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My take on the true story of Jesus... if he existed.

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posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 10:41 PM
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a reply to: Answer

War and legal execution is not the same as murder, which is premeditated. Nor is rape the same as marriage. Rape is a violent sexual crime.




posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 10:42 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

God had specific rules about the Sabbath to teach rest and worship. If Israel did not comply, bad things happened. After all, it was God who delivered Israel from the slavery in Egypt. A person who did not rest on the Sabbath, did not rest his faith in God.

Marriages were always arranged in those days, whether in Israel or in the gentile nations. As part of the curse that God put on the earth, a wife is alway to obey her husband. This curse will be lifted at the end of the Millennium. This was a general understanding in those days. I dont see how this constitutes rape, which is a violent sexual crime.

In the OT, the "rod" or "staff" was a device of disipline. The only justification for beating a slave with a staff would be for criminal punishment. Im pretty sure that Exodus 21:20-21 does not condone the general mistreatment of slaves.


So murder and rape are justified if god condones it?

Sounds an awful lot like the principles of fundamentalist Islam which are denounced by all rational people.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 10:44 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So if you are a female virgin, and Gods army comes crashing through your city walls killing all the men, deflowered woman, and children, then you get taken captive and made to marry a soldier who killed everyone you knew, and have his children.. It's not rape? It's a beautiful thing?

A forced marriage made from war.

Nothing violent or sexual about that.. nope.


edit on 4-7-2015 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 10:47 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Answer

War and legal execution is not the same as murder, which is premeditated. Nor is rape the same as marriage. Rape is a violent sexual crime.



You're picking and choosing which verses you want to respond to. Try reading them all...

"God told them" to plunder entire cities, kill all the men, take the women and children as slaves and "wives", and you're fine with that because "god is perfect so it was justified"??? In many cases, "god ordered this" just because the people in that city were guilty of some minor infraction that offended god's delicate sensibilities. Could it possibly be that these violent, rapey douchebags used god as their excuse to commit atrocities, just like fundamentalist Muslims? Nah... couldn't be.

If you condone that sort of behavior, you're delusional.
edit on 4/7/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 10:51 PM
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a reply to: windword

No, I have shown you where to look. Its you who refuses to see.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 10:53 PM
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a reply to: Answer

That's just how it goes. Ofc you know that from other threads.

I've spoken to some of the people here on this subject before and there is no changing their mind that everything in the OT was divine and just.

Oh, and all man's fault.

Not the perfect and loving God who forgot to put "Thou shalt not own another human being as property" instead of "Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk" in the Ten Commandments, fault.


edit on 4-7-2015 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

It wasnt considered rape to the groom or the bride in those days, as it was COMMON KNOWLEDGE back then that women had no choice in marriage. The bride was give a mourning period, and then marriage, which was not rape by any standard back then.

You are judging their culture by today's standards.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:01 PM
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originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Answer

Well you don't know much about history...the fact you keep rephrasing "if he existed at all" shows your incompetence when it comes to doing good historical research. The burden of proof rest on me as you lack belief in the existence of the man.


Start out with an insult, that's good form.

The problem is, outside of the Bible, all references to Jesus are just hearsay. Sure, several historians mention a person who seems to match the description but none of those historians actually met the man... they only recorded stories they heard about him. Their word is just as reliable as the Bible and can't be presented as proof. It could all be grounded in myth and there's no way to prove the existence of Jesus as described in the Bible. The same historians that you are presenting as reliable sources are known for writing about (widely accepted as) mythological characters, embellishing the truth, and writing allegorical poetry.


edit on 4/7/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

It wasnt considered rape to the groom or the bride in those days, as it was COMMON KNOWLEDGE back then that women had no choice in marriage. The bride was give a mourning period, and then marriage, which was not rape by any standard back then.

You are judging their culture by today's standards.


In that case, god's sense of morality is unacceptable by modern standards.

