HIDDEN CAMERA: Gay Wedding Cake At Muslim Bakeries

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: NavyDoc

And you still haven't figured out. I'm getting to think that the inability to think abstractly is a common trait of the left.

Another personal attack as expected from you. You know nothing about me.

No it's not. It's an observation concerning not being able to make a logical connection in, what now, 20 hours. One can know quite well if one can make abstract connections by how well they make the connections put before them.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: NavyDoc

Right. Sign over all your autonomy by having to get a licensed you are forced to do or lose your livelihood. Fascism?

Well see that's the thing...

I have no problem abiding by the discrimination laws in my land. And, in fact, even if they didn't exist, my business would still be open to all who enter. Because that's the moral fabric I live by anyways.

If you walk on two legs (and/or your four legged companion is your eyes for you)... welcome, take a seat, and let's do business.

I don't need the government to tell me to be a good person, but apparently there are plenty out there that do.



Fascism ?

No, it's called cohesive commerce under a free market structure.

Unless you want to open your business on a private island somewhere, where your business doesn't benefit from taxpayer infrastructure, government subsidies and tax breaks, with the added bonus of bypasser walk-in business...

Then by all means, you can make up your own rules as you go along because it'll be your own little country.

Forced commerce is anything but the free market.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: grandmakdw

And yet it was used repeatedly in early America to justify enslavement of the black man.

It may have been misunderstood - much like the whole "gay marriage is evil" attitude comes from misunderstood scripture.

This is an example of a liberal trying to prove that
Christians are evil and horrible people.

I will not bite.

Some Christians are indisputably horrible and evil people...ditto Muslims, Atheists et al.

I only take issue when Christians, Muslims et al try to use their religion to justify the same or claim their religion absolves them from responsibility for those evil and horrible actions.

Ok, so saying "I can't bake you a cake, or make you flowers, or photograph your wedding" because my religious values preclude participation in it. However, I can refer you to many others who will provide the service for you. That is evil and horrible?

You can't pick and choose which religions are justified in their discrimination in business. Everybody has a different idea of what their particular faith demands they do.

In this country...you are not allowed to discriminate in your business practices based on religion, race or sexual orientation. Personally? You can believe and practice whatever you choose...And people "believe" all kinds of things....but you can't discriminate in commercial business practices.

Amazing that some people still don't get that or think it should be otherwise.

Ahh...the good old days!

a reply to: CranialSponge

No, it's called cohesive commerce under a free market structure.

OoooK then.... I think we're probably done with rational discussion when you start making up terms of your own.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: IAMTAT

I was referring to the Christian baker. The gay couple who went to the Christian baker just wanted a plain generic cake with no topper or writing or photos. He refused.

And what of the Christian's Pizza joint...refusing to cater a gay wedding...but still offering to serve them or anyone else in their restaurant.

As is widely reported, they were subsequently run out of business due to protests, death and arson threats from the LGBT community.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Smack
a reply to: CranialSponge

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time grasping the concept of private ownership of property. Perhaps in Canadia they don't teach these things, but in America we still have a few rights left. I would ask that you look at it from another perspective and then see if you can empathize with the injustice of forcing someone to provide a service against their will.

What?

When you open a business, you are required to get a government business license. Is that different in Canada?

You are required to accept the terms of that contract.

If that contract, that you signed, states you can not discriminate against a customer - - - you can't. What you believe has nothing to do with it.

I have several business licenses and they do not even read like contracts and that verbiage is not on the liscense. I'm guessing you've never owned a business which is why you don't understand or have empathy for the other side.

originally posted by: CranialSponge

I don't need the government to tell me to be a good person, but apparently there are plenty out there that do.

For sure.

Can't tell you how many business my mom was refused entrance to because of her disability.

Wouldn't want to upset the other customers, ya know. Having a disabled person in the same proximity makes them feel uncomfortable.

a reply to: kaylaluv

What if a person has the only gas station for many miles and they refuse to sell gas to a gay guy who has run out and has nowhere else to go, but they sell the same gas to a straight guy that comes by at the same time?

Re your example ... This has occurred to me in real life ... When there was a petrol shortage here in the UK ... I tried to fill up at a petrol station ... The guy refused and pointed to a sign that said "Muslims only" ... I walked away noting his choice and bigotry ... Yes some people are bigots and racist ... it is a fact of life ... they are in all walks of life and races ...

So what is your solution ... for you have broadened the discussion by bringing in racism on top of bigotry ...

originally posted by: NavyDoc

But you can choose not to buy I cake. I can't choose not to sell it. You are not obligated to buy from me and you don't have to but if I don't sell to you, you want the state to destroy me. You have more choices than I with nothing to lose. You have more choice than I we are not equal and you wish to make the state an agent of force against me to bend me to your will--you don't really desire equality in the first place.

