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HIDDEN CAMERA: Gay Wedding Cake At Muslim Bakeries

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posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 04:48 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: NavyDoc



When the state forces him to serve the guy he is not free. What you really want to do is pick and choose who gets to be free to make their own choices.


I imagine plenty of white business owners said the exact same thing when they were 'forced' to serve a sandwich and a cup of coffee to a black person at their lunch counter.



Reducto ad absurdum. Can you bring up an example from say, this century?



...says someone who can't really come up with a good counter-argument. LOL- it was only 50 years ago.


More like 60 years ago. You don't think society has not changed in 60 years? Really? The communication we are doing right now would have been Magic 60 years ago. You honestly think the vast majority of people will plunge us back into the dark ages without the force of government forcing us to get along? In today's economy? Never mind that Jim Crow was the government to begin with.


And because of recent legislation forcing people to treat gays equally, in 60 years people will change and not have any problem serving gays or gay weddings. People don't change easily. You have to force it in the beginning. But they eventually get used to it, and then it's all good.




posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: IAMTAT

Is it bigoted and discriminatory for a specific group of citizens to selectively single out one particular religion for condemnation and persecution, when another religion practicing the exact same thing is not treated in the same manner?



That happens every day in this country? From the KKK to the protests surrounding every time a mosque is built ..ad infinium. As a matter of fact bigoted and discriminatory world views are a constitutionally protected right...just as folks are protected from being discriminated against in their business dealings.

You seem to be not aware of the differentiation between Business Practices and Personal beliefs...and the legal and constitutional differences.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: NavyDoc



And you are using the same illogical arguement over and over again that not forcing people to give you stuff is "persecution."


Yup, the same illogical argument you're using over and over again that "forcing" businesses to sell their products to all citizens equally is somehow robbing businesses of their "freedoms".

Like I said, the white folk cried the same fowl play 50+ years ago.

And here we are, yet again.

Selective memory is funny that way.


And it's an example of lack of understanding of this history in your part.

Please explain to me how forcing someone to do something against their will not hurting their freedom? Would not forcing somone to shut up hurt their freedom of speech? Would you then support a law that bans Westboro Baptist from saying what they want to say?



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

What does free speech have anything to do with business commerce ?



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

You didn't answer my question first. Look back, I asked it first and you don't get to dodge it.

How does you and I being free to decide to do business together or not make us unequal?


You're calling "firstsies"???

I'm not doging anything.

We are free to decide to do business. You're open for business. That was your free choice. My free choice is choosing to take you up on your offer. See we're both freely doing business.

In fact by not doing business with me for no other reason than because it's me, you are the one forcing me in to a position that isn't fair. You made the offer but have restricted my freedom to take you up on it. If you don't want my business, don't be open for business and I'll go elsewhere.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: NavyDoc



When the state forces him to serve the guy he is not free. What you really want to do is pick and choose who gets to be free to make their own choices.


I imagine plenty of white business owners said the exact same thing when they were 'forced' to serve a sandwich and a cup of coffee to a black person at their lunch counter.



Reducto ad absurdum. Can you bring up an example from say, this century?



...says someone who can't really come up with a good counter-argument. LOL- it was only 50 years ago.


More like 60 years ago. You don't think society has not changed in 60 years? Really? The communication we are doing right now would have been Magic 60 years ago. You honestly think the vast majority of people will plunge us back into the dark ages without the force of government forcing us to get along? In today's economy? Never mind that Jim Crow was the government to begin with.


And because of recent legislation forcing people to treat gays equally, in 60 years people will change and not have any problem serving gays or gay weddings. People don't change easily. You have to force it in the beginning. But they eventually get used to it, and then it's all good.

Until the state uses the power you gave them to force YOU to do something YOU don't want to do and then it becomes ungood very rapidly.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
This whole stunt is comparing apples to oranges.

The guy in the video is trying to make the bakers put something specifically gay on the cake. The gay couple who went to the Christian baker were asking for a traditional cake with nothing gay on it.

I believe a baker can refuse any special decoration request. What he cannot refuse to do is to sell the exact same product to one group that he sells to another group. If he sells a white wedding cake with pink roses on it to a straight couple, then he should sell that same white wedding cake with pink roses on it to a gay couple (or a black couple, or an atheist couple, or a Muslim couple, etc.)