It was "their culture" which was condoned by god... so you're saying god condones killing people for stupid reasons and taking their virgins as wives. Again, that's exactly the same mindset used by ISIS to justify their atrocities.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:08 PM
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a reply to: Answer

Im not picking and chosing anything. There are times when God told Israel to kill ALL of the enemy, and when they didnt follow those orders, the remnants of those enemies came back for Israel. War is violent, you'll have to come to terms with that. Furthermore, the Jesus that you applauded in the OP claimed to be YHWH, therefore it was Jesus in His pre-incarnate form who gave those orders.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:10 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest


Furthermore, the Jesus that you applauded in the OP claimed to be YHWH, therefore it was Jesus in His pre-incarnate form who gave those orders.


Except that the Jesus that I applaud isn't claiming to be the Old Testament god like you believe.

This goes back to that "some people take the story too literally" part of my OP.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:16 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Whatever you need to tell yourself bud.

The poor quality of women's rights back then, and the fact they were given a mourning period to get over the death and destruction their new husbands caused to acquire them doesn't make it ok. Remember, I said it wasn't rape in a conventional sense.

At least try to put yourself in the woman's shoes.

There you are doing whatever, with your family. Father, mother, maybe a younger brother. One day the city walls are overrun. All able bodied men are called to defend the city. Despite all their efforts, the enemy gets through. That's when the murder of the old, and the young starts. That's when the pillaging starts. All around you people are dead, or dying. Your father died during the initial defense of the city. Now, your mother is struck down in front of you, followed by your younger brother. You're a virgin, so you're considered a spoil of war. You're wretched from your home and carried off. The smell of death and fire is in the air. The wails and moans of those yet to be slain or taken captive fill your ears. Your eyes are full of tears. Your captor screams at you to stop screaming. You're taken away.

They give you some time to cool off. You'll get over it right? It's just your lot in life. How do you stay alive at this point? Do you keep screaming and crying? Do you fight back? Or do you accept your fate? Sure, you may have been arranged to marry someone else, now dead. So what's the big deal if your forced into a different marriage. Hey, they gave you time to mourn everything right? Now you're AOK. You are more than happy to please your father by mar- oh.. wait he's dead.. Your mother is going to be pro- oh wait.. she's dead.

What do you have left?

Memories of the destruction of all you knew as you're now on your back being implanted with the seed of the soldier who took all of it away from you. Only to give birth and raise a child that is going to go off and destroy some other families life.

Ask yourself, do you want to be in a position like that?

No? I didn't think so.

Not rape in a conventional sense. Nor is it an arranged marriage in the sense you mean. It is clearly wrong on multiple levels. If you don't want to attribute it to a form of rape, that's fine with me. I hope you can at least agree how despicable it is.

Satan has a better track record ffs.


edit on 4-7-2015 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:18 PM
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a reply to: Answer

In that case, god's sense of morality is unacceptable by modern standards.

It was "their culture" which was condoned by god... so you're saying god condones killing people for stupid reasons and taking their virgins as wives. Again, that's exactly the same mindset used by ISIS to justify their atrocities.


So what, you think modern society is so much more civilized? Look at America, its being torn apart at the seams over this dellusion of social equality and democracy...to the point that criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens, and politicians are above the law. God established Israel to represent Him on earth, and it was His right to protect His assets from the nations that represented fallen angels. There is more to this conflict that meets the eye.

The difference between Israel and ISIS is that Israel had the Shekainah manifestation of God to lead them. ISIS follows political puppet wearing a turbin.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:23 PM
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originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
There you are doing whatever, with your family. Father, mother, maybe a younger brother. One day the city walls are overrun. All able bodied men are called to defend the city. Despite all their efforts, the enemy gets through. That's when the murder of the old, and the young starts. That's when the pillaging starts. All around you people are dead, or dying. Your father died during the initial defense of the city. Now, your mother is struck down in front of you, followed by your younger brother. You're a virgin, so you're considered a spoil of war. You're wretched from your home and carried off. The smell of death and fire is in the air. The wails and moans of those yet to be slain or taken captive fill your ears. Your eyes are full of tears. Your captor screams at you to stop screaming. You're taken away.

