Jesus taught Pacifism (there is never an excuse for violence/war)

originally posted by: FlyersFan
He never said ... 'be a doormat and let them slaughter you'.
You can protect yourself and sometimes that takes deadly force.

heh. jesus must have missed that memo. or maybe he was just particularly fond of the roman soldiers he should have defended himself against.

Romans 13.3

For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.

Matthew 21.12

Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: BetNun

I already explained those verses in previous posts. Yahweh/jehovah is not The Highest as taught in Luke 6:35-36.

The real God loves everyone and wants us to do the same. Mixing in yahweh with Jesus leads to worshiping a false Jesus/anti-christ.

I agree that Yahweh is not the most high. Jesus stated that the true Father is kind. Paul states that he is Love, then defines what love is. The trouble comes with this verse:

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

The Son is ALL things, including rulers, powers and authorities. You cannot name anything (like Yahweh / Satan ) that is not part of the Son of God. The story of refinement of the rulers and authorities are those powers ruling the Son. For HIM to rule, he must overcome his rulers. This is why I pointed out that Yahweh is the Ego to Rule and Satan is the conscience / accuser. By this, we all have the same pattern and design. We all have an Ego and Conscience to overcome and silence.

We can't subtract the Son from any ruler, power or authority. He IS the ruler, power and authority. He must overcome them to rule. We can't until he does.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Buffet style religion sure is convenient, isn't it? Take care now!

I find buffet style Christianity to be quite refreshing myself. There seems to be more thought involved.

Matt 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and revealed them to little children. 26Yes, Father, for this was your gracious will. 27All things have been handed over to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son decides to reveal him. 28Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke on you and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy to bear, and my load is not hard to carry.”

Sometimes I feel that those Christians who beat up on Apostle Paul and love to hate him, really don't know Paul.

1 Cor 3:21So then, no more boasting about mere mortals! For everything belongs to you, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future. Everything belongs to you, 23and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.

Paul himself gives permission for Christians not to follow Paul. He was a mere mortal. If some people want to follow the red letters of the Gospels only as their religion, who's to say that's not legit?

Moreover, these two verses speak of an allness, of all things. That should indicate a freedom to take from all of life and not just from a certain set of books.

And the reason I'm saying all this now is because it's my response to viewing Buffet style religion as flawed. Thank you for coining the phrase.

a reply to: pthena

1) I didn't coin it

2) you completely missed my point.

a reply to: Shamrock6

2) you completely missed my point.

I agree with the point you made, and your use of "badass".

Whoever coined the phrase, I think it's kind of cool that it's out there.

ETA

I see what you mean now, people don't get to spin what you say and then say that's what you meant.

a reply to: BetNun

Great post, I agree with you. In the same way that we cannot overcome the rulers until he does, he cannot overcome them until we do as well. We are him after all.

I'm liking your train of thoughts.

originally posted by: pthena

Sometimes I feel that those Christians who beat up on Apostle Paul and love to hate him, really don't know Paul.

1 Cor 3:21So then, no more boasting about mere mortals! For everything belongs to you, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future. Everything belongs to you, 23and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.

Paul himself gives permission for Christians not to follow Paul. He was a mere mortal. If some people want to follow the red letters of the Gospels only as their religion, who's to say that's not legit?
…….

And the reason I'm saying all this now is because it's my response to viewing Buffet style religion as flawed. Thank you for coining the phrase.

How true!!! …I hate Jimmy Buffet style .It’s derivative and sophomoric humo…oh…. that buffet style…on that note…

Thank you for being the “good “ Cap’n Obvious.I was going to respond to the OP but I couldn’t do it.I would be like scolding an imbecile for picking his buggers and gnoshing on them…wait wait!… did I just call the OP an imbecile…..word check………..YES!!!… I did, I did!

Why the Paul haters cannot see this obvious disconnect is mind boggling.It will take a former Christian turned deplorable ,despicable heathen like you( I say that with utmost respect) to point out the obvious.Please bonk them on their pumpkin head for me “in love” because I don’t even want to get close to them for fear of the spittle and frothings drenching me like green slime because I don’t have a preposterously, ridiculous doctrine proof mac.