No. You don't want to sell cakes, don't sell them. Or sell them privately and not open to the public. Or advertise you make cakes for only Christians over the age of 30 who also drive Blue Cars. Hell, put up a sign and advertise that you sell cakes to everyone but mojom even. But if you're selling cakes today and open to the public and I'm the public and buying cakes today you have NO REASON to deny me buying a cake do you??? If you do What is your Reasonable Excuse for it??? Notice "Reasonable".

I said nothing about forcing you with a state agent yet. But if that was the case it wasn't my Will that made you offer cakes to whoever wanted to buy cakes. That was your free will that made that choice.

originally posted by: Smack
a reply to: CranialSponge

No, it's called cohesive commerce under a free market structure.

OoooK then.... I think we're probably done with rational discussion when you start making up terms of your own.

Just because he used "big words" doesn't mean he made them up. Dictionaries are your friend....just sayin

originally posted by: artistpoet
The guy refused and pointed a sign that said "Muslims only" ...

Is that legal in Canada?

Did you find out? Did you report it, or do anything about it?

I'm really curious.

I know here in the states if you are on Native American land - - they could tell a non native No.

Or if you are on private church property, they aren't under the same laws as a public business.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: kaylaluv

What if a person has the only gas station for many miles and they refuse to sell gas to a gay guy who has run out and has nowhere else to go, but they sell the same gas to a straight guy that comes by at the same time?

Re your example ... This has occurred to me in real life ... When there was a petrol shortage here in the UK ... I tried to fill up at a petrol station ... The guy refused and pointed a sign that said "Muslims only" ... I walked away noting his choice and bigotry ... Yes some people are bigots and racist ... it is a fact of life ... they are in all walks of life and races ...

So what is your solution ... for you have broadened the discussion by bringing in racism on top of bigotry ...

My solution is laws that don't allow discrimination based on race, religion or sexual orientation. People can be racists and bigots all they want - they just shouldn't be able to discriminate in their public business. That means they can't refuse to hire someone based on race/religion/sexual orientation, they can't refuse to rent an apartment to someone based on race/religion/sexual orientation, and they can't refuse public accommodation to someone based on race/religion/sexual orientation.

Discrimination is not good no matter from who or what.

Islam is generally regarded as a Religion of intolerance, hatred and violence. Discrimination against homosexuals is expected from Muslims.

Christianity-if you follow the words of Jesus-is a Religion of Love and acceptance. Um....Hmmm....Oh yeah most Christians ignore Jesus and go straight to Paul's words or the old testament. In that case it's the same as Islam. Backwards and outdated.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: kaylaluv

What if a person has the only gas station for many miles and they refuse to sell gas to a gay guy who has run out and has nowhere else to go, but they sell the same gas to a straight guy that comes by at the same time?

Re your example ... This has occurred to me in real life ... When there was a petrol shortage here in the UK ... I tried to fill up at a petrol station ... The guy refused and pointed to a sign that said "Muslims only" ...

I am calling BS on that one....I mean BS mountain quality BS...that is better than Fox News ...

Fox News Apologizes for False Claims of Muslim-Only Areas in England and France
www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: NavyDoc

Forced commerce is anything but the free market.

You call it forced, I call it being a good citizen to my fellow countrymen.

Tomato, tomahto.

a reply to: Indigo5

It wasn't the size of the words that confused me. It was the pairing of undefined, unrelated and contradictory terms - words that were strung together in a grotesque imitation of a cogent thought - that persuaded me that She didn't have a clue.

a reply to: Annee

This did not occur in Canada it occurred in the UK ... Why would I want to buy petrol from a racist anyway ...
Yes I went to another petrol station ... who were also Muslim and they happily served me

a reply to: NavyDoc

No it's not. It's an observation concerning not being able to make a logical connection in, what now, 20 hours. One can know quite well if one can make abstract connections by how well they make the connections put before them.

LOL I already understood you long long before you even started personal attacks.

It is quite simple.

You support the business owners right to discriminate.
You are against discrimination.

Am I wrong?

This is AWESOME! It shows how Christian hating some are here on ATS and how hypocritical some have become. But didn't we already know this??? I mean...ATS throws a fit when a business owner won't serve a gay person, but they don't care about the same type of gay people being cut into little pieces in the Middle East.

No cake for a gay US citizen = HATE!
Death to gay people in ME = Silence

Why aren't the same "support gay people" DEMANDING...yes, f'ing DEMANDING we bomb the hell out of the Middle East? Because they HATE Christians...and give a pass to Muslims.

Deny that!

a reply to: Indigo5

You mean you are calling me a liar ... well I assure you I am not