Religion IS Malware

a reply to: WarminIndy

But this guy was from the Church of Christ, but not all people from the Church of Christ are like that, maybe there was something emotional for him about dead people, maybe he just had a loved one who died. I don't know.

About ten years ago I was working as a parent educator, making house calls to first-time parents to help them with their infants/toddlers. One of my coworkers and I were driving to a meeting, and she asked if I was a Christian.

I said "Yeah, I was raised Episcopalian".
Then she said "I go to the Church of Christ. You're not a Christian."

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: WarminIndy

But this guy was from the Church of Christ, but not all people from the Church of Christ are like that, maybe there was something emotional for him about dead people, maybe he just had a loved one who died. I don't know.

About ten years ago I was working as a parent educator, making house calls to first-time parents to help them with their infants/toddlers. One of my coworkers and I were driving to a meeting, and she asked if I was a Christian.

I said "Yeah, I was raised Episcopalian".
Then she said "I go to the Church of Christ. You're not a Christian."

That deserves a face palm.

Isn't Episcopalian from the term Episcopos (something like that) which is Greek for Presbytry?

Wait, no, it is from Joe Piscopo...I think???

a reply to: WarminIndy

LOL!!!

Yeah, I don't really know a huge amount about the differences between Lutheran and Episcopal and Presbyterian......
I know they all have their various 'doctrinal teachings'. My dad was raised in a very strict Lutheran family - he DESPISED religion. Anyway, those are the traditional "Protestant" churches, where the schisms all began.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Southern Baptists speak in tongues????? Whaaa???? Since when?

It must have been an Apostolic Pentecostal tent meeting.

Maybe, I don't really recall. All I remember is that it was frightening to me.
I was about 12. It was so foreign to anything I had experienced before that I still remember it....how traumatic it was to be told that stuff. It was just like "Jesus Camp" (that is some scary-arse stuff!)

I guess at that point I mentally "lumped together" all of the Evangelical-type religions. Baptist, Pentecostal, SDAs, etc.....
they all seemed insane to me. Still do. All of the modern "televangelists" and the past ones: the Tammy Faye/Jim Bakker types, Pat Robertson's 700 club, Jerry Falwell, etc. All seem the same to me - shaming, condemning, belittling, and hissing at people for being who they are.

So - now you know more about how I got to where I am. Though I doubt our 22-year-old correspondent here is still reading.


YOU, however, I really appreciate. We've been friends for a while now, and I appreciate that.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: WarminIndy

Southern Baptists speak in tongues????? Whaaa???? Since when?

It must have been an Apostolic Pentecostal tent meeting.

Maybe, I don't really recall. All I remember is that it was frightening to me.
I was about 12. It was so foreign to anything I had experienced before that I still remember it....how traumatic it was to be told that stuff.

I guess at that point I mentally "lumped together" all of the Evangelical-type religions. Baptist, Pentecostal, SDAs, etc.....
they all seemed insane to me. Still do. All of the modern "televangelists" and the past ones: the Tammy Faye/Jim Bakker types, Pat Robertson's 700 club, Jerry Falwell, etc. All seem the same to me - shaming, condemning, belittling, and hissing at people for being who they are.

So - now you know more about how I got to where I am. Though I doubt our 22-year-old correspondent here is still reading.

It has never been an issue with me. People think what people think, I'm not their conscience. I can only live how I believe.
I'm really surprised he didn't throw that verse on me to tell me to shut up because I am a woman. I'm waiting for it...

LOL.

a reply to: Seede

John wrote his letter of John 3:16 after the death of Jesus and makes no mention of works being required in salvation. If works of the flesh were required for salvation then give the list of acceptable works in which you must be saved.

Well instead of just reading a single verse in the chapter, you should keep reading to find the entire message...

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


Faith alone produces people that are good for nothing... those who think they can just sit back and ride out this life without caring for others... this doctrine produces a selfish breed of Christian who think only of themselves and their own salvation... They've lost their salt, as Jesus explains...

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


You want a list eh...

Perhaps this was just a suggestion? I mean you don't need to do these things do you?

Oh wait... He actually clears that up in this passage... pardon the length but one should get the entire message as I've said previously....

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.


Hows that for a list?

I don't think I need to point out the works Jesus required... YOU should already know them

He is your saviour is he not?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Actually, that's not quite accurate.
I was Baptized, Confirmed, Married, etc. in a Protestant Church - the Episcopal church - a branch of the Church of England of Henry VIII fame. It's very close to Roman Catholicism.

Don't forget the disclaimers that I included. And the dates. And the fact that I wasn't following any particular Confession of Faith.

Having said that, my Protestant position was my own fusion of Formula of Concord (Lutheran) and Belgic Confession (Reformed). I did not look at 39 Articles, I'm sorry that I left you out

I was only a kid for crying out loud! 17-26.

Also, the Catholics DO BELIEVE that both are required.

RCC has specifically had to declare Quietism to be heresy. Why would that be? Perhaps because they had already declared Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism to be heresy. And like I said, my info could be outdated.

Once the Church calls some things heresy, they set themselves on a course of painting themselves into a corner. You just have to keep on declaring more and more things heresy. And then, the Protestants just went on holding to Augustinian doctrine of original sin. It's really a mess. My youngster self was just trying to simplify. Can you forgive me?

a reply to: Akragon

I would assume that on your list, where you quote Jesus, that one of things He said was baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, that is what you do, I assume.

Jesus also said some other very hard things. Let the dead bury their dead, take up your cross follow me.

Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Once you are healed, don't go back to what made you not whole.