To quote that false prophet, liar, idiot, Paul

"..charity, hope and faith…abide in these three but the greatest of these is charity".

what a crock of #!!! ..mmmmmm!!….bon a petite

a reply to: Rex282

Good a little?

Bon a petite?

Sorry, just had to say it.

a reply to: pthena

Yes, you are correct.

It's not Paul, it's not Peter, it's not Obama, it's not Ron Paul, it's not Bette Midler and it isn't even Elvis Presley.

But I never had a problem with Paul or Peter. That's why I am often quoting what both said. I mean it's like some Christians don't even realize that Peter wrote letters also. And James, wow, does he get overlooked sometimes.

How about Titus and Philemon? OK, so they were also letters written by Paul. You know, I bet that there are a lot of Christians who can't even tell us one verse in Philemon.

Philemon: 3 Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 4 I thank my God, making mention of thee always in my prayers, 5 Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints; 6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

a reply to: Rex282

It will take a former Christian turned deplorable ,despicable heathen like you( I say that with utmost respect) to point out the obvious.

There's a name for people like me, worse than heathen I'm afraid.

Hebrews 6:4For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, 6and then have committed apostasy, to renew them again to repentance, since they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again and holding him up to contempt.

But thanks to you giving me the term Duplicitous Jesus, which I've meditated upon, I have no fear. Just because the author of the Letter to Hebrews thought that I would crucify the Son of God for myself doesn't make it so. If freedom from the Law is a good, how much better freedom from the "gospel". And bonus! Kaching ! I don't even have to resent him his opinion.

I've read the Gospels enough to know how the Protagonist ( see how I avoid names ) met and talked to people. I have no problem having a peer to peer discussion with him. see how far I've fallen into blasphemy. But that's some one else's word, not his.

Right at the moment I have a respiratory infection. Makes me a little short winded, a little poor in spirit. And it has been written: "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

I suppose once the medicine kicks in, I'll just have to hand it over. Great while it lasts though.

Thank you for the Duplicitous Jesus concept, makes it easier to see the contrast.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Thank you Milady,

I was hoping that you would focus on this part:

Moreover, these two verses speak of an allness, of all things. That should indicate a freedom to take from all of life and not just from a certain set of books.

The Paul haters are a group that you aren't a part of.

a reply to: Rex282

So I'm an imbecile because I said Jesus promoted pacifism and gave Gospel verses from his own words which supported such. The real Jesus does not believe in (follow) yahweh. You want to change Jesus name from Y[e]shua (Salvation), to yahushua (salvation of yahweh). You believe in the 'god' of those who hated Jesus and wanted him killed for blasphemy against their 'god' yahweh, so it makes sense why you would insult the real Jesus Yeshua and call those who follow his teachings "imbecile".

I will not insult you back, though. I learned from the real Jesus to turn the other check.
Have a nice day.

By the way, this thread is not about Paul and I didn't call him an idiot or liar, just that he is a prophet of yahweh and not the real Jesus, in that sense, he is a false prophet for those who believe in Jesus. Sure, he mentioned Love, but then he said Jesus already died for everyone's sins so loving works don't matter, only the "grace" of forgiveness of sins through the "blood sacrifice". If someone needed to die for forgiveness to be given then it is not real forgiveness.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I didn't say that you said forgiveness is "badass". I said "rename it as" such. Christ did not come to go on a suicide mission to be a "blood sacrifice" so The Heavenly Father can be satisfied through the bloodshed and finally offer forgiveness (which would not be forgiveness, if he needed someone to be killed first). He came to bring Light to the world by teaching love/forgiveness, not a "badass" suicide mission.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: WarminIndy

Thank you Milady,

I was hoping that you would focus on this part:

Moreover, these two verses speak of an allness, of all things. That should indicate a freedom to take from all of life and not just from a certain set of books.

The Paul haters are a group that you aren't a part of.

Even the Book of Jude mentions Enoch, therefore I would also be inclined to read the Book of Enoch.

