Jesus as an archetype for consciousness

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Paul's teachings were reflected in all of the other Apostolic epistles because they were founded on Christ's teachings. Jesus didnt come to complete the cannon of scripture, He came to attone for our sins. He charged His disciples with spreading His word.

Buddhism offers a pathway to "enlightenment" in the afterlife via works, its a religion.

And even Prince Guatama called on the goddess of death to have mercy on him. At the moment of death, he still cried out to the goddess to have mercy. Isn't that a kick?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Love it! the way I'm interpreting what you're saying is that Jesus told us he was the light of the world (consciousness) and by giving us the understanding that we all have consciousness he's in fact showing us that no one is greater or lesser than anyone because intrinsically we are all the same.

I also support the statement that you made about people twisting his words to their own ends. If you carefully examine what jesus talks about throughout the bible it seems to be more of a book on philosophy than religion. An example could be that we gained the knowledge of good and evil, literally meaning that we had the capacity to distinguish wrong from right but not just morally but in the sence that we could relize the truth rather than continuing to live in ignorance . And when jesus tells us that he is the way to salvation, it's not spiritual salvation he's talking about but instead salvation from ignorance.

Hehe hope that makes sence it's really a hard thing to actually say even when you understan, i believe that's also one of the reasons it's so easy to twist.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: bb23108

Yet you are separating yourself from Jesus by saying you are less than him. How is me saying I am equal to him any different than you saying you are less than him? Both imply separation according to your reasoning. If there is only God and consciousness then how can any one be greater or lesser than another? All is one, there is no separation, yet you say Jesus can not be equaled... because that implies separation, even though being less than him is separation in itself as well.

We are one with Jesus, he is in us and we in him. We are no lesser or greater than he is.

I am simply praising what Jesus did and his greatness as a spiritual master. This does not lessen who I am. Maybe that is how you look at yourself, in comparison to others and feel that yep, I am that great too! Dunno, that is up to you to understand. But much of your talk here is just mentalized notions of your mental insight into non-dualism.

How does all this actually make you as great as Jesus or other adept Spiritual Masters? Do you have teachings and disciples who truly testify to your wisdom and genuineness? Do you at least have a youtube video I can view, like so many other new-age philosophers?

By the way, if you are as great as Jesus, why do you bother quoting him so much?

a reply to: bb23108

I'm sure Christiano Ronaldo is better at soccer than Jesus could ever be but does that make Ronaldo "better" than Jesus? Of course not, everyone has their own specialty in certain fields, Jesus' just so happened to be spirituality. Does that make him better than us? No it doesn't. Was Jesus more wise than I am? Most likely, but does that make him better than me? Absolutely not.

You're reading to much into what I'm saying. I acknowledge Jesus' teachings as being great, but even he had to learn them from someone else. His Father gave him wisdom, he used it to discern teachings of various religious texts to form his philosophy. I'm sure Buddha had an impact on what Jesus said.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
... everyone has their own specialty in certain fields, Jesus' just so happened to be spirituality. Does that make him better than us? No it doesn't.

LOL!

You are now equating Jesus' function and real spirituality relative to what transcends the world, simply as a field of expertise that does not stand apart from other conditional skills?

Okay, I will let this one go.

a reply to: bb23108

Seems as though you believe Jesus is the end all be all on spiritual knowledge. He's not. Even Jesus learned what he knew from other people. He said he learned what he knew from the Father. Was Jesus better than Rumi? What about Buddha? Alan Watts? Carl Jung? Was he better than they? If you think so you have a narrow view, everyone has their worth, some even more so than Jesus in certain respects. To deny that is to raise Jesus onto a pedestal, a mistake Christians have been making for a while now.

a reply to: bb23108

Let me put it this way, Jesus was the best spiritual teacher when it comes to love and compassion, in my opinion he doesn't have a competitor in that area except for maybe Rumi, but there are others besides him that delve a bit deeper into other spiritual aspects that he doesn't really touch on in the gospels.

I'm not downgrading Jesus in any way, unless of course you believe he's the best ever on anything spiritual and his level of understanding is unreachable. If that's the case then I don't see much difference between your views and Christians fundamentally.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
You seem like a well-intentioned, good-hearted person, wanting to share your insights with others. I generally read your posts, and often find them interesting. Partly because of all of this, I have also been critical of some of your statements.

In today's world of high speed access to so much information, we can communicate about and experience all kinds of things. There even seems to be a democratization of non-duality - in which many people can enjoy an insight into the unity that fundamentally pervades the universe - and this can be very very good.

This understanding traditionally was reserved for people who deeply desired the truth, needed it above all else. So they would go find a teacher or master, and surrender their lives to this truth. The more adept and skillful the master, the more he took his disciple into account.

It was often the case that after a certain amount of understanding, the disciple would have a glimpse into the truth of non-duality, and would feel like he finally "got it"! He might even confront his master, and say, thank you - and adios!

