My take on the true story of Jesus... if he existed.

Not sure if this belongs here or in "Conspiracies in Religion" but,

My personal beliefs about Jesus, if such a man existed at all:

I think that nearly every point he tried to make was taken too literally and twisted by others to do exactly what Jesus preached against.

That time period was one where the priesthood held nearly total power over the people. The priests lived a lavish lifestyle supported by a "temple tax" which every Jew had to pay. They were corrupt assholes who lorded over a bunch of peasants.

A lot of what has been attributed to Jesus is downright hogwash but I think his point was this: we are all children of god, you don't have to attend church to know god, god is in all of us, the church isn't necessary at all, be a good person, don't condemn others because they're different, love one another and it'll all work out, etc. I think that Jesus was a mystic and to him, "god" was whatever divine force it is that has been described and felt by so many people who look for their own answers whether it be a collective subconscious or a total unity of beings. Jesus, if such a man did exist, was probably anti-religion because of how corrupt and out-of-control the priesthood was at the time (and now). His lesson to people was simply "you don't need a priest to communicate with the higher power." I'm quite certain that he thought the Old Testament depiction of god was ludicrous since his message was so contradictory to the beliefs of the time period. I'm also quite certain that Jesus was the type who sought spiritual answers through meditation and questioning his existence... not from religious text.

The priesthood obviously had to get rid of this guy since he was shaking up their entire power structure. He was basically leading a revolution of spiritual enlightenment. There were supposedly multiple assassination attempts against Jesus and I have a feeling he either escaped and lived in obscurity which is why the story is cut short or he may have actually been killed after the priests convinced the Romans to do their dirty work for them.

Because of several factors including the inability of some to understand metaphors and the inability of some to pass up the chance for a power-grab, Jesus' message was altered and misconstrued to mean literally "I am the physical son of god." The virgin birth, miracles, and resurrection were bits from older deistic tales added to lend some credibility to the story and exactly what Jesus spoke against, a religion, was formed around him. Jesus must be rolling in his grave to see how his message was so horribly misunderstood... that is, if he actually existed.

I know this thread won't sit well with folks who take the Bible to be 100% literal but, to the rest... thoughts?

I define myself as atheist with a touch of mysticism because of my personal experiences during meditation. I don't believe in a god but I believe in something more than the physical world we see around us.

Interesting .. also makes alot more sense than the myriad other fairytales on the subject ..

originally posted by: Expat888
Interesting .. also makes alot more sense than the myriad other fairytales on the subject ..

The biggest problem is that we can't possibly know for sure what Jesus (if he existed) actually said since it's all third, fourth, or fifth hand information.

a reply to: Answer

Made a thread not long ago "Christianity : Ask and you shall be given" you can peek into it if it interests you, i am not allowed to link it here.
I am a Lutheran by baptizing as a baby. So my views of the church are that Jesus never meant church to be and building and institution. The church as a word comes from a Greek word which means "calling out". And he speaks about building his church and Peter as a rock . Why Peter ? Because he is strong in his faith as an example to others .

a reply to: Answer

We'll all find out for ourselves sooner or later. Why is destroying Christianity so important to you folks? For a bunch non-believers, ya'll sure spend a lot of time obsessing over it.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: Answer

We'll all find out for ourselves sooner or later. Why is destroying Christianity so important to you folks? For a bunch non-believers, ya'll sure spend a lot of time obsessing over it.

What part of this would destroy Christianity?

Attempting to add a realistic explanation to the story so it's a little easier for a rational person to swallow is "destroying" your religion?

Take out the global floods, talking shrubbery, water-walking, pretty much the entire Old Testament and the rest of the nonsense and you're left with a message from Jesus that is mostly good advice and a good moral guide for humanity. It's the rest that is so hard for people to accept.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: Answer

We'll all find out for ourselves sooner or later. Why is destroying Christianity so important to you folks? For a bunch non-believers, ya'll sure spend a lot of time obsessing over it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Evangelical Atheist: An evangelical atheist is one who not only believes there is no god or other supreme being, but is obsessed with convincing everyone around them to become an atheist too, usually through hard-line intolerance (the kind they accuse other religions of).

When cornered they usually try to put down their opponent's religion and bash them for 'blind faith', not realizing that their belief that there is no god is no more or less valid or provable than the other guy's belief that there is one.

Not to be confused with normal atheists/agnostics, who for the most part just don't talk about religion and accept the beliefs of those around them as their prerogative.

Evangelical atheists are particularly common on the Internet, as organized religion is generally accepted as part of 'the system' of global human society, and lately it's become cool on the Internet to hate 'the system'. Evangelical atheist usually seeks to "convert" borderline theists, often by engaging in debate with fundamentalists.

