US may withhold military technology from EU allies if they lift arms embargo on China.

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posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:00 PM
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Engaging 4 or so CBGs is suicide for ANY country. You are the only fool here...
Where they also researching ocean going tanks?


[edit on 24-12-2004 by ChrisRT]




posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:03 PM
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Ok guys this argument is pointless, you are letting your personal feelings get the better of you. If the US stops sharing weapons tech thats their right. But they must also respect our right to trade with whom we please.
The US sometimes takes their place in the world a little too seriously sometimes. Its one thing telling a small third world country what to do but if you try that with Europeans we tend to push back, as my hot blooded Scottish friend has demostrated. I have already said that its a bad idea to sell to China, but you must admit that it is not the US's place to tell us what to do.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by ChrisRT
Engaging 4 or so CBGs is suicide for ANY country. You are the only fool here...
Where they also researching ocean going tanks?


[edit on 24-12-2004 by ChrisRT]


Mind you, I said "had you not been an ocean away." You wouldn't have missed that if you read the post, correct?

If America was as strong as you would like to believe, Hitler would have shipped the tanks over to America for a surprise attack. Blitzkrieg would have completely destroyed America - just as it destroyed France. And you know what's more? France was stronger than America
.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:08 PM
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^^^ We are talking WW2 here? Oh, no... The U.S. was by far nothing... It only had the infrastructure for a strong, solid economy. By no means was its military of any worth...
Its quite the opposite nowadays, no?



Janus, I agree with you, however, I cant stand people that know little to nothing about a military want to downgrade it. Our economy and military might is easily seen at the many wars we have fought and prevailed in... I dont seen any ships getting sunk, any fighter/attackers getting blown from the skies and I dont see kill ratios anywhere near the favor of the opposing force. Not even in 'Nam or Korea... The numbers speak for themselves people, there is a reason we spend more money the next 35 or so countries on the list...

Its all just talk. Im sure you all know how mighty our military is. Its just up to you on whether you want to admit it or not


[edit on 24-12-2004 by ChrisRT]



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by ChrisRT
Huh? Whatever...

Oh whats that giveing up huh, seen the truth!




Oh quit fooling yourself...

Fooling myself that the USA is willing to kill civies to get what it wants?



We dont need you, you need us... You have a rosy concept of the world.. Its a crude reality and the ones that know how to run it will continue to do so while the others like you are somewhat a leach and in the middle. I dont know about the 30+ soldiers in Nam but you'd be a fool to think it was on purpose... you act like such a think would ruin a country


Well considering the bad press i think anyloss of face in that war would have soured US and UK relations.
The men died getting a hill americans said couldnt be taken, they died because american pilots hit the wrong target WHEN THE RIGHT TARGET WAS MARKED PERFECTLY CLEARLY!
You have no respect for the dead!

[edit on 24-12-2004 by devilwasp]



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by ChrisRT



Janus, I agree with you, however, I cant stand people that know little to nothing about a military want to downgrade it. Our economy and military might is easily seen at the many wars we have fought and prevailed in... I dont seen any ships getting sunk, any fighter/attackers getting blown from the skies and I dont see kill ratios anywhere near the favor of the opposing force. Not even in 'Nam or Korea... The numbers speak for themselves people, there is a reason we spend more money the next 35 or so countries on the list...

Its all just talk. Im sure you all know how mighty our military is. Its just up to you on whether you want to admit it or not


[edit on 24-12-2004 by ChrisRT]

Your last wars have been against things you created, funny how you always win huh?
Your military is trained poorly and its size is its only real good thing.
Take a US infantry squad and compare it to a sweedish infantry squad and the yanks will be beat.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:15 PM
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I served beside US forces both on exercise and on operations in the Balkans. I'm all too aware what the US can achieve militarily. I like Americans and made some good friends with some US Troops. I don't deny the US's contribution in WW2 either, but sometimes it grates a little when the US portrays its self as the sole winner of that war, Hollywood being the main culprit. The thing is it was a joint effort against a common evil, not ordinary Germans but the whole NAZI ideology. Its Christmas, cant we just put this on the back burner?