One of the most popular misconceptions to justify this is this quote:

“Embrace nothing:
If you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha.
If you meet your father, kill your father.
Only live your life as it is,
Not bound to anything.”

― Gautama Siddharta

Of course, he is not talking about any physical killing, but to throw everything away that one might otherwise cling to. So the disciple decides to leave his teacher - and generally pre-maturely.

People do not want to submit to reality, they just want to feel better about themselves.

Holding on to this "got it" attitude and one's mental insights into non-dualism, is known as the stench of enlightenment, as I am sure you know. This stench is rampant with the new-age idealism and the "got it" attitudes that make for all kinds of statements about being enlightened, completely one, equal to the great adept realizers, etc., etc. Youtube is full of these types of new age "teachers". Anyway, read up on that, if you like - it might help.

Best to you.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: bb23108

Let me put it this way, Jesus was the best spiritual teacher when it comes to love and compassion, in my opinion he doesn't have a competitor in that area except for maybe Rumi, but there are others besides him that delve a bit deeper into other spiritual aspects that he doesn't really touch on in the gospels.

I'm not downgrading Jesus in any way, unless of course you believe he's the best ever on anything spiritual and his level of understanding is unreachable. If that's the case then I don't see much difference between your views and Christians fundamentally.

Oh, He IS the best ever.

You know, when I pray, I don't say "Oh 3NL1GHTN3D1, show me the way to my own blue heaven, share with me the secrets of the universe, heal me, tell me how to heal myself". Nope, so if I can't place any reliance on your knowledge or your enlightenment, then how could I trust that you could know more than Jesus?

So far all you tell us is that you are enlightened, that you are your own master and that you are a great spiritual thinker who can do all of the amazing, incredible things, like healing the sick or entering into the place where a broken hearted person is and comforting them.

You do all of that, right? I mean, if you are an anointed Christ within yourself then why are you still seeking knowledge and truth? You should know it all by now. And you certainly would be the one people call on when they need help.

Are people knocking down your door now to get revelation or help? Should we pray in your name, oh mighty wise one?

a reply to: bb23108

I am so lost by them, I really don't know what it is they think they know.

Do they know or just think they know? I think they only think they know. Because if they did know, they would not have to keep seeking to be validated.

a reply to: bb23108

I have much more to learn, but Jesus can only take you so far. The words he spoke are awesome and I live by them every day so I have not said "adios" to him nor do I think I have surpassed him in understanding, I only know that to stick with him alone is to limit myself, so I extend outward to other teachings and even to within myself. I will always look "back" (though his teachings never left me) to him with great respect and admiration, he's the one who helped me start my journey, but to stay with him alone is not to move forward but to be stagnant. A seeker always seeks, I am still on my way to finding what I am looking for, but I think I have a compass that works really well and is leading me in the right direction.

Matthew 12
50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

Whoever does the will of the Father is a brother to Jesus.

Matthew 23
8 "Don't let anyone call you 'Rabbi,' for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters.

Those who are brothers are equal according to Jesus. So those who do the will of the Father (love others and God) are brothers, a.k.a. equals with Jesus in a general sense. That's all I was saying with that.

a reply to: WarminIndy
Generally it is some mental insight into the prior unity that pervades all, the unity that is the "medium" or light-energy in which all forms are a modification of.

Once people have this insight that they are fundamentally prior to all forms, they tend to savor this insight into non-duality, talk about it, maybe feel its sense of connectedness to all things. All that is fine, but it certainly is not enlightenment.

They also typically still feel abstracted in the head from all forms and others, rather than non-separate, as this unity actually is.

Others reinforce this insight with various substances that may give them a deeper glimpse, but again, that doesn't last.

Anyway, what seems to be the case is that a lot of these types run off to the spiritual circuses that can be viewed on YouTube, all claiming to have got it - and you can get it too, generally for a price.

It is sad in some real way because people think they can bypass the hard-school of discipline that the body-mind must endure to conduct the real energy of God's spirit and love. That was the import of Jesus' great commandments - to turn the whole body-mind, heart, and being to God fully and completely, and love one's neighbor as oneself.

If people did this discipline, they would be on fire for God - not this laid back, "I got it" attitude, ready to talk about their understanding to anyone who will listen, and especially if they will pay.

There are many sites on non-duality if you want more info on what many of these people are getting at.

a reply to: WarminIndy

When did I ever say to do any of that? LOL, stop projecting your preconceived notions onto me.

Jesus said to pray to the Father not himself. I never said pray to me, you're putting words in my mouth. All to demonize me in your own mind.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Okay, that sounds a lot less "stinky" to me now.

So if you are still seeking, then you do not consider yourself enlightened?

a reply to: bb23108

I'm still on the path to it, but I have a general idea of what the truth is. I may need to iron out some wrinkles here and there but in general I believe we are all eternal souls sharing from the one Spirit of life. We are all the same on the inside, it is the outside that creates the illusion of separation.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Right, but true enlightenment is when the whole event is One event, no inside or outside, no separation, no you, no I, only consciousness love-bliss in and as and beyond all forms.

