Here We Go Again! Body cam footage Dallas PD shoot mentally ill man

a reply to: macman

I guess people's views and outlooks are a changing while I still uphold the old time morals of why take a life if it is not needed.I was raised to believe that should be the ABSOLUTE last resort no matter . To sum it up "do not take anything you dont use or cant replace unless absolutely needed"

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
I think the Police in The States are just really really badly trained.
They get frightened and shoot without thinking about any other alternatives.
Isnt it the States that blocked high IQ people from joining the police?
This is what happens.

LOL....as apposed to not being frightened when a crazy person charges you with a weapon?

I disagree with your assessment of these officers training. Their training very well may have saved their lives. personally I am glad one of the officers did not take a screwdriver to the eye or throat.

There is no time to think in that kind of situation. its a reflex action when your attacked at close range. The crazy weapon charging maniac was the initiator of force. The LE was forced to react to that threat.

LE are smarter than you think. I would like to see one of these high IQ individuals you describe handle that situation any better with what the officers had to work with.

Continue with the "Cops are Evil" agenda though. I like having them on my side. The more the better.

originally posted by: ObjectZero

originally posted by: twiztedjester
Much better video yet i still believe backing up when they seen the screwdriver would have possibly changes the outcome there was room to back between the car and garage door but it is much more apparent as to him going for the cop

Couldn't do that, you can't take your eyes off the person in question. He would have had to look bad or step back with out looking, both are count as no no's.

makes things a lot dif still use of deadly force wasnt necessary to me im sorry

I retract my earlier statement that the police could have over-reacted due to the EBOLA scare that was gripping Dallas. When the subject video was shot in June, Ebola hadn't yet arrived in the USA.

I don't know why they didn't just TASER the poor guy. Geesh.

a reply to: carewemust

10' min' range to use a taser. They don't normally carry the old small hand ones anymore.

originally posted by: retiredTxn


Dallas PD has a new policy that does not allow them to be interviewed By IA, or anyone else for 72 hours. Whether it was in place at this time, I'm not sure.

When an adrenaline dump like this occurs the human body reacts differently. You will have people who experience audio and visual exclusion. Time moving in slow motion or perceiving it as moving very fast.

As the adrenaline wears off the body adjusts and more memories surface, offering more detail of what occurred.

Secondly you run into due process issues by requiring an officer to complete a report when a homicide just occurred. We don't have the that type of policy in place but we are allowed to submit an initial report and have a few days to complete the official report.

originally posted by: ObjectZero
a reply to: carewemust

10' min' range to use a taser. They don't normally carry the old small hand ones anymore.

LEO cartridges for Taser are usually 15 feet and up. I have never seen an agency use the longer reaching ones due to difficulty (needing both probes to make contact becomes a problem). We also have access t ones where the probes are able to arc thru up to 2 1/2 inches of clothing and what not.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Yup paperwork makes the world go round.

a reply to: carewemust

I am not sure tasers are typically used to deal with full on, life threatening assault with a weapon in hand. I would think once it gets to that point the gloves are off. seems like tasers would be more preferred if there was no weapon involved.

I am a glass half full type of person. One less violent crazy person in the world who likes to attack people out of nowhere.

originally posted by: here4this you use a non-lethal shot to the leg , etc. to take them down.

Officers can NOT do this in the US. Use of a firearm is reserved for deadly force encounters. We do not shoot to wound we shoot to stop the threat.

As I posted earlier for another member - This explains why wounding, like you suggest, is not allowed.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: retiredTxn


Dallas PD has a new policy that does not allow them to be interviewed By IA, or anyone else for 72 hours. Whether it was in place at this time, I'm not sure.

When an adrenaline dump like this occurs the human body reacts differently. You will have people who experience audio and visual exclusion. Time moving in slow motion or perceiving it as moving very fast.

As the adrenaline wears off the body adjusts and more memories surface, offering more detail of what occurred.

Secondly you run into due process issues by requiring an officer to complete a report when a homicide just occurred. We don't have the that type of policy in place but we are allowed to submit an initial report and have a few days to complete the official report.