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by ChrisRT
^^^ We are talking WW2 here? Oh, no... The U.S. was by far nothing... It only had the infrastructure for a strong, solid economy. By no means was its military of any worth...
Its quite the opposite nowadays, no?


I haven't said your military is weak today, have I? I simply stated that you were not as strong as you wanted to believe during WW2, and Germany was not as weak as you wanted to believe during WW2. If you really think America was stronger than that, give me proof. Militarily and technologically, Germany was superior to America in every way. In fact, most of Europe was.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by ChrisRT
Engaging 4 or so CBGs is suicide for ANY country. You are the only fool here...
Where they also researching ocean going tanks?


[edit on 24-12-2004 by ChrisRT]


Umm lets see US carrier group VS european continent?
Now this is suggesting britain was beat.
Germany has air superiority, america has only Carrier based planes.
Germany can use any aircraft they want.
Germany has naval advantage.
Germany has tech advantage.
Germany has training advantage.
Germany has size advantage.
Not soo good looking.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by Janus
Its Christmas, cant we just put this on the back burner?

Yeah why are we argueing over something now?
Truce?



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by Janus
Its Christmas, cant we just put this on the back burner?

Yeah why are we argueing over something now?
Truce?



Agreed, and a merry Christmas to you all



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:20 PM
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Well considering the bad press i think anyloss of face in that war would have soured US and UK relations.
The men died getting a hill americans said couldnt be taken, they died because american pilots hit the wrong target WHEN THE RIGHT TARGET WAS MARKED PERFECTLY CLEARLY!
You have no respect for the dead!


Accidents happen, with our troops and with their troops.
You do NOT know me so do NOT make assumptions on what I respect and dont respect.




Oh whats that giveing up huh, seen the truth!


Sounded like jib to me, had I know you where talking about WW2 I would have agreed.




Fooling myself that the USA is willing to kill civies to get what it wants?


I maintain my stance, where are the bodies?





Your military is trained poorly and its size is its only real good thing.
Take a US infantry squad and compare it to a sweedish infantry squad and the yanks will be beat.


Our military is poorly trained? You shouldnt speak of that which you do not know.





I don't deny the US's contribution in WW2 either, but sometimes it grates a little when the US portrays its self as the sole winner of that war, Hollywood being the main culprit.


Only the uninformed fools believe that we where the winner... We came up and cleaned up the mess after everyone was somewhat wore our....



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by Janus
I served beside US forces both on exercise and on operations in the Balkans. I'm all too aware what the US can achieve militarily. I like Americans and made some good friends with some US Troops. I don't deny the US's contribution in WW2 either, but sometimes it grates a little when the US portrays its self as the sole winner of that war, Hollywood being the main culprit. The thing is it was a joint effort against a common evil, not ordinary Germans but the whole NAZI ideology.Its Christmas, cant we just put this on the back burner?


Bingo! You hit it on the spot. At least someone was able to comprehend the message I was trying to get across.

[edit on 24-12-2004 by Blackout]



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:27 PM
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I haven't said your military is weak today, have I? I simply stated that you were not as strong as you wanted to believe during WW2, and Germany was not as weak as you wanted to believe during WW2. If you really think America was stronger than that, give me proof. Militarily and technologically, Germany was superior to America in every way. In fact, most of Europe was.


No, lets get this strait... Americas military during World War 2 inferior to most, if not all modern countries.
We would have had a hard time with our military back then if we only relied on a few carriers. Today, send in 4 or so CBGs with sub, Aiges, and supply support and you will NOT win. No if, ands, or buts about it.




Its Christmas, cant we just put this on the back burner?
Yeah why are we argueing over something now?
Truce?


Hey, I wasnt trying to argue... I was trying to clear the facts. I want no hard tensions in the long run. We are just debating here, no?

And like I said before, merry Christmas to you all



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 09:35 PM
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Well its time for me to be away to bed, my two daughters will be up at the crack of dawn. Well i have enjoyed reading this thread i want to wish you all a happy Christmas and a safe and prosperous New Year.

Heres a little poem from the first world War, wrote not long after the famous Christmas Truce of 1914:

O ye who read this truthful rime
From Flanders, kneel and say:
God speed the time when every day
Shall be as Christmas Day.