That is a great matter and not one we can actually seek and become - it is only in fully turning to the Divine Reality that we can undergo what this awakening requires, because all of our seeking only reinforces the sense of separation.

The Grace of God is absolutely required, and I sense you know this, but I often get the sense that people think they can do this on their own. Not a chance!

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

When did I ever say to do any of that? LOL, stop projecting your preconceived notions onto me.

Jesus said to pray to the Father not himself. I never said pray to me, you're putting words in my mouth. All to demonize me in your own mind.

You are the one who claims Christhood, so show me some Christ in your hood.
That should be simple enough.

originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: WarminIndy
Generally it is some mental insight into the prior unity that pervades all, the unity that is the "medium" or light-energy in which all forms are a modification of.

Once people have this insight that they are fundamentally prior to all forms, they tend to savor this insight into non-duality, talk about it, maybe feel its sense of connectedness to all things. All that is fine, but it certainly is not enlightenment.

They also typically still feel abstracted in the head from all forms and others, rather than non-separate, as this unity actually is.

Others reinforce this insight with various substances that may give them a deeper glimpse, but again, that doesn't last.

Anyway, what seems to be the case is that a lot of these types run off to the spiritual circuses that can be viewed on YouTube, all claiming to have got it - and you can get it too, generally for a price.

It is sad in some real way because people think they can bypass the hard-school of discipline that the body-mind must endure to conduct the real energy of God's spirit and love. That was the import of Jesus' great commandments - to turn the whole body-mind, heart, and being to God fully and completely, and love one's neighbor as oneself.

If people did this discipline, they would be on fire for God - not this laid back, "I got it" attitude, ready to talk about their understanding to anyone who will listen, and especially if they will pay.

There are many sites on non-duality if you want more info on what many of these people are getting at.

You know, there is a wonderful organization called the SCA (Society of Creative Anachronism) and the members all take a persona name and dress up like the Middle Ages. They even talk like people did back then. They really try to live their lives by their personas. Sometimes they even get a little mixed up between the mundane and fantasy.

And there are people who play World of Warcraft, Second Life or any other role playing game and believe themselves eventually as killing novices or doing things they would not normally do. But at the end of the day, normal people are capable of extricating themselves from that virtual world.

So there appears to be a virtual spiritual world for some people. They take on personas (I am Christ, I am God, I am ONE...) and they really feel connected because the mundane is just that, mundane.

See, the mundane is reality. We don't have to play dress up and speak with new lingo and all of that stuff. The OP uses a persona, he is Enlightened One. So he must take on the persona fully, engage in language that has no bearing on reality. See, my username is not my avatar. It really is just from a television show that I liked. But at the end of the day, I am not my username, I am me. And I am telling you what I know from the mundane.

I do trust that Enlightened One is really caught in a virtual spiritual world, of where he dresses himself up in the emperors new clothes and hopes we will all see the brilliant shining light of solar inflicted illumination. The lightbulb goes off in his head, he sees things in a new way, he feels himself part of the light bulb, and yet the light bulb won't work with a broken wire, it just rattles and rattles in the fragile, glossy glass. But no, that's not good enough, he must be a 2,000 watt spot light to that little match.

Brilliance only lasts as long as there is night, the day reveals no need for anything else. I heard a line in a movie once..."It's like shining a darkness flash light into a room of light". You can't make the room dark if it is already lit. But the light isn't emanating from inwardly, it is out side.

Self-illumination. How does one know they are self-illuminated if they are not connected to the power source?

a reply to: WarminIndy
I like what you say about taking on a persona and playing that role - and in some very real sense we all do this. Think about our everyday world - nothing we experience is apart from just a virtual re-imaging of that apparent reality. This is part of what the op is about.

All we do is perceive objects and others in life - we don't actually directly experience objects and others. We feel like we do, but even that feeling is another perception or sensation. But we persist in playing our role regardless because we believe it to be reality.

In some sense our online "virtual" reality is no less real than what we do in the world - at least, in the sense that it is still all just perceptions and re-imaging everything according to our transmitter-receiver functions of the body-mind.

Regardless, the real purpose of life is to find out what Reality actually is - submit to it altogether, and once it is recognized, felt, and understood beyond all this re-imaging by the body-mind, that Reality begins to reveal itself more and more, and we can then live on this true basis, in accordance with Reality.

a reply to: WarminIndy

If you knew me personally and saw how I treated everyone (with respect and love) you would know this. Those who follow Jesus' commands are his brothers, sisters, and mother, Jesus' commands were love and forgiveness. But you expect a sign or miracle to be performed which is superstitious religion dictating what your expectations should be.

Sorry, but I cannot walk on water or turn water into wine. If those are your expectations then they are unrealistic and based in myth.