They give you some time to cool off. You'll get over it right? It's just your lot in life. How do you stay alive at this point? Do you keep screaming and crying? Do you fight back? Or do you accept your fate? Sure, you may have been arranged to marry someone else, now dead. So what's the big deal if your forced into a different marriage. Hey, they gave you time to mourn everything right? Now you're AOK. You are more than happy to please your father by mar- oh.. wait he's dead.. Your mother is going to be pro- oh wait.. she's dead.

What do you have left?

Memories of the destruction of all you knew as you're now on your back being implanted with the seed the soldier who took all of it away from you. Only to give birth and raise a child that is going to go off and destroy some other families life.




Dude, it's ok... somebody in the city swept their kitchen on the Sabbath. That blasphemous virgin heathen bitch deserves what she gets as was decreed by the lord.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:24 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Answer

In that case, god's sense of morality is unacceptable by modern standards.

It was "their culture" which was condoned by god... so you're saying god condones killing people for stupid reasons and taking their virgins as wives. Again, that's exactly the same mindset used by ISIS to justify their atrocities.


So what, you think modern society is so much more civilized? Look at America, its being torn apart at the seams over this dellusion of social equality and democracy...to the point that criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens, and politicians are above the law. God established Israel to represent Him on earth, and it was His right to protect His assets from the nations that represented fallen angels. There is more to this conflict that meets the eye.

The difference between Israel and ISIS is that Israel had the Shekainah manifestation of God to lead them. ISIS follows political puppet wearing a turbin.



The irony is strong with you.

The fact that you can't see the obvious parallels shows a HIGH level of delusion.

Those "nations represented fallen angels"???? Yeah, just like "infidels deserve anything that happens to them because they deny Allah."

They're all bullsh1t excuses to justify murder, pillaging, and rape. There is no god that condones that sort of behavior. Use your brain, man.
edit on 4/7/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:26 PM
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a reply to: Answer

This goes back to that "some people take the story too literally" part of my OP.


This is "picking and choosing". Jesus equated Himself with God on multiple occasions, even saying,"before Abraham, I AM".

Where do you draw the line of what was to be take literally and what was symbolic? What evidence can you provide that His words were doctored? You either accept the gospels as they were written, by the disciples He chose, or you dont, there is no middle ground.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:30 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Answer

This goes back to that "some people take the story too literally" part of my OP.


This is "picking and choosing". Jesus equated Himself with God on multiple occasions, even saying,"before Abraham, I AM".

Where do you draw the line of what was to be take literally and what was symbolic? What evidence can you provide that His words were doctored? You either accept the gospels as they were written, by the disciples He chose, or you dont, there is no middle ground.


My point in the OP, which you apparently missed, was that Jesus' message was "god is within all of us."

You're using the literal definition that he meant "I am the physical son of god and I am the Abrahamic god."

I guess the entire OP went over your head.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:32 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: windword

No, I have shown you where to look. Its you who refuses to see.


It's not my job to prove your statement. It's up to you to show a concrete example of God's perfect nature. I can show you hundreds of Old Testament example of God's imperfect nature, beginning with Genesis 2:18.


edit on 7-4-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:36 PM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Do you think I dont take these things into consideration??? What do you think will happen to America when it falls??? Cake and ice cream???

The nations that Israel invaded were Ba'al worshippers. They incorperated child sacrifice into their orgies. They werent nice people.



posted on Apr, 7 2015 @ 11:39 PM
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a reply to: windword

No, you can show me hundreds of passages taken out of context. You're not going to get what you want out of me. How am I supposed to prove to you something that you have already ruled out?



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