The New Atheists see religion as a disease to be exterminated. Their dream, in short, is not a government neutral to religion, but a government actively hostile to religion. The evangelical atheists assume that religion must inevitably breed mindless fanaticism. Countering that image means not just answering the atheists’ arguments against God, but also correcting their false impressions of religion.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: Answer

We'll all find out for ourselves sooner or later. Why is destroying Christianity so important to you folks? For a bunch non-believers, ya'll sure spend a lot of time obsessing over it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Evangelical Atheist: An evangelical atheist is one who not only believes there is no god or other supreme being, but is obsessed with convincing everyone around them to become an atheist too, usually through hard-line intolerance (the kind they accuse other religions of).

It was a topic for discussion... certainly not an attempt to convert anyone or change their beliefs.

While there may be some atheists out there who behave like you've pointed out, Christians have to stop seeing every question as "an attack on religion."

a reply to: Answer

Take out the global floods, talking shrubbery, water-walking, the Old Testament, and the rest of the nonsense and you're left with a message from Jesus that is mostly good advice and a good moral guide for humanity. It's the rest that is so hard for people to accept.

Perfect.

I have no issue with a real man named Jesus that preached for people to try a little harder to get along.

a reply to: Answer

The Great Flood:

You a right he was more of an anti establishment , in the temple he questioned the morality of the elders and they saw it as a threat to the old Jewish way that's why the Jewish Sanhedrin saw I necessary to put him to death.
reply to: Answer

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Answer

The Great Flood:

I've heard the theory before. There is some evidence of wide-scale flooding at certain points in the history of Earth.

There are mountains of evidence that disprove the worldwide flood story, especially as it happened in the Bible.

This thread isn't about going back and forth with the same old pseudoscience to "prove" the stories in the Bible. Please don't derail the thread.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Answer

Take out the global floods, talking shrubbery, water-walking, the Old Testament, and the rest of the nonsense and you're left with a message from Jesus that is mostly good advice and a good moral guide for humanity. It's the rest that is so hard for people to accept.

Perfect.

I have no issue with a real man named Jesus that preached for people to try a little harder to get along.

That's the unfortunate bit... the good part of the message is lost in all the damnation and idiotic nonsense.

a reply to: Answer

I have to agree with Bone75 here.

We'll all find out for ourselves sooner or later. Why is destroying Christianity so important to you folks? For a bunch non-believers, ya'll sure spend a lot of time obsessing over it.

I get that you're just positing an alternate theory about who and what Jesus is/was, but your ideas really arent that new or original. Why dont you start with Jesus' actual words, where He claimed to be the fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecies. Jesus is not what modern man makes of Him, Jesus is the Old Testament fulfilled. Start with the OT, then draw the parallels to Jesus. If you are honest with yourself, you will see that the Jesus of the Gospels was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Ancient of Ages, the Angel of the Lord (Christophany), YHWH.

So, the only question that is left, is whether or not the Gospels were an accurate depiction of Jesus. The resurrection story is rooted in the OT prophecies, not the pagan lore. You'll have to look further than the theosphical propaganda to see that. The Bible is a complete unit. No unnessecary books added and nothing taken away. There are slight variences between the older and newer manuscripts, but the original Hebrew and Greek text was written in a special style, to ensure the veracity of the text. As far as I can tell, all prophecies, poems, and psalms found in the bible are metered so that syllable count of every completed syntactical paragraph is evenly divisible by seven. Even Jesus words in all of Matt 24 total out to 1,687 syllables, which again, is divisible by 7.

So, while your argument might sound convincing to the average Joe, proving your case against the metered bible will be an up-hill battled for you. If you are successful, then kudos to you my friend, but if you fail, then you will have to spend your afterlife knowing that you slandered the one and only King of kings and creator of the universe.

All you have to do for salvation is believe that Jesus redeemed you from sin, with His own death on the cross. Given the possibility that I might be right, then I would do some serious research to find the truth if I were you. Your eternal soul might depend on what you believe.

Here are some of my opinions on the Jesus story.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

The Zodiac

In " The Christ Conspiracy", Acharya S elucidates that the many motives as to why these narratives are so similar, with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, and who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were all based on the movements of the Sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet because the Sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe. Or in other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the Sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the Sun through the heavens.

For instance, many of the world's crucified godmen have their traditional birthday on December 25th ("Christmas"). This is because the ancients recognized that from an earthcentric perspective the Sun makes an annual descent southward until December 21st or 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops moving southerly for three days and then starts to move northward again. During this time, the ancients declared that "God's Sun" had "died" for three days and was "born again" on December 25th.

