Freddie Gray's Death Ruled a Homicide; 6 Officers Charged!

bullcat.
I'll ask you nicely..PLEASE .stay on topic and stop trying to derail this thread.
I really don't want to report you to the mods.

a reply to: bullcat

en.wikipedia.org... hey pot i think kettle is calling for ya buddy.....

Racism in Russia appears mainly in the form of negative attitudes and actions by Russians towards people who are not considered ethnically Russian. Traditionally, Russian racism included antisemitism, as well as hostility towards various ethnicities of Caucasus and Central Asia.[1] The director of the Moscow Bureau for Human Rights, Alexander Brod, stated that surveys show xenophobia and other racist expressions are prevalent in 50 percent of Russians.[2] In 2006, Amnesty International reported that racism in Russia was "out of control" and estimated the number of Russian neo-Nazis at around 85,000 in 2008.[3][4] But despite all this Russia is the second largest immigration receiver after the United States. Russia has also the second highest immigration rate in Eastern Europe after the Czech Republic[5] while other European countries like Germany and Poland stay very homogeneous with lower openness for immigrants

www.nationalreview.com...

content.time.com...

www.worldpolicy.org...


both usa and russia have their issues so lets try to get back to the topic at hand the baltimore case and how these charges are going to effect the shenanigans in baltimore

a reply to: bullcat

I am clearly stating the fact that America has a deep rooted Race Issue

wrong, some people in America have deep rooted race issues, not America, and not even a majority of americans.....

It is continually fuelled by your SOCIETY and INSTITUTIONS.


PROVE ME WRONG

How about instead you prove your statement that institutions and the society here push racism?

No what I see is a small minority of people that are racist.....and another small minority that capitilize on it for their own gains...just as there are in EVERY country

That does not constitute America as a racist country...

This is an American problem, caused by Americans, by Americans for Americans.

1. Russia has banned gay people from driving.

2. in the Middle east you can be killed for being homosexual

3. Middle east as well as the EU have plenty of issues with groups of people killing others because their belief systems arent the same , and en masse,

4. Nazi parties and Neo nazi groups are very large in plenty of countries in Europe


So exactly how is any of it exclusive to America?

Do you even know history or are you just running off at the mouth again as usual

again, we get it, you hate America, but you are making yourself look even more ignorant and hateful then anyone ive seen on this Forum....

No seriously , were an American owned website with a Majority of people here being American and I see more bigotry coming from YOU then anyone here....

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Event data recorders have been entered into evidence since the late 90s. I first heard about them in a case around 2001 where it was deciding factor in a fatal accident. I read recently that they are in 96% of all new vehicles. There is also currently a bill to make them mandatory. Their initial use started when airbags became an option.

Any chance the police can deactivate recording devices because, well, they are the police. The data would certainly be interesting to view.

a reply to: bullcat

We have a problem with polices, race and institutions, yes, you are right, but this goes for every nation in the world because is about us human beings.

The nation we have today is the nation we have created, have allowed to be created and allow to keep been created, we have given power to others that shows to be powerful self appointed leaders and political figures and parties that swear to be working for our wellbeing to keep screwing us, the truth is that what they work for is for the advancement of their own agendas and the agendas of those that pays them the most.

If you think that We the people run this nation you are mistaken, we the people have not run this nation in many, many years.

What are we going to do about it, what are you going to do about, that is the question that we need to be asking and now that the issue of social injustice and corruption is been brought to the table because what happen in many states in a span of many years, this the occasion that we need to put our foot on the floor and tell the so call leaders to take a ride we are tired of their BS and the BS of those they are catering the most

a reply to: tigertatzen

Here is how I see it.. it will be nearly impossible to prove murder in a case against cops.. it is much easier to prove involuntary manslaughter, against a police officer. Most officers don't maliciously walk around attempting to murder anyone.. death through negligence (involuntary manslaughter) is an almost sure conviction based on what I have been able to figure out in this case.

If you want the charges to stick, you are going to go with most likely scenario and most easily convicted.. try for malicious intent or murder, and it will be much more difficult..

the higher or more serious the charge is, therefore, the easier it is to fight it and win, if they are charging with only the highest of charges, then they are wanting the cops to walk, and it is nothing more than a show.. charges like involuntary manslaughter, which has up to a 15 year sentence attached, is something harder to fight, and more easily convicted in this case.. if they are charged involuntary, then its not just a show to pacify the people, it would mean they do intend to convict the officers..

