HIDDEN CAMERA: Gay Wedding Cake At Muslim Bakeries

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: NavyDoc

But you can choose not to buy I cake. I can't choose not to sell it. You are not obligated to buy from me and you don't have to but if I don't sell to you, you want the state to destroy me. You have more choices than I with nothing to lose. You have more choice than I we are not equal and you wish to make the state an agent of force against me to bend me to your will--you don't really desire equality in the first place.

No. You don't want to sell cakes, don't sell them. Or sell them privately and not open to the public. Or advertise you make cakes for only Christians over the age of 30 who also drive Blue Cars. Hell, put up a sign and advertise that you sell cakes to everyone but mojom even. But if you're selling cakes today and open to the public and I'm the public and buying cakes today you have NO REASON to deny me buying a cake do you??? If you do What is your Reasonable Excuse for it??? Notice "Reasonable".

I said nothing about forcing you with a state agent yet. But if that was the case it wasn't my Will that made you offer cakes to whoever wanted to buy cakes. That was your free will that made that choice.

If you want the law to punish me for not wanting to do business with you, then you want the state to act as your agent.

Therein lies the differences between our phikosophical stances. If you don't want to sell me a cake, even though it p!sses me off, I'll go elseware for my cake because I believe that even people I don't like should have the freedom to choose.

It seems, on the other hand, if I want the same consideration back, you want the law to destroy me.

How tolerant of you.

a reply to: Indigo5

However, I can refer you to many others who will provide the service for you. That is evil and horrible?

Yep especially if the other places are too far away.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: NavyDoc

Forced commerce is anything but the free market.

You call it forced, I call it being a good citizen to my fellow countrymen.

Tomato, tomahto.

Being forced to do something does not make you a good citizen, doing it of your own free will does.

originally posted by: amazing
Discrimination is not good no matter from who or what.

Islam is generally regarded as a Religion of intolerance, hatred and violence. Discrimination against homosexuals is expected from Muslims.

Christianity-if you follow the words of Jesus-is a Religion of Love and acceptance. Um....Hmmm....Oh yeah most Christians ignore Jesus and go straight to Paul's words or the old testament. In that case it's the same as Islam. Backwards and outdated.

Talk about BS back-peddling. So a murderer killing someone is better than a first time murderer? OK...go with that.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: kaylaluv

What if a person has the only gas station for many miles and they refuse to sell gas to a gay guy who has run out and has nowhere else to go, but they sell the same gas to a straight guy that comes by at the same time?

Re your example ... This has occurred to me in real life ... When there was a petrol shortage here in the UK ... I tried to fill up at a petrol station ... The guy refused and pointed to a sign that said "Muslims only" ...

I am calling BS on that one....I mean BS mountain quality BS...that is better than Fox News ...

Fox News Apologizes for False Claims of Muslim-Only Areas in England and France
www.nytimes.com...

Calling her a liar then?

a reply to: NavyDoc

Being forced to do something does not make you a good citizen

Well, exactly. It makes you a slave.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: NavyDoc

No it's not. It's an observation concerning not being able to make a logical connection in, what now, 20 hours. One can know quite well if one can make abstract connections by how well they make the connections put before them.

LOL I already understood you long long before you even started personal attacks.

It is quite simple.

You support the business owners right to discriminate.
You are against discrimination.

Am I wrong?

And again you missed the point. Go back to that thread and start at page 29 and go to the end.

where your business doesn't benefit from taxpayer infrastructure

excellent point. the moment government got a hold of people's finances, that was all she wrote. now we either pay up and follow whatever they say our religion should look like, if we have a religion, or pay the consequences - cause the taxpayers have spoken. i get it now.

a reply to: NavyDoc

And again you missed the point. Go back to that thread and start at page 29 and go to the end.

Nope I didn't miss the point.

You believe that business owners should be "equal" to customers. They should have the right to refuse services for ANY reason. The government should not force business owners to sell to everyone.

You are the one who is missing the point.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Annee

This did not occur in Canada it occurred in the UK ... Why would I want to buy petrol from a racist anyway ...
Yes I went to another petrol station ... who were also Muslim and they happily served me

OK.

Just asked for clarification, cuz I don't know the laws.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Calling her a liar then?

Him

Yes he did ... it is a fact that some people are racist and bigots ... I am glad to be neither but am mature enough to realise the truth that racism and bigotry exists ...

a reply to: Annee

OK.

Just asked for clarification, cuz I don't know the laws.

Sure ... but even if the law stated that the racist petrol station should serve me against their will ... I would not give them my custom on principal

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Indigo5

You mean you are calling me a liar ... well I assure you I am not

Being specific to where this Petrol Station was located in the UK, the year this occurred etc. doesn't compromise your identity in any way. How about you provide some specifics to support what I consider an unbelievable claim?

I have to imagine a petrol station in the UK with a sign that says "Muslims Only" would have garnered some public attention?

Not to mention it would have been egregiously and blatantly illegal in the UK for the Petrol Station to have a Muslim Only sign. I can't imagine under what circumstances a Petrol Station owner would punish themselves financially while at the same time loudly inviting legal prosecution?