There are some though who are indeed completely Paul believers, yet they do miss out on things Paul said. Like for instance, there are some who would feel no shame in telling me to shut up because I am a woman. They use that verse "let the women be silent in the churches, if they are to be taught, let them be taught by their husbands"....well, my response is "Am I married to you????".....

I can imagine Paul sitting sometimes alone with his head in his hands, facepalming himself. What the Paul haters and the Paul lovers don't realize is that Paul sometimes said things were his own opinions. And we don't have to agree with his opinions.

I one time said to a man who told me to shut up, I said "so let me ask you this, if you believe everything in the Bible, then tell me if this is true....

1 Timothy 2:15 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

...then am I saved if I have children?" He replied "shut up!".

I don't have children so that means that guess what...if I were to take Paul's opinion in that, because he opened that with

1 Timothy 2 :1 I exhort therefore

. That means it was Paul's opinion and I am not obligated to follow that if I choose not to. I can agree or not agree with him. But I don't hate Paul, he gave his opinion and told us that we don't have to agree with his opinions.

We also have to remember that those people Paul was preaching to were recent converts from Roman and Greek religious sects (it also is diverse) and Jewish converts. Christianity was not well-established at that time, well, it wasn't even established yet, it was still basically a new movement.

So I ask those hardliners (hardliner is a term for someone stuck so hard in one particular line of thought), can I never be saved because I don't have children?

I am not obligated to Paul's opinion and Paul's opinion should have never become church doctrine, because people failed to read everything he said and only grabbed parts that made it seem to give them authority. But as far as hating Paul, he was just a man with an opinion. And if Paul even placed his opinion over all women then he would not have mentioned the prophetesses. Sometimes people are in conflict with that, so they disregard it and say those women weren't in authority or they were not teaching men.

I'm a woman who has been told to shut up. LOL.

a reply to: WarminIndy

May I just clarify my above statement...

I should only agree with Paul where Paul agrees with Jesus. I hope this makes more sense.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I am not obligated to Paul's opinion and Paul's opinion should have never become church doctrine, because people failed to read everything he said and only grabbed parts that made it seem to give them authority.

Would it help if I told you that I&II Timothy and Titus were not written by Paul? That they are in fact Pseudepigrapha? Written at a time after churches were organized and don't reflect Paul's time at all? Aren't those the main source used to tell women to shut up?

Textual criticism is an art and science neglected to our own hurt.

Paul didn't only name women prophets, he mentions an apostle too. I do believe his Aunt was an apostle before him.

As for saved, I don't really know what that even means in most people's views. Didn't you notice how I used respiratory infection to give myself the kingdom of heaven? That's big medicine. Compare that to Tom Bombadil when he takes the dread one ring that can bring invisibility and throws it in the air and makes it disappear. To him, in his own territory it was an insignificant relic.

Thank you for the blessing. I'm breathing easier now, so I'll give up the kingdom of heaven. Others should get a chance to benefit from it.

I should only agree with Paul where Paul agrees with Jesus. I hope this makes more sense.

You don't have to agree with anyone. Don't you argue with Jesus sometimes?

a reply to: pthena

You know, it is quite funny, I have never read nor seen Lord of the Rings and had to look up Tom Bombadil.

And I believe Jesus knows more than me.

But what I do not understand, I always ask. I do say "Jesus, that doesn't make sense to me", and then it might take minutes or years, depending on what point of life I am at to get an understanding.

I am currently trying to draw a portrait with my Wacom Bamboo pen tablet. I am calling it "The Burden of Tamar". I'm kind of conflicted as to how much clothing to put on her. Part of me is trying to be sensitive to some peoples' modesty and the other part of my says to tell the whole story.

Tamar is invisible but not insignificant.

a reply to: WarminIndy

never read nor seen Lord of the Rings and had to look up Tom Bombadil.

He was left out of the movie. I imagine no director could figure out how he should be portrayed without him stealing the whole show.

I believe Jesus knows more than me.

That's a possibility. Different experience brings different knowledge.

I'm kind of conflicted as to how much clothing to put on her. Part of me is trying to be sensitive to some peoples' modesty and the other part of my says to tell the whole story.