If this guy had gone into the Muslim bakery and asked for a traditional cake that any straight couple would buy (except that it would be for a gay couple) and the baker refused, then I would say that the Muslim bakery was wrong and should be held accountable. But that's not what happened here, is it?


I thought they wanted two men figurines on top? And that was what set the whole thing in motion.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 04:55 PM
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originally posted by: artistpoet
Forcing another to adopt the actions you see fit does not change their way of thinking ... and if their actions cause no harm to you or others then why attack them and cause a conflict that did not exist ... just walk away and allow each their own choices.






It begins the change. Then the next generation will be adjusted to the idea, and future generations will have trouble understanding why people had such a problem with equal treatment of gays.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: CranialSponge

It comes down to property rights. If I own the business, I can choose whom to serve. It's as simple as that. Let's skip delving into the history of Common Law and the Enlightenment period and just agree that you're wrong.

You cannot force people into service. That is slavery.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: NavyDoc



When the state forces him to serve the guy he is not free. What you really want to do is pick and choose who gets to be free to make their own choices.



I imagine plenty of white business owners said the exact same thing when they were 'forced' to serve a sandwich and a cup of coffee to a black person at their lunch counter.



Reducto ad absurdum. Can you bring up an example from say, this century?



...says someone who can't really come up with a good counter-argument. LOL- it was only 50 years ago.


More like 60 years ago. You don't think society has not changed in 60 years? Really? The communication we are doing right now would have been Magic 60 years ago. You honestly think the vast majority of people will plunge us back into the dark ages without the force of government forcing us to get along? In today's economy? Never mind that Jim Crow was the government to begin with.


And because of recent legislation forcing people to treat gays equally, in 60 years people will change and not have any problem serving gays or gay weddings. People don't change easily. You have to force it in the beginning. But they eventually get used to it, and then it's all good.

Until the state uses the power you gave them to force YOU to do something YOU don't want to do and then it becomes ungood very rapidly.



Meh, I didn't like the seat belt laws when they first came out (as a kid I grew up never wearing a seat belt). Now, I don't even think twice about buckling up, and my 13-year old looks at me like I have two heads when I tell her that I didn't wear a seat belt when I was her age.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: coop039

originally posted by: kaylaluv
This whole stunt is comparing apples to oranges.

The guy in the video is trying to make the bakers put something specifically gay on the cake. The gay couple who went to the Christian baker were asking for a traditional cake with nothing gay on it.

I believe a baker can refuse any special decoration request. What he cannot refuse to do is to sell the exact same product to one group that he sells to another group. If he sells a white wedding cake with pink roses on it to a straight couple, then he should sell that same white wedding cake with pink roses on it to a gay couple (or a black couple, or an atheist couple, or a Muslim couple, etc.)

If this guy had gone into the Muslim bakery and asked for a traditional cake that any straight couple would buy (except that it would be for a gay couple) and the baker refused, then I would say that the Muslim bakery was wrong and should be held accountable. But that's not what happened here, is it?


I thought they wanted two men figurines on top? And that was what set the whole thing in motion.


Nope. They wanted a plain wedding cake with no topper.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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Look, get used to it people.


You're going to have to get used to selling to gay folk.

Just like you had to get used to selling to black folk 60 years ago.

And in 60 years from now, you're going to have to get used to selling to alien folk from Alpha Centauri.

... and no doubt, when that happens you'll be screaming the same argument (yet again) that your freedoms as business owners are being ripped away from you.


Such is the way the ball bounces.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 05:02 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: NavyDoc

You didn't answer my question first. Look back, I asked it first and you don't get to dodge it.

How does you and I being free to decide to do business together or not make us unequal?


You're calling "firstsies"???

I'm not doging anything.

We are free to decide to do business. You're open for business. That was your free choice. My free choice is choosing to take you up on your offer. See we're both freely doing business.

In fact by not doing business with me for no other reason than because it's me, you are the one forcing me in to a position that isn't fair. You made the offer but have restricted my freedom to take you up on it. If you don't want my business, don't be open for business and I'll go elsewhere.


Ah, but we are not equal if you have that choice and I dont. You can come into my business and do business with me or not as you see fit but you don't want me to have the same right. Do business with you are your will or lose my liveyhood. When you want choice but don't want me to have choice. We are not equal.

And it wasn't cling "firsties" it was not letting you get away with the Hilkary Clinton technique of debate--I ignore the question and change the subject.

