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Jesus taught Pacifism (there is never an excuse for violence/war)

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posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:53 PM
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No violence, eh? We need violence, thank you very much. It's the only way we're going to survive the Muslims.




posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

The difference is, Jesus brought many of his own teachings of Mercy which is not just plagiarism from older scrolls. Also, that verse contradicts all of the verses above. It doesn't belong.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

Matthew 26:52King James Version (KJV) 52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.


The rest of the story...

Luke 22 - 36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors. For the things concerning Me have an end.”

Jesus is the one who told him to buy the sword to start with. Notice also, he didn't tell him to get rid of the sword. He told him to put it away. And he had them buy swords to fulfill prophecy(self-fulfilling).

Peace and pacifism?

Matthew - 34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.

edit on 5/22/2015 by Klassified because: (no reason given)

edit on 5/22/2015 by Klassified because: grammar



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 03:04 PM
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OP, I too am convinced that Jesus, were He here with us today, would always advocate that we do not engage in violence against our fellow humans in every case or scenario. There are those who say that He would be ok with self defense, but I must disagree. I am sure He would have no problem with retreat, run away, or avoiding it in any other way, but not violence. It is a difficult stance to take for most will attack those who take it. When we were soldering there were many arguments on how and where and why killing was justified and while the arguments were all very interesting and compelling, most of those we were trained to ate and kill were simply at the whim of our leaders. I did and will always believe that Jesus would never give His consent to any form of violence. When He said that He had come to bring discord between members of family He was referring to the conflict that arose when those who believe in the Son of Man ran up against those who did not, yet He did not speak of violence as an argument. This is a difficult concept for those who would choose to follow Him to deal with, for violence is inherent in our system. We live in a country that inflicts its will upon the World through violence, our children play violent games, we play at violence ourselves for entertainment. Indeed many will be called but few will be chosen.

www.youtube.com...



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 03:10 PM
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If someone is threatening physical violence to myself or others near me, I will do whatever is necessary and possible to restrain them. No more, no less.

This can be done without losing one's felt sense of unity and love, and is not inherently contrary to being in communion with the Divine.

In fact, such real, in-life communion will move you to do whatever the appropriate in-life action is - without being burdened by all sorts of pre-conceived notions, mental beliefs, and false separative presumptions.

edit on 5/22/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 03:12 PM
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originally posted by: Restricted
No violence, eh? We need violence, thank you very much. It's the only way we're going to survive the Muslims.


by fighting fire with gasoline?



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

You mean you've read stories written by men who say "this is what Jesus said and did."

There is no rebuttal to that. Jesus didn't write the bible. Any of it. His followers did. So if you're going to argue that one book is "just" written by somebody who "probably" had an agenda, the same can be said of the bible.

You choose to ignore that, because you have faith. And I'm not knocking your faith. It's yours. But at the end of the day, you have faith in the writings of men. Some men, but not others.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 03:35 PM
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originally posted by: arpgme

a reply to: works4dhs

But John The Baptist is not Jesus, and OT rules about revenge contradict the verses mentioned above in the Original Post about loving enemies, forgiving them, turning the other cheek, etc.


Jesus did not supercede JBap's theology.
OT verses on revenge etc are basically the local legal/judicial system. If A had a rogue bull that gored B's bull, A was required to make restitution. They did not have jails etc back then.
Nothing in the OT forbids forgiveness.
Turning cheek etc is in regard to personal conflict/insults. big diff between somebody smacking you on the cheek and punching you in the nose with intent to hurt.

in re; Jesus 'bringing a sword'; I don't think He was boasting, I think He was lamenting. 'Unfortunately so many will reject me that my message will end up dividing people; I would prefer to unite everyone into one big happy family.'

The other verse, suggesting 'sell your cloak and buy a sword', I don't know about. maybe persecution will be so bad Christians will be required to fight for their lives.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: BennyHavensOh

Telling his followers not to draw the sword when he was captured by the soldier. Dying on the cross saying, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do". Plus, all of the verses I mentioned in the original post.

All of those teachings of Pacifism from Jesus, yet many do not practice it.

a reply to: works4dhs

OT doesn't teach pacifism. It doesn't say to turn the other cheek, it teaches show no pity: eye for eye, tooth for tooth. Jesus said not to follow that teaching, then taught turning the other cheek.
edit on 22-5-2015 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

When Jesus said that, he knew that he was going to die and ride again. His followers killing his captors would hinder that.