That would depend on the location; outside or inside. I'm sure her disguise involved much clothing; face obscured, maybe only one leg partially showing.

Even inside scene could be clothing still on, skirt pulled up, face still obscured.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.

On the other hand, if you leave Judah out of the picture altogether, she can be doing her normal everyday chores with no mask on.

How about this:
Tamar sitting under a tree, thinking of what to do. [snapshot] the very instant of "That's it! I know what I'm going to do" nice title for the portrait too.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: WarminIndy

never read nor seen Lord of the Rings and had to look up Tom Bombadil.

He was left out of the movie. I imagine no director could figure out how he should be portrayed without him stealing the whole show.

I believe Jesus knows more than me.

That's a possibility. Different experience brings different knowledge.

I'm kind of conflicted as to how much clothing to put on her. Part of me is trying to be sensitive to some peoples' modesty and the other part of my says to tell the whole story.

That would depend on the location; outside or inside. I'm sure her disguise involved much clothing; face obscured, maybe only one leg partially showing.

Even inside scene could be clothing still on, skirt pulled up, face still obscured.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.

On the other hand, if you leave Judah out of the picture altogether, she can be doing her normal everyday chores with no mask on.

How about this:
Tamar sitting under a tree, thinking of what to do. [snapshot] the very instant of "That's it! I know what I'm going to do" nice title for the portrait too.

LOL, two different Tamars. I was talking about the sister of Abinadab and Amnon, the daughter who was raped by her brother and the other brother killing him for it.

But hey, I suppose the Judah one might also work. She really wasn't a prostitute, Judah just thought he could get by with being with one. So who is the whoremonger now, Judah?

Judah, man whore. Yes, I said that on ATS.

But then again, yes, the Tamar you mentioned is an ancestress of Jesus. No one hides that fact.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Rex282

It will take a former Christian turned deplorable ,despicable heathen like you( I say that with utmost respect) to point out the obvious.

There's a name for people like me, worse than heathen I'm afraid.

Hebrews 6:4For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, 6and then have committed apostasy, to renew them again to repentance, since they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again and holding him up to contempt.

But thanks to you giving me the term Duplicitous Jesus, which I've meditated upon, I have no fear. Just because the author of the Letter to Hebrews thought that I would crucify the Son of God for myself doesn't make it so. If freedom from the Law is a good, how much better freedom from the "gospel". And bonus! Kaching ! I don't even have to resent him his opinion.

Congrats √˜∫˜Ω≤˙©√ç≈@#*^!!$#(that is the proper name for you).You have received the gift of insight to the truth.Believe nothing written about “God”.If you want to know about math or history or science, books are a reasonable place to start.If you want to know the creator God books are the absolutely last and worse place to start or finish.

The scriptures purpose is one fold. A testimony that testifies of the Truth of Yahoshua…end of story.. book closed.It is not to “teach” it is not to enlighten,it is not to save,it is not the manual of life because there is no life in it! .It is a rock that establishes itself as evidence that… there is a rock!The minute you start thinking that rock is a magic Crystal that holds the power of the universe it will crush your head like a juicy zit.

originally posted by: pthena
I've read the Gospels enough to know how the Protagonist ( see how I avoid names ) met and talked to people. I have no problem having a peer to peer discussion with him. see how far I've fallen into blasphemy. But that's some one else's word, not his.

My condolences for your having to read the book.You’ll get better.Your blasphemy is dually noted.You will be forgiven (freed from bondage) when the remnants of religion fall out of your head.You can thank God they are almost gone.

originally posted by: pthena
Right at the moment I have a respiratory infection. Makes me a little short winded, a little poor in spirit. And it has been written: "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
I suppose once the medicine kicks in, I'll just have to hand it over. Great while it lasts though.

Typhoid Mary must have been Jesus “real”mother then.

originally posted by: pthena
Thank you for the Duplicitous Jesus concept, makes it easier to see the contrast.

hey…I like to give back when I can.Unfortunately the duplicitous Jesus is running around in a couple billion people head wreaking havoc and “loving” them to death.Just don’t kiss them..better yet stay away from them.They may cough some love up for you.