Certainly Chrustians passed the FRA law and probably most of the accomdation laws and tax laws and traffic laws. Hell, even out President says he's one.

Now can you point out in the letter of the law where any group is singled out?



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 05:02 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: NavyDoc



And you are using the same illogical arguement over and over again that not forcing people to give you stuff is "persecution."


Yup, the same illogical argument you're using over and over again that "forcing" businesses to sell their products to all citizens equally is somehow robbing businesses of their "freedoms".

Like I said, the white folk cried the same fowl play 50+ years ago.

And here we are, yet again.

Selective memory is funny that way.


And it's an example of lack of understanding of this history in your part.


I was there. The 50s, like most things of the past - - is selective memory.

Men, women, children by gender were still, mostly, forced into stereotype roles.

Yes, I lived prior to the Fair Housing Act, Disability Act, Civil Rights, and Madeline Murray O'Hare.

Jews in my public school were forced to participate in the Christmas program.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: CranialSponge
Look, get used to it people.


You're going to have to get used to selling to gay folk.

Just like you had to get used to selling to black folk 60 years ago.

And in 60 years from now, you're going to have to get used to selling to alien folk from Alpha Centauri.

... and no doubt, when that happens you'll be screaming the same argument (yet again) that your freedoms as business owners are being ripped away from you.


Such is the way the ball bounces.


And the pendulum swings and 60 years from now the government might force you not to sell to gay folk and you would have given the state the ability to do it to you, gleefully.

Be careful what you wish for, you may very well get it.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 05:05 PM
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"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: Smack



You cannot force people into service.


Yes they can.

The minute you sign your business license, you agree to the laws of the land with which you operate your business in. Whatever laws those may be, like it or lump it.

Don't like it and view it as "slavery" ?

Don't start up a public business.

Problem solved.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 05:06 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: NavyDoc



When the state forces him to serve the guy he is not free. What you really want to do is pick and choose who gets to be free to make their own choices.



I imagine plenty of white business owners said the exact same thing when they were 'forced' to serve a sandwich and a cup of coffee to a black person at their lunch counter.



Reducto ad absurdum. Can you bring up an example from say, this century?



...says someone who can't really come up with a good counter-argument. LOL- it was only 50 years ago.


More like 60 years ago. You don't think society has not changed in 60 years? Really? The communication we are doing right now would have been Magic 60 years ago. You honestly think the vast majority of people will plunge us back into the dark ages without the force of government forcing us to get along? In today's economy? Never mind that Jim Crow was the government to begin with.


And because of recent legislation forcing people to treat gays equally, in 60 years people will change and not have any problem serving gays or gay weddings. People don't change easily. You have to force it in the beginning. But they eventually get used to it, and then it's all good.

Until the state uses the power you gave them to force YOU to do something YOU don't want to do and then it becomes ungood very rapidly.



Meh, I didn't like the seat belt laws when they first came out (as a kid I grew up never wearing a seat belt). Now, I don't even think twice about buckling up, and my 13-year old looks at me like I have two heads when I tell her that I didn't wear a seat belt when I was her age.


I still hate seat belts.

But, my car doesn't move until everyone is buckled up - - including me



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 05:06 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: NavyDoc



And you are using the same illogical arguement over and over again that not forcing people to give you stuff is "persecution."


Yup, the same illogical argument you're using over and over again that "forcing" businesses to sell their products to all citizens equally is somehow robbing businesses of their "freedoms".

Like I said, the white folk cried the same fowl play 50+ years ago.

And here we are, yet again.

Selective memory is funny that way.


And it's an example of lack of understanding of this history in your part.


I was there. The 50s, like most things of the past - - is selective memory.

Men, women, children by gender were still, mostly, forced into stereotype roles.

Yes, I lived prior to the Fair Housing Act, Disability Act, Civil Rights, and Madeline Murray O'Hare.

Jews in my public school were forced to participate in the Christmas program.


And you still don't understand. You are a sweet old lady but it's not 1950 any more.



posted on Apr, 3 2015 @ 05:08 PM
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originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: Smack



You cannot force people into service.


Yes they can.

The minute you sign your business license, you agree to the laws of the land with which you operate your business in. Whatever laws those may be, like it or lump it.

Don't like it and view it as "slavery" ?

Don't start up a public business.

Problem solved.


Right. Sign over all your autonomy by having to get a licensed you are forced to do or lose your livelihood. Fascism?



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