You know what they always say: One man's Messiah is another's Dajjal.

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I pretty much agree - the parallels are so uncanny that there almost certainly has to be something to them.

Here is where I first read about it, maybe it will help you get a better picture? (It isn't too too long a read.)

Edit: A bit off topic but in thinking about this I noticed that over and over again it is a story of brothers fighting for the affection of their father. And if I recall correctly, isn't there even like a Christian sect that thinks Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers? Mormons perhaps?

Mormons are not technically Christian, they are Mormon.

They even have their own Book of Mormon, that Joseph Smith claims the angel Moroni showed him on golden plates that he said he translated.

They do use the KJV if they read the Bible, and they do say that they believe in Jesus Christ. That angel on top of the Mormon Tabernacle in Salt Lake City is supposed to be Moroni.

That is a tough one, whether or not they are Christian because they do believe in some things of Christianity, but also believe Joseph Smith is their prophet. Well, they also believe Brigham Young was a prophet.

I think it is also Jehova's Witnesses that believe Jesus and Satan were spirit brothers.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I read this last night but haven't read most of the replies, so forgive me if this has been mentioned...

I think both sides are being played for the middle. Classic divide and conquer.

If these 3 figures appear, they're all impostors.

Revelation is written entirely in metaphor and was never meant to be taken literally.

a reply to: CretumOrbis

Well I can't prove that things will happen as disclosed in Revelation though I can show you that the Bible has an excellent prophetic track record. I will say that Revelation makes the most sense if taken literally. There are parts that are meant to be symbolic, but for the best interpretation of anything in Revelation, all one has to do is find the OT scriptures it references. Over 90% of Revelation is OT prophecy arranged into one big picture.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: CretumOrbis

Well I can't prove that things will happen as disclosed in Revelation though I can show you that the Bible has an excellent prophetic track record. I will say that Revelation makes the most sense if taken literally. There are parts that are meant to be symbolic, but for the best interpretation of anything in Revelation, all one has to do is find the OT scriptures it references. Over 90% of Revelation is OT prophecy arranged into one big picture.

Regarding Dajjal, let me show you a Hadith....

Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 71 :: Hadith 627Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "Neither Messiah (Ad-Dajjal) nor plague will enter Medina."Medicine

But then....look at this Quran verse

Surat At-Tawbah 9:31 They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

Hmm, big problem here, if the same Arabic word is used for Messiah, the Quran calling Jesus the Messiah, then the Hadith saying that Al Masiah is the Dajjal, there's a huge disconnect.

The Hadiths also say that Dajjal will have only one eye, the other bulging out like a grape. But the word kafir will be between his eyes.

But here is another strange Hadith...

The Book Pertaining to the Turmoil and Portents of the Last Hour (Kitab Al-Fitan wa Ashrat As-Sa`ah) Muslim :: Book 41 : Hadith 7034 Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Dajjal would be followed by seventy thousand Jews of Isfahan wearing Persian shawls.

Do you know what the problem here is? In the fervent zeal to Islamacize everywhere, they have actually disqualified this "prophecy" because according to the population of Jews in Iran, there are only 12,000, in the whole country of of Iran, so that means how many would be in Insfahan?

Oh my, maybe there should not have been so much fervor to make the whole country Islamic, so in order for this prophecy to be true, they better let a lot more people convert to Judaism so they can wear Persian shawls.

Their zeal has made this a worthless prophecy about Dajjal, there are not even 20,000 Jews in Iran, let alone the one city of Insfahan.

If Mohammed spoke truth from Allah, then where are all the Jews in order to fulfill this prophecy? Sounds like Allah needs to make more Jews in Iran.

originally posted by: Boeing777
a reply to: Isurrender73

The Quran mentions several times that God has not begotten a son and that there's nothing remotely similar to him. God is one, all-knowing, all-powerful and all-merciful This means that Isa/Jesus cannot be the son of God.

God said let their be light. This light was his son. His son is not begotten, because begotten is a 13th century word that translates to a human sexual type of birth.

So Jesus is not begotten, nor is he equal to his father. But Allah is his father. And Jesus/YHWH who molded the bird out of the dust and blew into it life also formed Adam out of dust and blew into him life. This according to the Koran, although mistranslated by some.