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I looked up 2nd° murder under Maryland criminal code earlier. I had the same opinion as you until I reviewed the actual code. To be convicted of second-degree murder in Maryland The charge carries no requirement that it has to be willful or intentional.

Like I said earlier even though I didn't initially believe they could apply it. I now see that that charge does he have some legs in this case.

a reply to: bullcat

en.wikipedia.org... why does your country do billion dollar arms deals with them then? or does this not count because it does not support your world views?

The Stalin era Seeking to strike the opposition, a great number of which were Jews, Stalin used the anti-Semitism factor. Thousands of Jews were arrested and driven to the Gulag. However, a turning point in Stalin's policy was his support for the edification of Israel. It is almost certain that, were it not for the support of the Soviet Union to the newly proclaimed state of Israel concretized by the sending of extensive military aid (via Czechoslovakia), and giving it diplomatic support as well, Israel would not have seen the day. But why did Russia support Israel and recognize the state after the United States? Because of strategic and ideological considerations.

so if russia hates them so much why did they recognize them as a state? why did they send them extensive military and finaical aid to fight in their many wars against the arabs from the early days?


and if russia does not like the saudis they are sure showing it in a funny way

www.moscowtopnews.com... so multi billion dollar arms deals going both ways (saudis sell to them and buy from them) the saudis get weapons from EVERY one russia china usa nato and even some Israeli hardwear they are perhaps one of the most diversely armed nations on the planet containing weapons from former warsaw pact nations,nato ,south Korean weapons as well as Chinese and various other middle eastern nations


www.theguardian.com... pretty much every one has been sending weapons to the region for decades not like many have clean hands on the matter

www.moscowtopnews.com... so now that we got all this out of the way what are your thoughts on the outcome of the impending trial for the 6 cops charged in the murder/wrongfull death of freddie gray

originally posted by: retiredTxn

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Anyone else feel that this guy died a horrifically needless death or just me?

I think most important of all is the fact there was no justification for his arrest. This, and many other arrests, are not justified. Maybe this will place some pressure on LEO's across the country to re-think their rush to arrest someone because they "can".

Never should have happened.

Such a good point.

Sorry I missed this post earlier.


Everything about this is such a damn shame.

a reply to: Greathouse

No, you are incorrect.. look at this:

Therefore, a second degree murder must be intentional.

pricebenowitz.com...

I don't think in a million years they will be able to prove that those cops set out to kill Grey intentionally.. If they want a conviction, as I stated before, they will go the manslaughter route.. they will never be able to prosecute murder with intent..

If they try for murder, the court case is nothing but show.

Just saw a quick snippet on BBC News a young black man saying "it's not a black vs white thing, it's like a police vs everybody thing"...


Wise young man.

Racism in America...Hmmm...we have a mixed race president for one. Condi Rice held what is arguably the most powerful position next to POTUS as a black female. The first black FEMALE doctor in the US graduated in 1864. Get over the past and build a future folks or we will not have one...any of us...

So no, this is not about racism. A person whos family is pushes them to not go down this road can make it. Take that off the table and look at this case. Try to but the media will not allow it. If this was a white guy who got roughed up would the Black Panthers make a stand? Nope...

More Caucasians were shot and killed by police than all other races combined so enough. This is not about race. It is about dividing our country. Creating fear. It is unbalancing our country.

If this case read...Bradley Smith, a 24 year old white male bolted from police and was chased down. During transport, something occurred and based on sustained injuries he dies 10 days later.

WHAT difference does it make if he is black or white?

This guy was a known criminal. That makes a case for why the cops wanted to talk to him. It does not give them the right to kill him but to shake him down, sure. Like I said, where is the guy who was there with him.

All life on this planet matters. If I say 'n-word' I am a racist but a person of color can say cracker on the Senate floor and nothing happens. Black artists and actors and activists can call for the death of whitey and cops and it is ok. NO, it is not.

If these jerk offs took the time to promote well being instead of stopping traffic and quoting 30 year old NWA tunes maybe their neighborhoods could be turned around...