You interpret that to mean "be a pacifist" when it can just as easily be interpreted as "it must be done, so let it be done."



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

You are utterly ignoring the point, which is to be expected.

Your argument is that one book is not true, and had an agenda. My point is the same argument can be applied to the bible just as easily.

Because Jesus. Didn't. Write. It.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Actually, he said: "for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." So yes, he was teaching against weapons.

Sure, he didn't write it but some of his words were preserved.
edit on 22-5-2015 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

For those of us who believe in a Spirit and an existence that begins with the end of our mortality, there is something important about not taking human life while we are here under our Earthly constraints though I cannot specify what exactly it is. Whether we contain souls or angels who have been sent here to be tested and/or trained it is critical that we follow the ways of the King of Angel, and that would be the Son of Man. It is only my belief and others have differing beliefs, which is as it should be. I am only responsible for one spirit and that would be the one within me...



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

Its annoying people continue to quote the bible to prove their perceptions and what they go by to be taught.

Everyone knows by now what this Jesus character was about.

You don't have to remind the masses.

But maybe remind the Jesuits. Society of Jesus, they love profit and war.

Kind of ironic.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 04:04 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: TzarChasm
matthew 10:34


"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. "For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;…




That quote does not necessarily indicate violence. In fact, there are many conversations here that illustrate its full context perfectly, even among believers you never find full peace and agreement.

And for the family where there is a believer among unbelievers or vice versa, there can often be discord such that sometimes even the whole family splits.

Bit it does not necessarily imply actual physical violence.

And of course, for those Christians living in the ME today, the ones we see on those sick ISIS snuff vids, his Gospel has brought the sword, but maybe not in the way you were implying. Yes?


"does not necessarily imply" is longhand for "open to interpretation". which means any of us could be right. which is then used as justification for assuming we are all right. hence 4,000 denominations that all disagree with one another on some level but are all equally valid. somehow.


Does it say "strike off their heads?"

Read the full context of the verse - Matthew 10:


Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24 “The student is not above the teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25 It is enough for students to be like their teachers, and servants like their masters. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members of his household!

26 “So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn


“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

36
a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

40 “Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. 41 Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. 42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”


As you can see, the verse in full context is Christ sending out his Apostles to bring the Gospel. Jesus never instructs them to violence, but warns them that violence will come on account of what they say because the Gospel's teachings are divisive and will be controversial to all who hear them both in that day and continuing on to this one.

edit on 22-5-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 04:07 PM
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a reply to: Elementalist

Not just the society of "Jesus", but many Christians are causing others to see Christ in a negative way instead of Merciful like The Father in Heaven.

Many people have anger/wrath, but Mercy and Pacifism is of The Spirit.
edit on 22-5-2015 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: BennyHavensOh
For those of us who believe in a Spirit and an existence that begins with the end of our mortality...

Why does such an existence only begin with the end of the physical life? Didn't Jesus teach that one should love the Lord with the whole body-mind, heart, and spirit in daily life? Isn't this communion with the Divine all about one's spiritual existence on Earth right now?

Isn't such heart-communion with the Divine, the true basis for morality rather than all kinds of conceptual interpretations of proposed mental belief systems?
edit on 5/22/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

Some of his words, including the ones you quote, were written down by men. Not Jesus.

But it's difference, because Jesus.

revelations 19:15

Ecclesiastes 3:1

Matthew 11:12

Romans 12:9

2 Timothy 2:22

Not that I expect any of that to resonate with you. Because your mind is made up, and when it comes to one's faith, that's the end of it. How you can claim a guy who's going to come back and rule "with an iron rod" and vent his "fury" on the world and has a sword for a tongue is a pacifist is pretty odd.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Elementalist

Not just the society of "Jesus", but many Christians are causing others to see Christ in a negative way instead of Merciful like The Father in Heaven.

Many people have anger/wrath, but Mercy and Pacifism is of The Spirit.


Yes, well that's because too many people want to believe that merciful is equivalent to all-permissive.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: bb23108

Excuse me, I was not specific. What I was speaking of was the transition of the physical/spiritual existence into the spiritual only. There is no reason that we cannot enjoy the human experience every day that it is ours to live and doing it through the example of my Master is just my way, not necessarily the high way.




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