Yet you reported it to no one? No news outlets took notice? No passing law enforcement officer?

Yes. Your story appears fabricated to me..I am open to you providing specific evidence to the contrary?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: NavyDoc

And again you missed the point. Go back to that thread and start at page 29 and go to the end.

Nope I didn't miss the point.

You believe that business owners should be "equal" to customers. They should have the right to refuse services for ANY reason. The government should not force business owners to sell to everyone.

You are the one who is missing the point.

Nope. I led you to a specific conclusion and even crowed when you reached it but you still haven't recognized the point you made for me. Think!

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Indigo5

You mean you are calling me a liar ... well I assure you I am not

Being specific to where this Petrol Station was located in the UK, the year this occurred etc. doesn't compromise your identity in any way. How about you provide some specifics to support what I consider an unbelievable claim?

I have to imagine a petrol station in the UK with a sign that says "Muslims Only" would have garnered some public attention?

Not to mention it would have been egregiously and blatantly illegal in the UK for the Petrol Station to have a Muslim Only sign.

Yet you reported it to no one? No news outlets took notice? No passing law enforcement officer?

Yes. Your story appears fabricated to me..I am open to you providing specific evidence to the contrary?

You live in the UK?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: NavyDoc

Forced commerce is anything but the free market.

You call it forced, I call it being a good citizen to my fellow countrymen.

Tomato, tomahto.

Being forced to do something does not make you a good citizen, doing it of your own free will does.

I do it of my own free will, whether the laws are there or not.

And the reason these laws are in place is because it's the only way to achieve a successful, cohesive society due to a large portion of those citizens not wanting to do so of their own free will. In order to have a community, you must function in a communal way.

You better believe there are tons of businesses who would not service certain individuals/groups if they were given the free choice.

We may not always agree with some laws, but some of these laws are a necessity for good reason.

... and it's not just to irritate the anarchists.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
If you want the law to punish me for not wanting to do business with you, then you want the state to act as your agent.

Therein lies the differences between our phikosophical stances. If you don't want to sell me a cake, even though it p!sses me off, I'll go elseware for my cake because I believe that even people I don't like should have the freedom to choose.

It seems, on the other hand, if I want the same consideration back, you want the law to destroy me.

How tolerant of you.

You can stop with all the "intolerance" blaming BS and accusations that I want to force you in to doing something or taking away your Freedom. I'm not doing the same sh*t toward you so don't do it with me. We can just disagree and be done with it if you want but don't get pissy.

If I'm offering cakes to the public and I'm open for business I have no reason to not sell to you just because who you are. If I do I'd at least have the balls to admit that I'm an A-hole and a bad business man. I wouldn't go put the blame on my Religion or God.

Your argument and mine are the same and I can say the same back to you. You aren't being considerate toward me by taking away my freedom to buy your cakes like everyone else can. It's the same argument that you are using only reversed which is just as valid. Like it or not. Too bad.

The way I see it you want to decide the freedom of choice of the consumer by restricting their choice to only these other cakes over here rather than letting them decide for themselves. Your choice to make and offer cakes came before their choice to buy them. Therefor you are the one in the wrong. I didn't make you open your doors or offer to make cakes. You did. After your offer, came my agreement to buy.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Nope. I led you to a specific conclusion and even crowed when you reached it but you still haven't recognized the point you made for me. Think!

So you are saying I am wrong?

Do you or do you not believe that the government should force business owners to serve everyone?
Are you or are you not against discrimination?

Really really really simple.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Indigo5

You mean you are calling me a liar ... well I assure you I am not

Being specific to where this Petrol Station was located in the UK, the year this occurred etc. doesn't compromise your identity in any way. How about you provide some specifics to support what I consider an unbelievable claim?

I have to imagine a petrol station in the UK with a sign that says "Muslims Only" would have garnered some public attention?

Not to mention it would have been egregiously and blatantly illegal in the UK for the Petrol Station to have a Muslim Only sign.

Yet you reported it to no one? No news outlets took notice? No passing law enforcement officer?

Yes. Your story appears fabricated to me..I am open to you providing specific evidence to the contrary?

You live in the UK?

Visited often and have friends there? But that said, not sure what your point is...? I don't have to live in the UK to know that it doesn't rain cats there?

originally posted by: CranialSponge

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: NavyDoc

Forced commerce is anything but the free market.

You call it forced, I call it being a good citizen to my fellow countrymen.

Tomato, tomahto.

Being forced to do something does not make you a good citizen, doing it of your own free will does.

I do it of my own free will, whether the laws are there or not.

And the reason these laws are in place is because it's the only way to achieve a successful, cohesive society due to a large portion of those citizens not wanting to do so of their own free will. In order to have a community, you must function in a communal way.

You better believe there are tons of businesses who would not service certain individuals/groups if they were given the free choice.

We may not always agree with some laws, but some of these laws are a necessity for good reason.

... and it's not just to irritate the anarchists.

The very fact that you would do so even without a law is evidence that your very premise is false. You yourself is proof to the contrary.

We don't need all these laws but it'd upset the fascists.