¶Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. I receive not honor from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another, and seek not the honor that cometh from God only? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Moses accuses. What does that mean? If you don't believe Moses, then how are you going to believe Jesus?

The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of heaven is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Repent: for the kingdom of God is at hand.

Brother Akra, what is it in Moses that we have to read and what is it that we have to repent of? Those are hard things when we think about it.

But here is one of my favorites

8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying. 9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

I think that Mary of Bethany is good enough to speak of in memorial, as Jesus said. I don't hear many Christians talking about her. So what are your views on Mary of Bethany?

ETA: There is a good site The Complete Sayings of Jesus if you need a quick reference when you don't remember a verse very well.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I would assume that on your list, where you quote Jesus, that one of things He said was baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, that is what you do, I assume.

Actually I don't believe he ever said that... That verse was changed by an early Trinitarian scribe... the evidence of which is rather abundant... and since, IF I considered myself Christian (which I don't) I would not be a Trinitarian... Thus I do not do what you assume

Moses accuses. What does that mean? If you don't believe Moses, then how are you going to believe Jesus?

It means IF one is to follow the words of Moses, said person is to follow his words to the letter... Of course he was speaking to the Jews who are supposed to follow their prophet's words... Remember this was written long after Jesus was executed... Hardly required since Jesus changed the laws of moses in just a few words.

Clearly Jesus was not talking about every word he supposedly wrote... look through the rules of Mitzvah, there are quite a few Jesus did not agree with...

Brother Akra, what is it in Moses that we have to read and what is it that we have to repent of? Those are hard things when we think about it.

Again, IF one is to follow the laws Moses gave to the letter, there would be quite a few things one would need to repent for... the man was FAR from perfect... and so were his laws

I think that Mary of Bethany is good enough to speak of in memorial, as Jesus said. I don't hear many Christians talking about her. So what are your views on Mary of Bethany?

She was a follower of Jesus.... Not much is known about her really...

I am actually of the opinion that the early church was supposed to be governed by women... but the men wouldn't have it, especially Paul who gave all these silly rules that women should be quiet and subservient to men...

I believe women have their place, but are equal to men

a reply to: pthena

Having said that, my Protestant position was my own fusion of Formula of Concord (Lutheran) and Belgic Confession (Reformed). I did not look at 39 Articles, I'm sorry that I left you out

I was only a kid for crying out loud! 17-26.

Aw, NO! there's no need to be "sorry." I was a kid, too!

It's just very interesting to me (and relevant to the thread) that each self-proclaimed "Christian" denomination has their own set of rules, rituals, beliefs.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Then she said "I go to the Church of Christ. You're not a Christian."

Check this story out:

When I was a 30 something elder teaching the adult Sunday School, a 50 something elder said, "I don't believe in the resurrection of Jesus."

So I said, "Then you're not a Christian".

Then I announced that I was changing the curriculum to a topic called "The Essence of Christianity" which I started to write up.

After a couple of months, one of the other elders started agitating for me to be turned into a preacher, we were between preachers at the time.

I got called in on the carpet by all the elders and deacons to answer for my bid. It was kind of strange because I didn't know anything about it.

Once I resigned as elder, the other guy started saying people should follow me. Think the scene in Life of Brian, "only the Messiah would say he isn't the Messiah".

That's when I fled. No one could follow me if they couldn't find me. Besides that I was doubting already whether I was a Christian myself.

ETA

See how far I am behind in the thread. I just can't run like I used to.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Then I announced that I was changing the curriculum to a topic called "The Essence of Christianity" which I started to write up.

Did you finish writing it? I would be interested in reading it.

a reply to: pthena

That's when I fled. No one could follow me if they couldn't find me. Besides that I was doubting already whether I was a Christian myself.

ETA

See how far I am behind in the thread. I just can't run like I used to.

It's okay - I'm just really glad you're here. And it isn't even a thread that I started!!


(I don't believe "the resurrection" story, either.)

a reply to: WarminIndy

I wrote up a big thing just now, and my internet connection broke in the very instant I pushed the reply button. Strange.

I have two break for a few hours. Go to Granddaughters school concert.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Do you suppose the OP has now drifted threads?


We have to stay on topic...maybe the malware is in defective operating systems that were already defective?

Maybe the end user hasn't read the user manual, you know some people throw that away and try to build the entertainment system themselves.

Maybe sometimes it is in a different language they can't read? Maybe? Perhaps?

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: WarminIndy

I wrote up a big thing just now, and my internet connection broke in the very instant I pushed the reply button. Strange.

I have two break for a few hours. Go to Granddaughters school concert.

Aww, have fun.

Cheer for her from us. (me and BuzzyWigs)

a reply to: WarminIndy

OMG I love that song! Thanks!!!

I love you, WarminIndy.

a reply to: pthena

Hey, stand up and wave at her from the stands!!!!

I used to love to do that!!!

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: WarminIndy

OMG I love that song! Thanks!!!

I just thought the OP might have drifted away.

Meryl Streep sings it in her new movie...I was like whaaaa??? Meryl Streep???

OK, the filmmaker in me loves that idea, but the realist in me is like...whaaaa????

Whoduathunk putting Meryl Streep in that role.

Anyway, back on topic, has it been proven that religion is malware? Maybe it is for some people who don't know really and just go along with what their social or peer group approves of.

I don't think religion has caused it in me, but I try to live what I believe and know. And I can say that the more I think I know, the more I realize the less I actually do know.

I love you too.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Hey, here ----- this is the song that meant the world to me when I was 25 and having panic attacks.....I felt my angels touch me and reassure me that everything was all right......