Jesus taught Pacifism (there is never an excuse for violence/war)

a reply to: BennyHavensOh
I see. So do you think communion with the Divine while alive on Earth is fundamental to Jesus' Teaching, and if so, does such true heart-communion provide the necessary moral grounds for acting in life under all circumstances?

a reply to: arpgme

I'm happy you love God and Jesus as do I, But please don't fall into the "don't ever raise a hand and become a victim" category of mainstream Christians. Yes your bible quotes show peace but you have to understand the context and setting at that time and why this was even spoken. Jesus numerously had to calm down the people and the disciples at times because they wanted Jesus as king on earth but that was not God's plan for that era. Jesus spoke allot of those things to quell rebellion amongst his peoples and against the Roman empire. There's even a verse where Jesus gets in a boat to continue preaching just off the shoreline because the crowd on shore was getting unruly. And the Matthew 10:34 is correct it does not invalidate Jesus in any way. Understand that verse was never meant for Jesus's time frame but ours. In the last days you will have to defend yourself and family or die watching them raped and murdered. The bible clearly states a person that does not provide for their family is not worthy of heaven, self-defense is providing for your family.

1 Timothy 5:8

New International Version
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

New Living Translation
But those who won't care for their relatives, especially those in their own household, have denied the true faith. Such people are worse than unbelievers.

English Standard Version
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

New American Standard Bible
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

King James Bible
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But if anyone does not provide for his own, that is his own household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

International Standard Version
If anyone does not take care of his own relatives, especially his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Bible Verses on preserving life(Self-defense)

Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter.

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'

Exodus 22:2-3 2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

Nehemiah 4 17 Those who were rebuilding the wall and those who carried burdens took their load with one hand doing the work and the other holding a weapon. 18 As for the builders, each wore his sword girded at his side as he built, while the trumpeter stood near me. ... 21 So we carried on the work with half of them holding spears from dawn until the stars appeared. .... 23 So neither I, my brothers, my servants, nor the men of the guard who followed me, none of us removed our clothes, each took his weapon even to the water.

Esther 8:11-12 11 By these letters the king permitted the Jews who were in every city to gather together and protect their lives -- to destroy, kill, and annihilate all the forces of any people or province that would assault them, both little children and women, and to plunder their possessions...

Esther 9:1-5 ...the Jews themselves overpowered those who hated them. 2 The Jews gathered together in their cities throughout all the provinces of King Ahasuerus to lay hands on those who sought their harm. And no one could withstand them, because fear of them fell upon all people.... 5 Thus the Jews defeated all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, with slaughter and destruction,

THIS IS ON OF MY FAVORITE VERSES SHOWING A DIFFERENCE IN TIME FRAME AND CONTEXT. Jesus clearly states during his time with the disciples they didn't need moneybags or swords but yet Jesus himself refers to a time without him where they will need their moneybags and swords. THIS APPLY'S TO ALL AFTER JESUS DIED AND ROSE AGAIN....

Luke 22:35-39 And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." 36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 "For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end." 38 So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." 39 Coming out, He went to the Mount of Olives, as He was accustomed, and His disciples also followed Him.

I think I gave enough verses to prove the viewpoint of where the bible stands on this subject. And if you think Matthew 10:34 is phony then burn your bible as all other verses are then phony if this is still your mindset. As the bible was written by man for God by God for the people jew and gentile. The bible has been altered somewhat throughout time and those that have added or took away shall also have their names removed from the book of life written before the foundations of this world were even formed. I really hope this helps you and if not, don't rely on anyone but go to prayer with the Lord and he will answer you.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Revelation is a false prophecy because it contradicts the Gospels. He is not coming back to rule with an "iron rod" and does not have a sword for a tongue.

Paul believes salvation is through faith not of works, if that's true then there's no reason to follow Christ's teachings. He's another false prophet.