Kind of sounds like they go into shock.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: ObjectZero
a reply to: carewemust

10' min' range to use a taser. They don't normally carry the old small hand ones anymore.

LEO cartridges for Taser are usually 15 feet and up. I have never seen an agency use the longer reaching ones due to difficulty (needing both probes to make contact becomes a problem). We also have access t ones where the probes are able to arc thru up to 2 1/2 inches of clothing and what not.

Ah ok nice to know. I've worked more with alphabet soup then the police.

originally posted by: here4this
a reply to: macman

I guess people's views and outlooks are a changing while I still uphold the old time morals of why take a life if it is not needed.I was raised to believe that should be the ABSOLUTE last resort no matter . To sum it up "do not take anything you dont use or cant replace unless absolutely needed"

so they told him to drop the screwdriver and he refused. Would you have preferred to go hands on with this guy and risk being stabbed?

The easiest way to de-escalate would have been for the guy to comply with law enforcement instead of ignoring them and moving towards them.

a reply to: agenda51

A combination of the fight or flight response as well as shock. We can put a person through thousands of hours on shooting a gun and how to maintain the gun, how to use but nothing, and I mean nothing, can adequately prepare a person for taking the life of another person.

The reaction afterwards is dependent upon the person going through it and is not the same from officer to officer.

The last incident I responded to (officer involved) the officer who fired thought he fired 6 or 7 times. In reality, he fired 3 shots.

shooting to wound is just crazy talk by people who have no experience with firearms.

thats just a recipe for a lot of stray bullets spraying all over the place injuring innocent bystanders. any sane individual wants LE aiming center mass as much as possible. the thickest and broadest part of the body as to not have over penetration and insure striking the intended target.

You might see Martin Riggs shoot smiley faces in targets at 25 yards in lethal weapon but this is just not reality. LE are not snipers or competition shooters normally.

originally posted by: agenda51
a reply to: carewemust

I am not sure tasers are typically used to deal with full on, life threatening assault with a weapon in hand. I would think once it gets to that point the gloves are off. seems like tasers would be more preferred if there was no weapon involved.

I am a glass half full type of person. One less violent crazy person in the world who likes to attack people out of nowhere.

Some agencies prohibit the use of a Taser in a deadly force encounter.
Some agencies allow its use in those scenarios but only if another officer is present and they are lethal. (gun out if the taser fails).

A taser, just like a gun or bullets, can fail. If only one probe makes contact it does not work. The officer can either disengage OR they would need to close the gap and touch the tip of the taser to a part of the person body and cycle it again.

For those who are not familiar -
The probes on a taser, when they make correct contact (the ones that shoot out) is when you will get the individual locking up and falling. That response is only present while its cycled. Ones the taser stops cycling the person has complete freedom of movement. The effects of a taser are immediate, which is once the probes hit and it cycles, it starts and once the cycle is over, the person is fine with no after effects.

If only one probe hit and the officer touches the tip of the taser to the person, it completes the cycle and the person gets the cant move effect.

Finally, if a Taser has no cartridge then you will not get the temporary incapacitation result. Using just the tip with no cartridge is considered pain compliance.

a reply to: agenda51

Plus the few police I do know that have had to draw their weapon and fire didn't have 25 yards of space. Most was with in 15' to 20', not even close to 75'.

a reply to: ObjectZero

Let me clarify.. There are shorter ranged cartridges out there. I have never seen any law enforcement in my areas using the shorter range one. Standard is usually the 15 foot one.

As for alphabet agencies. My interaction with them have been the routine stuff and ive never seen them with tasers (although it would be nice if they had them - that way they can clean what they catch ).

originally posted by: ObjectZero
a reply to: agenda51

Plus the few police I do know that have had to draw their weapon and fire didn't have 25 yards of space. Most was with in 15' to 20', not even close to 75'.

On average most shootings occur with the 6-10 foot gap.

originally posted by: carewemust

I don't know why they didn't just TASER the poor guy. Geesh.

At that distance, there are no 2nd chances with a Taser.

a reply to: Xcathdra
Please read my other posts that state a round to the leg and he goes down. Situation probably resolved.