to the west of scotland anytime soon, catch my drift?

Well frankly your hurting us in the process and dont seem to give a damm!
It wouldnt matter if we wanted to deal or not we still get hurt.

Well I don�t know what everyone else feels but I believe that Britain should get special treatment with their word not to deal with china. How would they feel if their weapons where used in the near future against them? These other countries may basically be loading the gun that kills them. You can�t say that it�s farfetched at all...
I do hope we can work it out with Britain as I believe some, if not most of our views are the same. I just hope that the best happens for all.

They may decide to impose restrictions only upon those nations who sell military tech to China, leaving Britain out of the ban as long as they don't sell weaponry to China.

I think it's still too early to know for sure how this will turn out.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Yeah we see that but the US high command doesnt, know what i dont think any americans will be going to the west of scotland anytime soon, catch my drift?

This makes no sense getting upset at the US, do get upset with your continental neighbors in the EU who cannot control themselves when money is flashed before them.

What is expected? do you wish the US to supply the EU with advanced weaponry only to have it sold very soon after to the Chinese - even if its not sold outright how long before Chinese industrial espionage gets ahold of them anyways?

Originally posted by ChrisRT

Well I don�t know what everyone else feels but I believe that Britain should get special treatment with their word not to deal with china.

No! We where europeans when this country was made and we will be till it falls!

How would they feel if their weapons where used in the near future against them?

Then i would think they have to go a long way to get us but if they want to have a go bring it on!

These other countries may basically be loading the gun that kills them. You can�t say that it�s farfetched at all...

The US has done worse yet we didnt embargo them , i say we europeans stand together!

I do hope we can work it out with Britain as I believe some, if not most of our views are the same. I just hope that the best happens for all.

Frankly i think we shouldnt be given special treatment , we stood with europeans through thick and thin , frankly i dont think we should go back on that. The US isnt our neghibor the european countries, we value the US as an ally and a friend, BUT this doesnt mean we should be given special treatment.

Have merry christmas people and may what ever god or entity or being or what ever you believe in bless you!

I'd say it's a good move by the United States. The European Union needs the United States a lot more than the United States needs the European Union. About only 5% of the United States GDP is from exports., while European countries like Germany 28% of GDP and France 20% of GDP rely much more on exports. Although European countries could trade amongst themselves, it really helps them economically to have the big guy on their side.

Originally posted by Phoenix
This makes no sense getting upset at the US, do get upset with your continental neighbors in the EU who cannot control themselves when money is flashed before them.

Exscuse me! Are we europeans free? Are we US citzens? NO we are free we sell what we want to who we want!
The US doesnt control we control ourselves.

What is expected? do you wish the US to supply the EU with advanced weaponry only to have it sold very soon after to the Chinese - even if its not sold outright how long before Chinese industrial espionage gets ahold of them anyways?

You think you are really above the chinese huh?
The US has done just as worse as the chinese , frankly if you want to play this kind of game go play it with japan or taiwan.
I see no problems arised with tradeing with countries that kill civies and did shoot civies and wounded. Get a grip just cause your not happy with the EU doesnt mean the US can dictate to us.

Originally posted by slink
I'd say it's a good move by the United States. The European Union needs the United States a lot more than the United States needs the European Union.

So now you saying you dont need the UK?
Didnt need black watch in bagdad?
Didnt need those 3 dead lads who went and died to help americans, yeah thanks a F***ING LOT!

About only 5% of the United States GDP is from exports., while European countries like Germany 28% of GDP and France 20% of GDP rely much more on exports. Although European countries could trade amongst themselves, it really helps them economically to have the big guy on their side.

The big guy! Listen buddy you think cause your the biggest and strongest you can dictate to us? Well your wrong!
We are independant and free , unhappy about it? Try and invade , frankly you guys would have a hard time and we could get plenty good jets off russia!

I don't think they are implying that the U.S. can or should dictate you�re countries for you but I think in the long run for U.S. security and interests (of curse) and (I believe) for you�re safety in the future that it wouldn�t be wise to sell to the chinese. Not until they have proven themselves and not until they are so interwoven into you�re economies that you cannot make war with them.

I just believe that part of this has to do with money being flashed in their face. Being blinded by cash when in the near future the chinese may want to be the ones dictating to you in the future.
I think that in the end if they loose the U.S. and hitch a ride with china that it will be unstable and if they are lucky they will break even in terms of cash flow that they enjoyed with the U.S.


Anyhow, marry Christmas!

Originally posted by ChrisRT
I don't think they are implying that the U.S. can or should dictate you�re countries for you but I think in the long run for U.S. security and interests (of curse) and (I believe) for you�re safety in the future that it wouldn�t be wise to sell to the chinese. Not until they have proven themselves and not until they are so interwoven into you�re economies that you cannot make war with them.

Just who the hell are the US to tell us whats right for OUR safety?
This is the same country that has made false claims about WMD and bombed our own troops AND done many evils in the name of "national security" , when will it stop?? EH! when i ask!
You call the chinese not worthy of tradeing but we trade with a country that supported terrorists and supplied IRAQ with WMD. Chemical weapons i might add!

I just believe that part of this has to do with money being flashed in their face. Being blinded by cash when in the near future the chinese may want to be the ones dictating to you in the future.

Really? baseing this on first hand exsperience.

I think that in the end if they loose the U.S. and hitch a ride with china that it will be unstable and if they are lucky they will break even in terms of cash flow that they enjoyed with the U.S.

Anyhow, marry Christmas!

Why should we stick with a country that does what it wants but wont let others do what they want?
Some merry christmas for the lads of black watch!
God bless ya lads!

I don't see the US government rushing to impose trade restrictions and embargoes on Israel for doing the same thing
Only a mild rebuke and it's back to business as usual when Israel makes it clear they don't give a damn.

There are many US corporations that already take advantage of the cheap labour rates and low production costs the Chinese offer. Does anyone ever make a big fuss about that or the fact that Americans are losing their jobs with manufacturing being outsourced? Human rights don't enter the equation when there is money to be made so that argument is a non starter too.