Religion IS Malware

a reply to: WarminIndy

What is faith to you?

You posted it a few pages ago... Belief and trust in what he said...

And he did not say "Faith alone"... the doctrine of Jesus is clearly Faith + works = salvation

Not faith alone...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy

What is faith to you?

You posted it a few pages ago... Belief and trust in what he said...

And he did not say "Faith alone"... the doctrine of Jesus is clearly Faith + works = salvation

Not faith alone...

To me, faith is an active action word, not a passive action word. Some people take it as passive. Peter walked on water, if he could do that without even thinking about it, then we can as well.

Too many people are afraid to jump off the boat because of the waves, but I say, don't look at the waves.

a reply to: Akragon

Faith + works = salvation

What is salvation to you?

a reply to: pthena

In a word...

Progression... Whats next, only God knows...

I don't believe in the christian "heaven"... Especially if there are only christians there...

That would be hell...

a reply to: Akragon
Salvation to me is deliverance from delusion.

I looked up salvation in Wikipedia to see how it's put in the various religions.

Buddhism has freedom from pain and freedom from delusion.

My atomist epicurean philosophy has freedom from pain as the highest good. I'm not a good example of epicureanism.

Here is a song which should, because of my experiences, elicit a very strong painful emotional reaction, however, it doesn't much anymore, which lets me appreciate these following lines:

Sometimes I think it's a
shame
When I get feelin' better
when I'm feelin' no pain.
. . .
Sometimes I think it's a
sin
When I feel like I'm
winnin' when I'm losin'
again.


And here's the kicker. I reached this state by talking to Warminindy.

Talking to her is talking to Jesus.

For those of you still scratching your heads

I will explain:

A polytheist heathen has looked at your monotheism
and has tossed it back for you to catch.
How long will it lie on the floor?

Even those of you who hate Paul yet claim to love Jesus,
It is still in your scripture:

"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. 24"Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world

a reply to: WarminIndy

So while I would agree the passage has relevance it seems to me that you highlighted parts of the passage without really giving the context a good look.

Jesus is our Lord and Master, but the truth is not all of us are clean.

Now by us do you mean Christians, because that doesn't really follow from the above passage. The passage tells you why Jesus said not all of you are clean.

Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. 11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean. I feel like you took the ye are not all clean verse out of context a little bit to try and make a point thats not there, just my opinion.

we have a responsibility for being servants, because we are not greater than He who sent us

Again I don't think responsibility is the word we need to use here. Jesus didn't have a responsibility to save(wash) mankind. Jesus simply loves mankind and followed up on the action. Jesus was not obligated to extend the gift of salvation to us. As I said in the post you responded to...Jesus sculpts the Christian into something Good, and therefore loving actions should come out Christians solely based on the work Christ does inside of them. Meaning we do Good simply because we are in the process of becoming something Good.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Okay....what?
Sorry, I spaced out while reading that.
*yawn*

And this is why I didn't care to start a conversation with you. You pressure the conversation and then ignore what I wrote.


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I'm not as ignorant as you'd like to paint me to be, but - nice try. You just posted the same stuff. I was "churched" as a kid, don't forget. A Christian - an Episcopalian. I was baptized as an infant, I have godparents, I attended Sunday School, I was confirmed at age 12 or whatever, and married in a church. So, as far as my family and church was concerned, I am part of the Christian community. You might not like the doctrines or methods of the particular Christian Faith that my mom had us participate in - but that doesn't make me less of a person than you.

Yet you didn't explain to me why your interpretation of those verse is more correct. You act as though you already knew everything I said, but if thats the case why pretend like those verses you posted earlier should be interpreted as Good works=salvation. This is my point conversations with you are pointless because your not here to change your mind if the information requires it..you simply believe what suits you best.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

This is my point conversations with you are pointless because your not here to change your mind if the information requires it..you simply believe what suits you best.

And you are here to.....
what?

To "change my mind." You don't want a "conversation" - you want to lecture me. And you are right in one way - that I am not here to let a Bible thumper change my mind. If you don't want to do good works, then don't. Just keep saying "I believe, so I am saved." Because that's such a big help to society.

This issue is hotly debated amongst many, many Christians. Stop trying to make it like I'm the only one who thinks the way I do. If you want people to feel like crap while they're alive and burn in hell after they die, simply because they didn't "join your team", that's on you. If you want to be lazy and not do anything for others, that's also on you.

I don't want any part of it. And I don't believe Jesus would have, either. It's COMPLETELY self-serving, not compassionate participation in the plight of humanity. You are interested only in YOUR outcome. And I think that is lame.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

What was the problem with Judas? Can you sit here and tell me that we are all clean, when even Jesus said Himself one day He will say "I never knew you". And to whom did He say will that be said to?

You do all of this spiritual stuff, but you didn't feed people "I never knew you", you walk around telling people how to live but you didn't clothe the naked but "I never knew you".

How can we all be clean when even Jesus says that not all who call Him Lord will make it in? It's one thing to say you are a Christian and you have all the faith in the world, but what good is it when you don't even care about someone else?

Yes, it is our responsibility, because that is one of the things we will be judged for. Are you a Calvinist? You just told us about Limited Atonement.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

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And you are here to.....
what?

To "change my mind." You don't want a "conversation" - you want to lecture me. And you are right in one way - that I am not here to let a Bible thumper change my mind.