God bless all.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 10:52 PM
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Silly way to go about things. Threats being issued. Already isolated, isolation is gonna get worse and Europe will get more co-ordinated to counter American perception of dominance. These guys need to talk and talk privately. There has to be consensus and compromise between the European countries and the US.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Well frankly your hurting us in the process and dont seem to give a damm!
It wouldnt matter if we wanted to deal or not we still get hurt.


oh so europe selling weapons to an enemy who likes to arm many of our other enemies isnt hurting us either? in the past such a thing would be considered an act of war, i dont see where you should complain, worst you'll suffer is lost money but we'll suffer dead americans from whatever enemy china sells weapons to, you dont seem to care what YOU are doing, i think we are just in this and your complaints are selfish, hell its OUR technology and we can do whatever we feel with it, if we feel it will threaten us to sell it to people who will sell it to our enemies then thats our right to stop selling it.

really lives vs money, you really think we should risk it just to not hurt you economically?



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Really?
so you would be happy for the price of your goods to go up?
The prices would go up because more products would have to be made and its more exspensive there than in some farr off country.


Well the United States imports $11 for every $100 of their GDP. That won't result in a HUGE price change. I'm not sure what the last sentance means.


Originally posted by devilwasp
Yeah and if there was no european allies there would be no US, remember the US couldnt invade with out a base aka the UK.
Germany would have smashed the US easily from afar.


What's your point? This has nothing to do with what I said about the United States being a hegemon.


Originally posted by devilwasp
Yet you dont want us selling weapons WE make to them?
Frankly the US is trying to stop anyone being equal with them.
The US does what it needs to do to stay on top, regardless of the losses.


This is not about being equal. The United States views China as a possible threat. I wouldn't want my "allies" selling weapons to my enemy either. It would be like having your best friend sell a gun to the guy down the street who glares at you when you walk by. Next thing you know, that same gun is the one responsible for your death.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 11:30 PM
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Germany was developing a missile system in france that would have rained rockets down on the entire eastern US 24/7

Most likely new york would have been destroyed along with philadelphia and washington

And this would be before a single german soldier landed in the US... they could have forced a surrender without a shot fired.

However they needed to finish off the UK and stabilise europe before they could do this... something which thankfully they never achieved.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by namehere
oh so europe selling weapons to an enemy who likes to arm many of our other enemies isnt hurting us either? in the past such a thing would be considered an act of war, i dont see where you should complain, worst you'll suffer is lost money but we'll suffer dead americans from whatever enemy china sells weapons to, you dont seem to care what YOU are doing, i think we are just in this and your complaints are selfish, hell its OUR technology and we can do whatever we feel with it, if we feel it will threaten us to sell it to people who will sell it to our enemies then thats our right to stop selling it.

really lives vs money, you really think we should risk it just to not hurt you economically?


If you are this critical of Europes plan to sell weapons to China, I hope you are even more critical of Israel.
Israel is China's second biggest supllier of military technology even though Israel the largest recipient of US foreign aid.

Read through this government report:

uscc.gov
Israel-China Military Transfers
As the Commission noted in its 2002 report, Israel was second
only to Russia as a weapons system provider to China and as a
conduit for sophisticated military technology. The Commission continues
to be concerned over Israeli transfers of U.S.-origin technology
to China....

According to a December 15, 2003, Defense News story, Israels MOD
(Ministry of Defense) recently granted more than a dozen licenses
for Israeli firms to market specific products and services in China,
industry officials here said. Israeli-developed systems proposed for
sale to Chinas Peoples Liberation Army include the Tavor personal
assault weapon, pilot training systems, advanced communication
and surveillance gear, and a range of unmanned aerial vehicles.
39
The Defense Department reports that Israel has sold a number
of HARPY unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) to China.40 The PLA
has apparently integrated the HARPY into its operational forces,
since they appeared in PLA exercises during 2002. The HARPY is
designed to detect, attack, and destroy radar emitters. These systems
pose a significant threat to various critical military C4ISR facilities
on Taiwan as well as to U.S. operational forces operating in
the region. The UAV has a range of about five hundred kilometers
and contains a high-explosive warhead.41



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