Here We Go Again! Body cam footage Dallas PD shoot mentally ill man

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
a reply to: Xcathdra

So, shoot first, answer questions later is your solution. Got that.

Not at all but again, way to make an asinine comment based on ignorance and pre conceived notions.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Because, it had no relevance to the method of how a bat was used against a knife-wielding person. It didn't matter how I'd arrived in that situation, except in adding more flesh to the bones of the anecdote.

a reply to: Xcathdra

You're a cop supporter through thick and thin. Don't talk to me about pre-conceived notions.

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
a reply to: Xcathdra

Because, it had no relevance to the method of how a bat was used against a knife-wielding person. It didn't matter how I'd arrived in that situation, except in adding more flesh to the bones of the anecdote.

not really no..

you only clarified because I asked what 2nd world country you come from where you walk around with a bat. You took a swipe at the US and apparently didn't like it being returned in kind. At least that's what I saw based on your responses.

is crime really that bad or is it more like Lord of flies meets Downton Abbey?

Removing you from the question though it still stands.. What kind of 2nd world country citizens walk around with bats?

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
a reply to: Xcathdra

You're a cop supporter through thick and thin. Don't talk to me about pre-conceived notions.

Suporter? lol..

I am a Police Officer and have many times taken arguments against law enforcement actions. In this case I am trying to explain to you how the law works in the US, since you are not from here, and how your experiences and knowledge of UK laws is not comparable to the US.

and yes, you have preconceived notions about Law Enforcement.

trying to use the rubber and glue argument wont change that.

Let me put it this way - I know what I am talking about and am trying to help you understand and clear up the misconceptions you seem to have about law enforcement in the US and lack of understanding of the Laws and court rulings on that topic.

You either want to learn, which includes all aspects, or you don't.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I'll type slowly for you. The bat wasn't being "walked around with," it was in its owner's house. I was in a dispute with said owner when he went indoors for it. I took it off him. He then went and got a knife, and got a severely bruised wrist and forearm for his troubles. Are we anywhere nearer to understanding what occurred yet, or do you need additional details?

a reply to: IvanAstikov

Oh so now its in the owners house.

this is my point.. Your story keeps changing.

Typing slow wont help you properly relate a story.

We have reached the point where the story you told has absolutely no bearing on what occurred and is not even in the same ball park..

moving on.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Your laws change from state to state, so your attempts to simplify them for a poor, ignorant UK dweller are embarrassingly inadequate. I learnt enough about US gun and self-defence law during the Trayvon Martin circus than you could ever teach me.

a reply to: Xcathdra
The common denominator in my story and this one is the sharp, pointy-weapon bit and the person with the option of a longer blunt weapon to defend themself with. Maybe if I'd had a gun handy too, I might have used that instead, but alas, I didn't have that luxury.

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
a reply to: Xcathdra

Your laws change from state to state, so your attempts to simplify them for a poor, ignorant UK dweller are embarrassingly inadequate. I learnt enough about US gun and self-defence law during the Trayvon Martin circus than you could ever teach me.

State Laws vary state to state - as an example this incident occurred in Texas so Texas state law applies since the aftermath could be a felony charge.

Federal Laws are consistent through out the entire US and its territories.
US Supreme Court rulings apply to all states, federal areas and commonwealths territories.

Departmental policies / guidelines / procedures are department / city based.

A reason why there are 3 levels of investigation in situations like this.


In the Trayvon Martin case Zimmerman was found not guilty under the states self defense law and NOT the Florida stand your ground law. Do I need to answer any of your questions about that incident to help you understand?

A lack of knowledge on a topic is in fact ignorance. Just as I am ignorant when it comes to British law. Its one of the MAIN reasons I will ask questions about British law when dealing with how their law enforcement acts. I don't presume to know and refuse to take the road of ignorant arrogance based on pre conceived notions and personal experiences which don't compare to try and understand their actions.

I ask questions, whether I like the answer or not.

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
a reply to: Xcathdra
The common denominator in my story and this one is the sharp, pointy-weapon bit and the person with the option of a longer blunt weapon to defend themself with. Maybe if I'd had a gun handy too, I might have used that instead, but alas, I didn't have that luxury.

In the US law enforcement is not required to engage an individual at a one on one equal level. We have the ability to raise the level of force to overcome the level of force being used against us.