Ecclesiastes has nothing to do with Jesus. It's from another religion before he was born. It doesn't teach about the merciful heavenly Father because it's inspired by a pagan canaanite war god named yahweh/jehovah.

a reply to: arpgme

Prove it...what day did he say this? what time was it? and whole lot of good it did....look at all the killing that goes on in the name of religion. Do we really need some fictitious bible character to tell us this?

a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

Obviously, Christ needed to teach pacifism/mercy if people cause violence/wars in his name.

originally posted by: arpgme
Do not use weapons, those who use them will perish with them:

I wonder then why Jesus "made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts" John 2:15

a reply to: arpgme

He didn't do a very good job!

Luke 6:35-36 tells the truth about God. God is kind to all and if we want to follow God then we need to be merciful like him - full of mercy/love/forgiveness.

If it doesn't match with God's perfection then it isn't true. paul taught you don't need to follow Jesus because he already died for your sins. yahweh/jehovah is a jealous war "god".

You will know them by their fruits. yahweh/jehovah/paul wanted people to believe in a false wrathful Jesus instead of The Highest as mentioned in Luke 6:35-36.

a reply to: arpgme

Ahhhhh and now we have reached the crux of the issue!

You discount whatever doesn't fit with your interpretation and narrative, and put whatever you agree with on blast.

In my religion, we call that "cafeteria Catholicism"

a reply to: Shamrock6

Yahweh verses don't belong with Jesus. Jesus told followers of yahweh, "ye are of your father the devil". Jesus said he was a liar and murderer from the beginning. God is not death, God is Life and Heals. Jesus exposed yahweh/jehovah for what he truly is.

a reply to: arpgme

Are you sure about this?

Matthew 10:24 - "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Revelation 19:11

I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.

Yahweh's plan to make war on heaven and rule from Earth:

Isaiah 24

21
On that day Yahweh will punish heaven’s armies in heaven
and earth’s kings on earth.
22
They’ll be gathered like prisoners in a jail
and locked in prison.
After a long time they’ll be punished.
23
The moon will be embarrassed.
The sun will be ashamed,
because Yahweh Tsebaoth will rule
on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem.
He will be glorious
in the presence of his respected leaders.

Then why was Peter carrying a sword when Jesus was arrested?

a reply to: BetNun

I already explained those verses in previous posts. Yahweh/jehovah is not The Highest as taught in Luke 6:35-36.

The real God loves everyone and wants us to do the same. Mixing in yahweh with Jesus leads to worshiping a false Jesus/anti-christ.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
He never said ... 'be a doormat and let them slaughter you'.
You can protect yourself and sometimes that takes deadly force.

Except He did become a doormat and allowed himself to be slaughtered

originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: BennyHavensOh
I see. So do you think communion with the Divine while alive on Earth is fundamental to Jesus' Teaching, and if so, does such true heart-communion provide the necessary moral grounds for acting in life under all circumstances?

You ask questions with the vigor of youth, that is good to see. Yes, in fact I do working towards a relationship with the Creator is exactly what my Master had in mind when he shared His knowledge. Moral grounds, well that is an interesting subject and your avatar reminds me of my weaknesses in this regard, yet even that can be overcome. I do believe I have done so. However the morality issue is one thing when we apply it to our own lives and quite another when we preach it to others. I myself do not preach, it is not my calling. I do as I must and I leave others to judge me by my example, it is how I was trained, to lead by example. Sometimes I even get it right.

originally posted by: BlessedLore
a reply to: arpgme

I'm happy you love God and Jesus as do I, But please don't fall into the "don't ever raise a hand and become a victim" category of mainstream Christians. Yes your bible quotes show peace but you have to understand the context and setting at that time and why this was even spoken. Jesus numerously had to calm down the people and the disciples at times because they wanted Jesus as king on earth but that was not God's plan for that era. Jesus spoke allot of those things to quell rebellion amongst his peoples and against the Roman empire. There's even a verse where Jesus gets in a boat to continue preaching just off the shoreline because the crowd on shore was getting unruly. And the Matthew 10:34 is correct it does not invalidate Jesus in any way. Understand that verse was never meant for Jesus's time frame but ours. In the last days you will have to defend yourself and family or die watching them raped and murdered. The bible clearly states a person that does not provide for their family is not worthy of heaven, self-defense is providing for your family.