The ancients realized quite abundantly that they needed the Sun to return every day and that they would be in big trouble if the Sun continued to move southward and did not stop and reverse its direction. Thus, these many different cultures celebrated the "Sun of God's" birthday on December 25th.

The following are the characteristics of the "Sun of God"
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the Sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin."
The Sun is the "Light of the World."
The Sun "cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him."
The Sun rising in the morning is the "Savior of mankind."
The Sun wears a corona, "crown of thorns" or halo.
The Sun "walks on water."
The Sun's "followers," "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the Sun must pass.
The Sun at 12:00 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High"; thus, "he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The Sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The Sun is hung on a cross or "crucified," which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The Egyptian Pharaohs also identified themselves in life with the Sun god Horus and in death with his father Osiris. These myths identified the Pharaoh as both the earthly form of the royal falcon god who triumphed over his enemies and the pious son who claims the throne after the death of his father. Whilst Osiris ruled the dead in the underworld, Horus ruled the living. Horus and Osiris, just like Jesus, became interchangeable in the mythos ("I and my Father are one"). Horus, who predates the Christ by 3000 years shared the following in common with him.

Horus was called "Iusa/Iao/Iesu/Iusha" the "KRST," with Iusha even contributing to the name of Jesus which in Hebrew of course is Yeshua (Iusha). In the Old Testament, it is Joshua (Iusha) son of Jacob.
Horus became born of the virgin Isis-Meri (Mary) on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph").
He was of royal descent.
At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.
Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.
He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").
He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.
Horus walked on water.
His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."
He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."
Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God’s Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.
He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.
He came to fulfill the Law.
Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One."
Horus's principal enemy was "Set" (biblical Seth) or "Sata" (Satan) Set represents the Serpent of the Night. Horus is the Golden Sun (Son) it becomes the struggle between day and night for supremacy.
Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."

I never understand why people attack or try to explain other people's beliefs. I just dont get it. This isn't an attack on the OP but it just sort of brought this to the forefront. I have never gotten why people take pleasure out of trying to change the way people think. So they believe in a superior being who lives somewhere we cant see until we die, so what they want to believe in Xenu and the whole SCIFI backstory. I mean why is it important to anyone else but the person who believes it and before you mention the terrorism and all that junk being corruptions from religion there are far more peaceful believers in the world than terrorists or extremists who act out their extreme views.

Look there is an old say 'Live and let Live' which I take as basically being let people live their lives the way they want and you live yours the way you want. Just enjoy what you like to enjoy, I'm babbling, yes but still you have to get my point. Why are we always trying to disprove things when they help so many people, the amount of good definitely out weighs the bad that religion has done and we should be proud of it. Am I saying the world wouldn't be the same if there wasn't religion? who knows, what I'm saying is basically, YOU BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU WANT AND LET THOSE WHO TAKE COMFORT IN THEIR OWN BELIEFS DO SO.

(I'm using caps so it stands out rather than use an angry voice, like I've been accused of before.)

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So, while your argument might sound convincing to the average Joe, proving your case against the metered bible will be an up-hill battled for you.

Even if it were true that the Bible is coded with some kind of meter, that doesn't prove the stories are true. As a matter of fact, if there is a coded meter within the text of the Bible, that would actually speak against the stories being true. They be written to fit some hidden code, underneath the narrative.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So, while your argument might sound convincing to the average Joe, proving your case against the metered bible will be an up-hill battled for you.

Even if it were true that the Bible is coded with some kind of meter, that doesn't prove the stories are true. As a matter of fact, if there is a coded meter within the text of the Bible, that would actually speak against the stories being true. They be written to fit some hidden code, underneath the narrative.

It does when the meter starts predicting the future.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So, while your argument might sound convincing to the average Joe, proving your case against the metered bible will be an up-hill battled for you.

Even if it were true that the Bible is coded with some kind of meter, that doesn't prove the stories are true. As a matter of fact, if there is a coded meter within the text of the Bible, that would actually speak against the stories being true. They be written to fit some hidden code, underneath the narrative.

My thoughts as well. A metered code suggest that the Bible is a complete work of fiction, not a collection of historical texts compiled into a holy book.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So, while your argument might sound convincing to the average Joe, proving your case against the metered bible will be an up-hill battled for you.

Even if it were true that the Bible is coded with some kind of meter, that doesn't prove the stories are true. As a matter of fact, if there is a coded meter within the text of the Bible, that would actually speak against the stories being true. They be written to fit some hidden code, underneath the narrative.

It does when the meter starts predicting the future.

Oh no... not this crap...

This goes right back to my point about rational people having trouble accepting the Bible. For every good piece of advice, there are 5 completely illogical statements that some believers defend wholeheartedly.