Jesus is the only son who God said "Be". We are son's of our king, our messiah, Jesus Christ. If we are obedient to the Holy Spirit we are adopted into the kingdom of heaven and accepted as children of Allah.

This is how to reconcile the three Abrahamic faiths.

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: Boeing777
a reply to: Isurrender73

The Quran mentions several times that God has not begotten a son and that there's nothing remotely similar to him. God is one, all-knowing, all-powerful and all-merciful This means that Isa/Jesus cannot be the son of God.

God said let their be light. This light was his son. His son is not begotten, because begotten is a 13th century word that translates to a human sexual type of birth.

So Jesus is not begotten, nor is he equal to his father. But Allah is his father. And Jesus/YHWH who molded the bird out of the dust and blew into it life also formed Adam out of dust and blew into him life. This according to the Koran, although mistranslated by some.

Jesus is the only son who God said "Be". We are son's of our king, our messiah, Jesus Christ. If we are obedient to the Holy Spirit we are adopted into the kingdom of heaven and accepted as children of Allah.

This is how to reconcile the three Abrahamic faiths.

Nope, the etymology of begotten, comes from beget, which was in usage long before the 13 century. Please remember that English is a newer language.

before 1000; Middle English begeten (see be-, get ); replacing Middle English biyeten, Old English begetan; cognate with Gothic bigitan, Old High German bigezzan

You kind of forgot that many of the words in the Bible's English came at a time when the Bible's English was still Germanic, French and Latin.

The Greek word was monogenés and meant

3439 monogenḗs (from 3411 /misthōtós, "one-and-only" and 1085 /génos, "offspring, stock") – properly, one-and-only; "one of a kind" – literally, "one (monos) of a class, genos" (the only of its kind).

Mono...meaning ONE /génos, of its kind.

YOU are not a monogenḗs. And if sex is the only way you understand how God works, then perhaps you don't understand God and all God has to say is "Be" as you said in your post. So how is it impossible for God to say be, and Jesus became that, in the womb of Mary? Have you limited God's ability?

The God that made the heavens and the earth at His command, and yet can't say for Jesus to be, without sex?
Jesus is the Word of God, made flesh and dwelt among men.

a reply to: Isurrender73

So Jesus is not begotten, nor is he equal to his father. But Allah is his father. And Jesus/YHWH who molded the bird out of the dust and blew into it life also formed Adam out of dust and blew into him life. This according to the Koran, although mistranslated by some. 

The Torah claims that YHWH is the only true God. So if you think Jesus is YHWH, then you either have to assume that the Bible or the Quran or both are in error. They can't both be true.

Deut 10:17 "For the LORD (YHWH) your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe

So not only is the Bible claiming that Jesus is YHWH, it also claims that He is above all gods. That includes Allah.

So you have a major kink in you logic to iron out. It's either Quran or Bible, you can't play both sides.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I agree. The chasm between the Quran and the Hadiths alone invalidates any potential of veracity of Islamic eschatology in my eyes. True Christians may disagree on the timing of Bible prophecy (preterism vs dispensationalism and all that's in between), but we all know that Jesus is God-the-Son and that our salvation is in His work on the cross...And we all read the same scriptures for the most part. Its not a matter of which Bible prophecies that we choose to believe, but rather how and when they will manifest.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Allah created Jesus/YWHW/ THE LIGHT all the same

Allah is Jesus's God.

Jesus/YWHW created us, he is our God.

We give birth to children , we are their God.

So many definitions of the word God. If an immortal creates an immortal they are a god. Thus it is said "You are God's"

The Koran clarifies what Jesus/YWHW said. That he was the son of Allah but not equal to, nor created by sexual intercourse.

You have to understand how prevalent historically it was for leaders to say the God's had sex with their mothers. The leaders claimed devine origin, with minds equal to the God's.

The verses against God having a begotten son only speak against this. Jesus did not claim to be equal.

Jesus is our God, because he fashioned us with his hands. But he was only doing what his father told him, so Allah is truly our God because everything in creation is according to his plan.

So none should be called God except Allah. Whatever Jesus is and whatever the prophets are, we are still God's creation.

