It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

My take on the true story of Jesus... if he existed.

page: 2
13
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:28 PM
link   
a reply to: Danny85

I'm not trying to influence anyone's beliefs. I find religion fascinating and it's a great topic of discussion when all parties can engage objectively without letting emotion overrule common sense. Unfortunately, that happens practically never.

To some, this discussion is no different than interpreting a work of allegorical fiction to understand the true meaning.
edit on 4/7/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:29 PM
link   
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I've seen the comparisons before and that's where I think a lot of the "miraculous" material comes from that was added to the story of who Jesus actually was, as a person.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:33 PM
link   

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
Why dont you start with Jesus' actual words,


We really don't know what Jesus' actual words were, do we? Since he didn't write any part of the Bible himself.

A non-condescending and serious question that has a follow-up: Do you believe that all of the Bible is true and meant to be taken literally?
edit on 4/7/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:36 PM
link   
a reply to: Answer

The first 40 syllables of Matt 24 are set the conversation outside the temple...the same temple that was sacked only 40 years earlier, and completely destroyed 40 years after. The pattern doesnt stop there. I'm still working on the rest of the dates, but so far, Matt 24's meter goes as far as tagging Pope Pious' unsuccessful attempts at deposing Queen Mary I, and Queen Victoria's rise to the title of Empress of India.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:42 PM
link   
a reply to: Answer

All of the metered text is true, which is 99.99% of the modern bible (Mark 16:9-20 doesnt belong in the bible there are a few other snippets like this). I take most of the text literally, and some of it symbolic when symbolism is employed. Sometimes the bible combines symbolism and literalism for a specific interpretation to show the irony in certain Satanic conspiracies.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:42 PM
link   
To me it is telling that of all these numerous threads created to disprove religion, it is ALWAYS Christainity that is the target.

I have never seen one of the many frequent deniers of Jesus start a thread challenging the beliefs of any other major religion.

IMHO the frequent need to disprove the account of Jesus is because it is the one TRUTH that matters.

I believe in the heart of the naysayers there is a nagging of Truth that they will NOT consider. And to justify their willful rejection of that Truth there is a never ending attempt at justification through rationalization.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:48 PM
link   

originally posted by: stosh64
To me it is telling that of all these numerous threads created to disprove religion, it is ALWAYS Christainity that is the target.

I have never seen one of the many frequent deniers of Jesus start a thread challenging the beliefs of any other major religion.

IMHO the frequent need to disprove the account of Jesus is because it is the one TRUTH that matters.

I believe in the heart of the naysayers there is a nagging of Truth that they will NOT consider. And to justify their willful rejection of that Truth there is a never ending attempt at justification through rationalization.



You can see it as some big conspiracy against Christianity if you want... it just so happens that I was raised a Christian and this is the religion about which I'm knowledgeable.

But hey, whatever floats your goat.
edit on 4/7/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:48 PM
link   
a reply to: Answer

I do like this take on Jesus, it fairly chimes with me on a personal level and i've thought broadly the same thing for a long time - that he was probably essentially one in a long list of "holy men", who was mythologised in a familiar pattern with familiar symbols (etc), and then turned into, ugh, the church, politics etc... and The Bible nicely edited and authorised via committee to suit this.

I've also long thought that his subtext to heaven was likely equivalent to release from the cycle of birth and death/Samsara etc.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 06:52 PM
link   
a reply to: stosh64

This is true, why is it never Allah, Mohammed, Buddha, Chongo, or any other religious character in question? I realize Christians often fail at living by Jesus words, and for that reason the bible is the casualty, but why is it always Christianity that is being singled out.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 07:01 PM
link   
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Firstly, i don't see this thread as being hateful in any way, it's essentially about comparative mythology. While i have not seen similar threads on alternative narratives of other founders of major religions on ATS in the last couple of years, there have been plenty over a longer period of time.

Outside of ATS, i'm sure that you are aware that there are a plethora of writers who interpret other religions, founders and figures in this kind of manner.
edit on 7-4-2015 by skalla because: clarity

edit on 7-4-2015 by skalla because: meh, wasnt quite clear enough



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 07:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Answer

All of the metered text is true, which is 99.99% of the modern bible (Mark 16:9-20 doesnt belong in the bible there are a few other snippets like this). I take most of the text literally, and some of it symbolic when symbolism is employed. Sometimes the bible combines symbolism and literalism for a specific interpretation to show the irony in certain Satanic conspiracies.


Are these statements and verses true?

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever." (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them." (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you." (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

"If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife" (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death." (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

"But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst." (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

"Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him." (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)



I could keep going. Verses like these are why so many people have trouble accepting the Bible as the "unwavering word of god." If those verses accurately describe god's wishes, I sure as hell don't want to associate with him.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 07:07 PM
link   

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: stosh64

This is true, why is it never Allah, Mohammed, Buddha, Chongo, or any other religious character in question? I realize Christians often fail at living by Jesus words, and for that reason the bible is the casualty, but why is it always Christianity that is being singled out.


