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Jesus taught Pacifism (there is never an excuse for violence/war)

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posted on May, 22 2015 @ 12:42 PM
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He taught in these verses...

We should love our enemies, and God himself is kind to the good and evil so we should be merciful like him:


Luke 6:35-36King James Version (KJV)

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.


Do not use weapons, those who use them will perish with them:



Matthew 26:52King James Version (KJV)

52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.


When someone hurts you, do not seek revenge but forgive:



Matthew 5:38-39King James Version (KJV)

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.



Love your enemies, pray for them for those who use you and hurt (persecute) you, if you only love those who love you, then what is your reward?:



Matthew 5:44-46King James Version (KJV)

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?


These verses teach that violence is always wrong. If people actually followed these verses there would be no wars, there would be peace. Violence brings violence. Peace brings peace.




posted on May, 22 2015 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

But what about self defense? There are times we have to use deadly force to defend ourselves.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

here's the problem with that:

he also said if the military requests/demands your services, don't turn them down.
if the government wants your taxes, don't turn them down. render onto caesar what is caesar's
don't steal.
don't lie.

these are not compatible if the government or the military asks you to kill or lie for them or if the government asks you to take another person's money in taxes (that's called stealing). contradiction - render, don't render; kill, don't kill; steal, don't steal.

protestant christianity is just about the only form of religion on the planet, where you are not authorized by the clergy, to lie about anything. pretty much every other religion is not only authorized but encouraged to lie in defense of the religion (which can be very broadly defined, locally).

from what i can tell, protestant christianity is the closest to jesus' teachings and also the least likely to survive in life or death situations, barring acts of god, of course, or a lapse in following jesus' teaching


edit on 22-5-2015 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 12:59 PM
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matthew 10:34


"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. "For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;…



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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Several soldiers asked John the Baptist what they should be doing. They were told, obey your orders and don't harass the civilians. Nothing about 'throw away your weapons and leave the military'.

We should be peaceful whenever possible but I don't see any prohibition on self-defense. 'strike on cheek' in the context is more an insult than an attack.

in the OT you could kill an attacker or trespasser with no guilt. Nothing in the NT supercedes that.

if everyone was pacifist there would be no need for police, military, etc, but real-world dictates the need for these. I don't see anything in the Bible suggesting that if the bad guys march in you stand by and let them take over.

I wouldn't smack my neighbor over a dispute but I'd be prepared to shoot an enemy in my country's defence. (six years in US Navy.)



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

This verse is a contradiction to the above verses and does not disprove that Jesus taught pacifism in those verse. Also, that verse is plagiarism from Micah 7:6.


a reply to: works4dhs

But John The Baptist is not Jesus, and OT rules about revenge contradict the verses mentioned above in the Original Post about loving enemies, forgiving them, turning the other cheek, etc.
edit on 22-5-2015 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

The real Matthew 10:34:



Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.


I'm all for the good messages the bible has to offer, but they could easily add a chapter called the book of contradictions.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: Thecakeisalie

That verse is plagiarism from the scroll of Micah. They probably said Jesus said that to get more Jewish converts.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

He has definitely done that, all the holy wars fought in his name are proof, but was he saying that that was his personal intention or was he saying that that's what his name would lead to from no fault of his own?

His words were meant to bring peace but he knew those in power would use his name (not his words) to wage wars.

That's my personal opinion on that particular verse.
edit on 5/22/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

Absolutely!!!

Jesus gave us just one commandment: "A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; even as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." John 13:34

Violence is not love. Violence should always be the absolute last resort... if then.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:32 PM
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He never said ... 'be a doormat and let them slaughter you'.
You can protect yourself and sometimes that takes deadly force.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:36 PM
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I think the Religious Right, Republicans, and George Bush missed that memo Brah.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

No...that's matthew 10:34. I used the King James Bible version. Here are some other links that state the same passage.