In God's creation their is no room for arrogance, because even our messiah claimed he was nothing but Allah's creation. So we should not be arrogant.

a reply to: Isurrender73

So none should be called God except Allah. Whatever Jesus is and whatever the prophets are, we are still God's creation. 

That isn't what Deut 10:17 says. YHWH said I am your God, the Lord of lords and God of gods.

Don't turn this into a debate over semantics. If you believe the Bible to be inerrant, then Jesus/YHWH is above Allah, and Allah is not a part of the Trinity.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

He is above us in everything. Everything was created by him for him and through him. Yet he himself was created, because he said I have a father who created me.

This is not confusing, you just refuse to believe it. The three texts agree. The churches who need money do not, the books do.

Elohim/Allah created the Light, Jesus/YHWH is the Light. The Light created everything you see.

I have not diminished the value of the cross, nor the Holy Spirit. I have merely elevated the father above the son, because that is what Jesus said clearly. The church is ambiguous at best. His words in red are clear.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The Hadith is a lie, full of lies.

The Talmud is a lie, full of lies also.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, He is the beginning and the end. He was not created.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made....14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us...

Jesus was not created. He is the Word that was with God and is God. That's very different that what you're trying to say.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The Hadith is a lie, full of lies.

The Talmud is a lie, full of lies also.

The Mahdi will reveal the interpretation to the scriptures so that man will see that they agree.

So if you acknowledge that the Hadith is unreliable, then why do you believe in the Mahdi, who is only found in the Hadith?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The Koran says another messenger who will unite the three faiths will come. The Mahdi is just a title for that person. I accept that title simply because it is easier for others to understand. The Koran simply says the messenger will be a gentile.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Elohim said "Let thier be Light"
Jesus "I am the Light"

Why can't you HEAR this?

This matches Jesus calling Elohim his father. And if only part of the truth was revealed clearly in the OT, and another in the NT, and yet more in the Koran. Then we are waiting for the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

When we agree on who Christ is, the Revelation will be complete.

Jesus was not being confusing when he said we need to follow his father.

The trinity is very confusing and doesn't make since with much of what Christ said about his father and his relationship.

Believing he is the Light and Elohim is his father does make since according to what he said. He is our begging and end. It is only through him that we find our father. Jesus is the Messiah, the Koran agrees.

a reply to: Isurrender73

When God said let there be light, He was not creating light, but restoring the darkened universe. It has nothing to do with Jesus being created, because Jesus was the one saying, "Let there be light".

Read this, it will help you understand.

Between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 there is a very large gap of time. Jesus created the heavens and earth instantly, and after the struggle with Satan's fall, the heavens and earth became desolate and void. So God restored the heavens and earth in 6 days. It was already in existence.

Read this with the 6 day RESTORATION in mind rather than creation.

"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
(2 Pet 3:5-7 KJV)

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
(Genesis 1:2 KJV)

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You have to go past the scriptures to come up with that. Again, I'm saying something simple and clear, and you are directing me to something complex that goes past what is written.

What I believe is all contained within the scriptures. I don't need someones guess about what is not written clearly.

Anytime someone goes into details that become confusing and ambiguous that person is trying to make since out of what he doesn't understand.

I am not trying to make since out of anything. I am merely trusting what appears to be clearly written.

And what appears clearly is Jesus claiming that he had a father. The trinity is ambiguous and confusing, created by men who tried to explain what they couldn't understand.

a reply to: Isurrender73

First of all, its not a guess. If you truely knew and understood the bible prophecies you would know that there are 2 instances where the earth becomes void and without form: the first being the fall of Satan between Gen 1:1 and 1:2, and the second being the Return of Christ.

But what possition are you in to make a judgement if you are unwilling to examine the link I provided? Are you afraid that you might be wrong???

You are making your assumptions about Jesus based off of poorly written translations of the more original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. All one has to do is examine the scriptures you cited in their original language and context, and suddenly this giant castle of staw you have built around yourself comes tumbling down. At best, your interpretation is a gross stretch of a translation of a translation....and I dont see much support coming from your fellow Muslims, which either means you are the only one in this world with the truth, or you are your own deceiver. Which do you think is the case?

a reply to: Isurrender73

If you want to continue this conversation, then you have some reading to do. Till then, your bastardized version of 'Chrislam' is entirely unfounded. Good night.