1 Timothy 5:8

New International Version
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

New Living Translation
But those who won't care for their relatives, especially those in their own household, have denied the true faith. Such people are worse than unbelievers.

English Standard Version
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

New American Standard Bible
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

King James Bible
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But if anyone does not provide for his own, that is his own household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

International Standard Version
If anyone does not take care of his own relatives, especially his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Bible Verses on preserving life(Self-defense)

Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter.

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'

Exodus 22:2-3 2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

Nehemiah 4 17 Those who were rebuilding the wall and those who carried burdens took their load with one hand doing the work and the other holding a weapon. 18 As for the builders, each wore his sword girded at his side as he built, while the trumpeter stood near me. ... 21 So we carried on the work with half of them holding spears from dawn until the stars appeared. .... 23 So neither I, my brothers, my servants, nor the men of the guard who followed me, none of us removed our clothes, each took his weapon even to the water.

Esther 8:11-12 11 By these letters the king permitted the Jews who were in every city to gather together and protect their lives -- to destroy, kill, and annihilate all the forces of any people or province that would assault them, both little children and women, and to plunder their possessions...

Esther 9:1-5 ...the Jews themselves overpowered those who hated them. 2 The Jews gathered together in their cities throughout all the provinces of King Ahasuerus to lay hands on those who sought their harm. And no one could withstand them, because fear of them fell upon all people.... 5 Thus the Jews defeated all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, with slaughter and destruction,

THIS IS ON OF MY FAVORITE VERSES SHOWING A DIFFERENCE IN TIME FRAME AND CONTEXT. Jesus clearly states during his time with the disciples they didn't need moneybags or swords but yet Jesus himself refers to a time without him where they will need their moneybags and swords. THIS APPLY'S TO ALL AFTER JESUS DIED AND ROSE AGAIN....

Luke 22:35-39 And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." 36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 "For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end." 38 So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." 39 Coming out, He went to the Mount of Olives, as He was accustomed, and His disciples also followed Him.

I think I gave enough verses to prove the viewpoint of where the bible stands on this subject. And if you think Matthew 10:34 is phony then burn your bible as all other verses are then phony if this is still your mindset. As the bible was written by man for God by God for the people jew and gentile. The bible has been altered somewhat throughout time and those that have added or took away shall also have their names removed from the book of life written before the foundations of this world were even formed. I really hope this helps you and if not, don't rely on anyone but go to prayer with the Lord and he will answer you.

I think you have used the old testament that is the old covenant to explain the new covenant under Christ. You have married to different sets of rules into one. You have blurred Christs teachings with the OT laws.

The only new testament evidence you have is theologically questionable, Christ is talking about His death and being executed as a rebel. The only reason Christ was allowed to be executed by the Romans was because his followers had a sword, just like the OT prophecy said and Jesus said
37 "For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end."

THIS APPLY'S ONLY TO JESUS, explain why you think it applies to all now....or should we just accept

a reply to: borntowatch

Hardly.

"The reason I came to earth is so I could give my life as ransom for many people."

Seems like he kind of knew what the end game was going to be. Would hardly call embracing that as being a doormat.

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
You ask questions with the vigor of youth, that is good to see.

LOL! At my age I will take that as a compliment! Thank you!

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
Yes, in fact I do working towards a relationship with the Creator is exactly what my Master had in mind when he shared His knowledge. Moral grounds, well that is an interesting subject and your avatar reminds me of my weaknesses in this regard, yet even that can be overcome. I do believe I have done so.

I think most of my posts bore people, so I included some eye-candy. But avert your eyes, if you must!

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
However the morality issue is one thing when we apply it to our own lives and quite another when we preach it to others. I myself do not preach, it is not my calling. I do as I must and I leave others to judge me by my example, it is how I was trained, to lead by example. Sometimes I even get it right.

That is admirable. Do you feel that Divine communion awakens an inherent morality in our hearts?

a reply to: Shamrock6

You are correct, no doormat but the Ultimate in Strength or better yet, Love...

originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
a reply to: Shamrock6

You are correct, no doormat but the Ultimate in Strength or better yet, Love...

Greater love hath no man....etc etc.

I would call it the ultimate in badassery before I would call it being a doormat.