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Greathouse

No, you are incorrect.. look at this:

Therefore, a second degree murder must be intentional.

pricebenowitz.com...

I don't think in a million years they will be able to prove that those cops set out to kill Grey intentionally.. If they want a conviction, as I stated before, they will go the manslaughter route.. they will never be able to prosecute murder with intent..

If they try for murder, the court case is nothing but show.

You left out the MOST important part!

Second Degree Murder
Second degree murder, covered under Maryland Criminal Code § 2-204, makes it illegal to commit any murder, even if it was not premeditated, willful, or deliberate. The distinction between second degree murder and manslaughter is in the intent. Therefore, a second degree murder must be intentional.

So if someone intended to deliberately cause harm to an individual, that happened to result in death, it's 2nd degree murder, even if they never intended to kill the guy.

The same is true of, say, a robbery, where someone else shoots at the suspect but misses and kills an innocent bystander, the robber/suspect is guilty of that murder. Same with some guy driving a "get away vehicle" or standing a s a lookout, if someone was killed during the commission of crime, they ALL get charged with murder.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Greathouse

No, you are incorrect.. look at this:

Therefore, a second degree murder must be intentional.

pricebenowitz.com...

I don't think in a million years they will be able to prove that those cops set out to kill Grey intentionally.. If they want a conviction, as I stated before, they will go the manslaughter route.. they will never be able to prosecute murder with intent..

If they try for murder, the court case is nothing but show.

I'm glad I read your link because it was rather rather hard to find it the last time. ( it was in a long PDF)

But you are mistaken because this quote is from your link.

Second degree murder, covered under Maryland Criminal Code § 2-204, makes it illegal to commit any murder, even if it was not premeditated, willful or intentional

Intent means a intentional effort to harm someone that resulted in their death. You can intend to harm someone but not willfully or intentionally intend to murder them. I'm not saying definitely they will be convicted of second-degree murder. I am only stating that the law applies and it's up to the prosecutor to convince a jury.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: bullcat



No what I see is a small minority of people that are racist.....and another small minority that capitilize on it for their own gains...just as there are in EVERY country

That does not constitute America as a racist country...

Bottom line...yes America has a "race issue" but it is only apparent because (A) The world at large places huge expectations and higher standards when it comes to equality than they do on virtually any other nation, and (B) We have a society, laws and government that confronts our race issues, unlike many other places on the globe.

That said...we should hold ourselves to a higher standard. We did come up with the whole "All be are created equal, endowed by their creator.." thing and built it into our government.

So..We need to do a better job of confronting race issues...NO DOUBT...but our race issues are only visible because we choose to not be tolerant of it....unlike most nations of the world.

a reply to: windword

Second Degree Murder
Second degree murder, covered under Maryland Criminal Code § 2-204, makes it illegal to commit any murder, even if it was not premeditated, willful, or deliberate. The distinction between second degree murder and manslaughter is in the intent. Therefore, a second degree murder must be intentional.



That makes no sense...

How can second degree murder be sometimes not deliberate but it "must be intentional"?



I know it's not my reading comprehension, that's just poor writing comprehension and elaboration.


Unless I missed something

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I thought I explained it here:

So if someone intended to deliberately cause harm to an individual, that happened to result in death, it's 2nd degree murder, even if they never intended to kill the guy.

The same is true of, say, a robbery, where someone else shoots at the suspect but misses and kills an innocent bystander, the robber/suspect is guilty of that murder. Same with some guy driving a "get away vehicle" or standing a s a lookout, if someone was killed during the commission of crime, they ALL get charged with murder.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: OpinionatedB


I completely agree with you. It's very surprising that they were willing to charge depraved heart, but I think that in and of itself may cause issues when people realize what that actually means. They see the word "murder" and automatically assume that it means the same as a premeditation versus another charge that is basically reckless behavior with disregard to the value of human life. I'm glad they're doing it. Just wary of the aftermath if they fail to convict or they do convict and it is basically not much more than involuntary manslaughter, as far as sentencing. Because the expectations have been raised that may not end up being reality. Not everyone is going to see that the lesser charges tend to stick better than the greater charges and understand the logic behind that. So, fingers crossed.

a reply to: windword

Motion sustained, ( raps gavel)