Also, did you consider the mans mental illness in his actions?

I ask because he was Bipolar.. That an make a person extremely happy for no reason at all leading to a massive crash / depression for no reason at all. Do you think it was possible he was in the manic swing of that with out his meds and what we saw was suicide by cop?

Suporter? lol.. I am a Police Officer

I hope you aren't on duty at the moment? Or, are you like those two cops I passed in a patrol car yesterday, and so engrossed in your smart phones that anybody could have sneaked up on you?

originally posted by: IvanAstikov

Suporter? lol.. I am a Police Officer

I hope you aren't on duty at the moment? Or, are you like those two cops I passed in a patrol car yesterday, and so engrossed in your smart phones that anybody could have sneaked up on you?

So now you have reached the stage of general prissiness where you go for the personal attacks...

dude, grow up and stick to the topic. debate and ask questions or don't.

No I am not on duty.

Just checking. You are the one who seems to be getting all tetchy and defensive.

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
Just checking. You are the one who seems to be getting all tetchy and defensive.

Not at all.. I am trying to help you out and understand since you stated you are interested in this area. Everything thus far has shown you are only interested in the topic in so much as wanting to blame the police for everything, even when you don't fully understand how law enforcement or the law works in the US.

As I have said a few times now. You either want to learn, which includes all sides, or you don't.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I'm not trying to blame the police for everything, I'm arguing against the claim by the female behaviourist in your video that the police were/are expected to defy physics with their performances. That is far from what is being demanded by concerned citizens in both your country AND my own. WE don't want YOUR standards reaching our own shores, thank you.

a reply to: IvanAstikov

Actually having been watching this debate play out you appear to be somewhat troll like in your responses, and I'm trying to be fair in my assessment.
Not sure if you are choosing be be hard headed or if you are just unable to understand. It doesnt really matter one way or the other.There is always going to be someone who can not see the forest for the trees no matter what is said or how hard someone tries to bring clarity and in this case that person is you....Im sorry, that's just the way it is. Your snippy and trollish behavior aren't helping you either.

Nothing you have said so far really applies to the situation other than rambling on about some obscure incident involving a knife and a bat you obtained. Other than that, nothing to see here.

Time for me to go to work so enjoy your debate.

The point about me mentioning my incident was, if I, a totally untrained prole who hasn't been near a professional martial arts and self-defence instructor, can overcome such odds, there's no good excuse why 1 or more supposedly well-trained cops can't do the same and try and avoid killing their attacker, especially if you already know they have mental health problems. The mental health problem of my attacker was delusions of grandeur.

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
a reply to: Xcathdra

I'm not trying to blame the police for everything, I'm arguing against the claim by the female behaviourist in your video that the police were/are expected to defy physics with their performances. That is far from what is being demanded by concerned citizens in both your country AND my own. WE don't want YOUR standards reaching our own shores, thank you.

On the contrary.. If you followed these conversation on this site you would see people, time and again, get pissed because police didn't give a warning shot or did shoot to wound the suspect. Your comment demonstrates your lack of understanding of the how things are perceived by individuals in this country and how they rely to much on what they see on tv and assume its how it works in the real world when it does not.

As for our standards reaching your shore, its already beginning. You pretty much have a ban on firearms and yet you still have shootings. You have armed police which tells me your gun controls laws are all they are cracked up to be.

People are called criminals for a reason. they don't have a desire to follow the law, which means laws require people who comply with the law to obey it. do you really think a criminal in your country is going to go "Gee, I was going to use my run to orb a bank today but since gun are outlawed ill just use my knife".

On the flip side of the coin your opinion is your opinion when it comes to US laws and police and that's fine. With that said your "standards" have absolutely no business being applied to our law enforcement situations for the purpose of justification or not.

It would be as useful as trying to compare our Presidents duties as head of state to your Prime minsters duties as head of state. Which is to say you cant compare them because they are not comparable.

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
The point about me mentioning my incident was, if I, a totally untrained prole who hasn't been near a professional martial arts and self-defence instructor, can overcome such odds, there's no good excuse why 1 or more supposedly well-trained cops can't do the same and try and avoid killing their attacker, especially if you already know they have mental health problems. The mental health problem of my attacker was delusions of grandeur.

Because this is real life and not the movies.

Dropping the screw drivers would have peacefully ended this encounter.