There are plenty of issues with those characters, too... but again, I'm not knowledgeable enough about those religions to offer alternate theories for their religious texts.

Besides, we all know that if you dare question Allah, someone will hunt you down and murder you.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 07:07 PM
link   
a reply to: stosh64

I think it has less to do with us having a nagging of truth (I certainly don't have a nagging truth like you imply), and more to do with Christianity being what people are more familiar with, and have experienced in their life. I wouldn't attempt to disprove Islam, for example, because I don't know the Qur'an. I would not be able to hold my own in a debate about it. I have no idea of all it's flaws, or where to find them. My knowledge of the finer details of other religions is limited.

Christianity is what I know. It's been part of my life since my inception. I've read the books, I've memorized the verses, and I've been a Christian. In my teens I started asking questions, and (sparing you the details) eventually I decided I couldn't believe any of it if I was to be intellectually honest with myself. On that day I realized the truth.

I know there are other people out there like me. Who have questions and doubts about their faith in Christianity. If I make a thread or post that goes against Christianity in one way or another, I do so for them. Not for those that have closed their mind to the possibility they may be wrong, or are comfortable with their beliefs regardless of the many issues with it as a whole.

I realize I said, "closed their mind to the possibility they may be wrong" as if I am right and they are wrong. Have I closed my mind to the possibility my atheist stance is wrong? No. But as far as the Christian God (and by extension Judaism and Islam) goes I am 100% certain I am not. Also pretty damn sure about the other religions.

Do they all have pieces of a larger puzzle? Sure, maybe. I don't know. That still makes them wrong in of themselves. I don't think this thread was meant to be a prove or disprove God thread. So I won't dive into all the reasons why I find Christianity and religion lack credibility.

All that said, I do not deny that religion has its positives. I would ultimately like to see it evolve past claiming things as divine truths, and using archaic texts to justify any number of bullcrap actions and stances. Otherwise, I'd like to see it on its way out. It's dangerous in the grand scheme of things.


edit on 4-7-2015 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 07:19 PM
link   
a reply to: WakeUpBeer




posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 07:36 PM
link   
a reply to: Answer

Hahaha! Thank you!

Just stay away from my instruments.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 07:52 PM
link   
a reply to: Answer

Yes, I do believe in each one of those verses. I initially had trouble with them early in my faith, but I have come to understand that we are all slaves, born into bondage of sin. Jesus bought us from the bondage of sin. The OT Law is fulfilled, those laws no longer stand, but in their day, they revealed the true nature of life as a sinner....we are slaves to be bought and sold, abused or blessed. No man is truely free in this age, not even you. So, which master will you serve? You have been purchased by the blood of Christ, so will you choose Sin or Christ?



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 08:05 PM
link   
a reply to: skalla

I didnt say the thread was hateful. I just said that Christianity was once again singled out. However, the OP did say that he/she chose to speak on the topic of Jesus because of familiarity with Christianity. Either way, here on ATS, and other forums, Christianity is often picked on, and in my opinion, to separate Jesus from the OT prophecies is an attack more subtle and malicious (even if done unconsciously) than hateful words. To separate Jesus from the OT requires total ignorance on the subject or a willful desire to cherry pick verses out of context and offer a distorted interpretation.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 08:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: skalla

I didnt say the thread was hateful. I just said that Christianity was once again singled out. However, the OP did say that he/she chose to speak on the topic of Jesus because of familiarity with Christianity. Either way, here on ATS, and other forums, Christianity is often picked on, and in my opinion, to separate Jesus from the OT prophecies is an attack more subtle and malicious (even if done unconsciously) than hateful words. To separate Jesus from the OT requires total ignorance on the subject or a willful desire to cherry pick verses out of context and offer a distorted interpretation.


Many Christians generally try very hard to distance their beliefs from the Old Testament because it's not palatable to the majority of people.

In my experience, many Christians would prefer if people ignored the murdery, rapey, slavey, incesty, and baby-deathy parts of the Bible and focus on the good parts.
edit on 4/7/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 08:55 PM
link   
a reply to: Answer

This is true. The Old Testament is a hard pill to swallow, because it shows humanity's fallen nature in contrast to God's perfect nature. In the post-modern "Democratic" Age, we like to think that we have largely left the murder, rape, slavery and injustice behind, but all we need to do is look towards ISIS and the forgotten reality of our nature catches up with us. I wonder how long it will take the West to descend into our savage nature once it loses the upper hand in the world?

Jesus warned about that in Matt 24; Brother agaisnt brother, kingdom agaisnt kingdom. The OT tells us why we are this way in Gen 2&3. The rest of the OT proves it with the Law.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 08:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Answer

This is true. The Old Testament is a hard pill to swallow, because it shows humanity's fallen nature in contrast to God's perfect nature.


Just wondering. How does that apply when the majority, if not all of those "hard pills to swallow", were commanded or condoned by God personally?


edit on 4-7-2015 by WakeUpBeer because: typo



new topics

top topics



 
13
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join