Kinda silly to say I am here to change your mind when I tried to leave the conversation alone, and you continued to pressure for a response to specific information. I gave you my response, and the reasons why I believe you interpreted the verse wrong. Rather than discuss the topic you pretended to be so interested in you sit and and act like a child. I am here to learn from everyone not just Christians. If the information requires my beliefs to change my beliefs change. I care about what is actually true not what I would like to be true.

If you don't want to do good works, then don't. Just keep saying "I believe, so I am saved." Because that's such a big help to society.

And now you have completely misrepresented my position. I never said I don't want to do good works. This is why conversations with you are silly you don't even try and understand the person your talking with...I atleast listen to what you say and try to accurately represent your position you however pull up strawmans such as the one above that don't even come close to what I believe.

This issue is hotly debated amongst many, many Christians. Stop trying to make it like I'm the only one who thinks the way I do. If you want people to feel like crap while they're alive and burn in hell after they die, simply because they didn't "join your team", that's on you. If you want to be lazy and not do anything for others, that's also on you

I disagree, and again you put a lot of words in my mouth. The vast majority of people who claim to be Christian believe in salvation by grace thru faith . In fact I am not aware of any denomination that teaches salvation is based on the actions of an individual, so please post the ones you are aware of.

I don't want any part of it. And I don't believe Jesus would have, either. It's COMPLETELY self-serving, not compassionate participation in the plight of humanity. You are interested only in YOUR outcome.

That simply untrue. I am interested in the true outcome....unlike you who enjoys subjective truth.

a reply to: WarminIndy

What was the problem with Judas? Can you sit here and tell me that we are all clean, when even Jesus said Himself one day He will say "I never knew you". And to whom did He say will that be said to?

The problem with Judas is mentioned in the passage you quoted....he would betray Jesus. Jesus was speaking to the disciples when he said ye are not all clean. The passage you quoted seems pretty clear, I am still unsure how you are reading that verse and find it to mean that there are legitmate Christians that are unclean. Now you have tried to cross reference this with Matthew 7:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"

Now Jesus says I never knew you to people who were preforming Good works, and offer good works as the reason Jesus should let them in to heaven. It is clearly saying that there will be people who think they can work their way into heaven and those people will be told "I never knew you." Again I don't see how you are reading that all people are unclean forever. All people are born unclean. Those that accept Jesus receive grace. These people are viewed as clean before God from there on out.

Cross reference John 6:
8Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" 29Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

The work of God is to trust in Christ. Christ takes over from there.

How can we all be clean when even Jesus says that not all who call Him Lord will make it in?

Just because someone says Jesus is Lord doesn't make the Christian. For example, Mormons say Jesus is Lord but its a totally different Jesus..We aren't all clean, but people who have accepted the doctrine of grace are clean.

It's one thing to say you are a Christian and you have all the faith in the world, but what good is it when you don't even care about someone else?

You have misrepresented my position in the same way as Buzzy. Go re-read what I said. You and I don't disagree that Good works are important. We disagree upon the motive behind our good works. You say the motive is because of God-given responsibility. I say the motive is Christ working inside you, and changing you to were you enjoy doing Good works simply because its who you have become. Hopefully that clears up my position. 1 peter 2 as I mentioned describes how I feel about the reason we are to do Good.

Yes, it is our responsibility, because that is one of the things we will be judged for. Are you a Calvinist? You just told us about Limited Atonement.

As I said I disagree with that motive, and I think its an impure motive. No I am not a Calvinist and at no point did I say or imply that Christ Atonement was for the select few. Christ died for the sins of the world(1 John 2:2) but without accepting Him you don't receive grace .

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Now Jesus says I never knew you to people who were preforming Good works, and offer good works as the reason Jesus should let them in to heaven.

You misunderstand that passage... read it again...

Did we not cast out demons in your name? did we not do this and that for you lord? they were doing good works for Jesus... and lacked any works for those who actually need it...

The people he will say "I never knew you" to, are people who choose who they do works for....

they lacked work

Faith alone is simply not the way Jesus taught

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

And GOD said....and JESUS said...and MARK said....and JOHN said and the BIBLE said and the TORAH said and the 10 commandments said? Really? Give me proof that the morons said these things....Why do you believe in the words of fictional characters....Alice and Wonderland has more truth!

Yes! the bible is a Virus.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you!

a reply to: Akragon

They all read the passages wrong because no matter how you read them they are all crap!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I wasn't trying to insult you, just that I have already stated my facts and reading other books to support me are not necessary...just like I do not need to have a religion with a bunch of fake crap to know what the truth is and it has nothing to do with faith either...there is only one truth and it doesn't need to be preached.

a reply to: pthena

Religion existed long before JESUS or any of his so called apostles from the last supper, in fact, the same christians that kill in the name of their GOD praise be whoever are actually killing people that they started their religion after and was derived from Judaism. Religion is idiotic.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Exactly....and they think they know what he looked like just like all the other fictional characters, like any of them actually saw him oh wait the famous shroud of turrin looks just like him, you know the one they claim they have carbon dated with the exact carbon dating they claim is not accurate....it is all just one big LIE and yet here we are in my thread still trying to justify all these supposed facts about something that has less truth in it than the 911 report from nist and we all know how long ago that happened.