Bible gateway

Meeting with Christ

And here's a detailed look of the possible meaning of the passage:



By the "sword" may be meant the Gospel, which is the means of dividing and separating the people of Christ from the men of the world, and from their principles and practices, and one relation from another; as also of divisions, discords, and persecutions arising from it


In other words segregation.



edit on 22-5-2015 by Thecakeisalie because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
matthew 10:34


"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. "For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;…




That quote does not necessarily indicate violence. In fact, there are many conversations here that illustrate its full context perfectly, even among believers you never find full peace and agreement.

And for the family where there is a believer among unbelievers or vice versa, there can often be discord such that sometimes even the whole family splits.

Bit it does not necessarily imply actual physical violence.

And of course, for those Christians living in the ME today, the ones we see on those sick ISIS snuff vids, his Gospel has brought the sword, but maybe not in the way you were implying. Yes?
edit on 22-5-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Using deadly force is against those verses mentioned.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Yes, it's Matthew 10:34. Yes, it's a plagiarism from Micah 7:6.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: starwarsisreal

That is when Christian Martyrs are born, they did not use any deadly force to defend themselves but put themselves in God's hand's and like Yeshua on the Crucifix they commited there soul's through faith to him.

There is a reckoning with god though, ISIS are in very deep trouble.

Excerpt from Revelation.

Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Romans

Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord. 20"BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

www.net-burst.net...

The hardest part is fighting yourself in order to achieve this state of christian grace, I admit I have not yet managed it and have hit back when attacked so I fall short as do most of us but there are those that have achieved this level of christian grace and so elevated there soul's through the blood and grace of christ.


But remember as well if you Forgive hypocritically so that god shall punish on your behalf then he will surely know this and such is not forgiveness, that is why you must sincerely pray for your enemy's too, and I have not done that much either even though I know in my self that God is there.

edit on 22-5-2015 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Also true but he did say let a soldier be content with his wage,. So no looting, raping, pillaging or unjust aggression and what nation in the world has managed to be so pure?.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: TzarChasm
matthew 10:34


"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. "For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;…




That quote does not necessarily indicate violence. In fact, there are many conversations here that illustrate its full context perfectly, even among believers you never find full peace and agreement.

And for the family where there is a believer among unbelievers or vice versa, there can often be discord such that sometimes even the whole family splits.

Bit it does not necessarily imply actual physical violence.

And of course, for those Christians living in the ME today, the ones we see on those sick ISIS snuff vids, his Gospel has brought the sword, but maybe not in the way you were implying. Yes?


"does not necessarily imply" is longhand for "open to interpretation". which means any of us could be right. which is then used as justification for assuming we are all right. hence 4,000 denominations that all disagree with one another on some level but are all equally valid. somehow.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

And the counterpoint to your whole OP, utilizing the very argument you just did, is that Jesus didn't write the bible. So the New Testament is what other people say Jesus said and did.

You can't claim that one person's writing is "probably" made up without acknowledging that the others are just as likely to be.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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There are some Universal truths in the bible that are basic principles, such as: don't build castles upon sand; people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, etc. all good sound logic.

I would really like if there was some book of Absolute Truths and Infinite Wisdom holding the key to Enlightenment and Universal Utopia, however the bible being written by men then rewritten various times, added to, censored and translated a few times, really isn't the religious teaching it suggests, unless that religion is the religion of following men.

The bible being full of nasty and contradictory hate should have given it away as less than appropriate for a book of wisdom to follow. That said, Christianity has influenced most of our laws and cultural heritage which has enabled stability, generally. Now that there are many that realise that most of the worlds religions are just empty shadows of man's ego, there is a natural reaction, a lack of ethics and morality the nature of which is similar to ''while the cat's away''. Though that sort of attitude is very destructive and ironically, of the very places mentioned in the bible such as hell, Sodom and Gomorrah etc. the chaos and ungodliness prior to the apocalypse.

Humanity is on the brink, it has taken the wrong path, it has been deceived and is on it's way to doom unless it gets on the right path again.

As a child I held Jesus in the highest regard, my hero, my life model, the ultimate saviour, and was a bit upset when I realised the true nature of the bible. Now I realise the comfort in the belief of such a saviour is it's universal appeal. If there is anything humanity needs now it is the ultimate saviour.
edit on 22-5-2015 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



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