Here We Go Again! Body cam footage Dallas PD shoot mentally ill man

a reply to: jheated5

Even so, if they got their hands on one, it wouldn't be acceptable for their custodians to shoot them at the first opportunity.

c'mon, it was a black guy holding a tool in his hand, the perfect signal for LEO's to shoot, and get away with it.....I think this is standard operating procedure.....all black men must realize that they need to freeze like a statue, have nothing in their hands, and don't say a word, because the police are hunting you.....also, anyone with a camera, that comes upon LEO's getting close to a black man, start recording, because there will be action!!!!

originally posted by: Domo1

"What you can tell is that he did not lunge at the guy that had the body cam, you don't see that on tape, that's one of the first things we found suspicious about the account," he added.

He obviously went at the cop without the camera.

The Harrison family's lawsuit notes that police did not attempt to use their stun guns or other less lethal weapons.

They had no duty to, I wouldn't be worried about using less lethal in that situation either.

"They didn't acknowledge him... they just acknowledged the screwdriver," David Harrison, Jason's older brother, said in a press conference. "As soon as [my mother] got out of the way, [the officers said] 'I need you to put that down, sir!' It went from zero to 100."

Bull. They didn't escalate anything, they asked him to put down the screwdriver multiple times until he lunged at the cop that was certainly close enough to be in danger.

The footage of Harrison's death was made public at a time when police nationwide have faced increased scrutiny for using deadly force, particularly during interactions with people who are mentally ill.

Which is why this clearly justifiable homicide is being talked about as if there is some doubt, to garner page views and ad revenue.

The cops go and knock on the door. The guy comes to the door with a screwdriver. His mother is saying that he's crazy. He won't put down the screwdriver after being told, then screamed at. He charges a cop that's telling him to put down the screwdriver. This is cut and dry. It's really sad, but it's cut and dry. Cops don't have the luxury of knowing everything about a person they are dealing with beforehand, and frankly if a cops life is being threatened like that I don't think the mental issues of a violent person should even matter. Again, that's sad, but I'm not going to start psychoanalyzing a guy running at me with a screwdriver because I'm very aware that it takes only seconds for the guy running at me with a screwdriver to stick the thing in my gut, or chest, or neck.

I'm all for vetting the actions of the police, and calling them out when they screw up. This is not one of those times. The media is most likely going to push this and get people arguing, even though you have VIDEO.

I really want to know what people denigrating the police would say if this situation was between someone without a badge. Cops have a right to defend themselves too.

I love that there are so many here on ATS who are just so part of the problem.

"He won't put down the screwdriver after being told, then screamed at." Oh, so he screamed at the guy with a mental health disorder? And that didn't work? Weird...guess he had to kill him...I mean, screaming is usually the proper way of handling mentally ill people...then if that doesn't work, killing is next...standard procedure, don't see what people are so bent out of shape about...

And anyone who thinks that there are only two legitimate ways for a police encounter to go, person quietly submits to anything a cop says, the moment he says it, or gunshots, is a piece of #...everyone who perpetuates this mentality, that police are some helpless pussies who have no choice but to shoot anyone who isn't perfectly docile and compliant is a piece of #...

IF YOU HAVE NO CAPABILITIES TO HANDLE CONFLICT WITHOUT SHOOTING AND KILLING THE PERSON, YOU ARE A COWARD AND DO NOT DESERVE TO BE A POLICE OFFICER!

Shooting is THE LAST RESORT...when absolutely nothing else is possible, only then should lethal force be used. Shooting is not standard conflict resolution...you do everything you can to resolve the situation without your gun going off...'well, he wasn't listening, and I tried screaming at him, and when that didn't work I had exhausted my techniques of conflict management, so I had to kill him...if screaming doesn't work, I mean, what else is there?'

Why would anyone ever call the police? They are more dangerous than the criminals. Seriously, they need to recruit some real men that aren't scared of a freaking screw driver. Idiots.

And anyone who thinks that there are only two legitimate ways for a police encounter to go, person quietly submits to anything a cop says, the moment he says it, or gunshots, is a piece of #...

I'll stand behind this all day, every day.

a reply to: Kram09

The fact is they chose to kill a man when it wasn't necessary.

Do you volunteer to be the cop who takes the first screwdriver jab while your partner gets out his tazer?
And if the tazer misses. What then?
Wrestle with the nut until your partner reloads?

originally posted by: HighFive

You quoted a newly written statue in one state, Missouri, from August 28 2014.
Hopefully more states use these high profile killings to become more transparent like Missouri,
But as the Wall Street Journal shows not all states have laws like that.

Missouri routinely revises is statutes and updates them when needed. Its a way to denote the fact the law has been reviewed and has not been changed. As I stated pretty much all states have this reporting requirement at the state DPS level.

So while individual agency reporting to the feds is voluntary, its not voluntary at the state level and as you can see state DPS is required to submit the info to the FEDS.

The law in question is older than 2014.

originally posted by: HighFive
And you avoided my questions

Why did 4 people die by officer in Germany and the UK combined last year compared to over 1000 in the US?
Better trained? People act differently in London or Berlin?

Its why I was asking for your source to see how you got the numbers. The wall street journal link you provided is 404'd.
The killedbypolice.net site only lists individuals who were killed by police yet it leaves out the important portions, which is whether those shootings were justified under the law or not.


Law Enforcement in Germany, like the US, is primarily reserved to the states by the Constitution.

Until you can provide me with valid links I have no way of answering your question about the difference in numbers of people killed. The killedbypolice.net Facebook page states the numbers reported by law enforcement are somehow wrong and suggests they aren't being reported, which I can say from experience is an out right lie.

Training will always be different and that's based on the various laws of each individual state, both in the US and Germany as well as how Federal law works in both countries.

As for better trained - again it depends on what agencies you are trying to compare.

originally posted by: HighFive
As an officer, have you received any training in de-escalating situations or dealing with the mentally ill?
You seem to be very educated on when you can use deadly force

Yes I have received extensive training in emotionally disturbed individuals, in addition to effects of drugs as well as training in, for lack of a better word, medical situational awareness.

Interpersonal communications, crisis prevention and intervention, emotionally disturbed individuals, basic familiarization with the effects of drugs (legal and illegal) on the human body. For the medical awareness that revolves around medical conditions that can mimic drug induced behavior - As a specific example drunk driving and Ketoacidosis.

We are not allowed to "diagnose" individuals as that is legally required to be done (and rightfully so) by medical professionals. It allows us to play the "what if" game with a larger list of possible questions for what we are dealing with.

I take my job an oath seriously. If I fail to maintain my training it can become a disservice to the citizens I serve and a danger to those I work with and people I have contact with.

I am a stickler for personal responsibility and accountability. If a person makes a decision they have to own it. With that said my response to that decision is partially based on not only the overall situation, but the way the person im dealing with acts about it.

I understand people make mistakes.. I have stopped people for drunk driving and instead of taking them to jail I have taken them and released them to their parents. In those instances the people took responsibility for their actions and didn't try to lie or make an excuse to get out of it. They had no criminal history and I felt the over all experience of being stopped and arrested and released to their parents was more beneficial to correcting that behavior than me taking them to jail and charging them with DWI.

I ask the "victims" I deal with what type of resolution are they looking for. It makes them a part of the process and resolution rather than feeling like a victim with no control. When appropriate I try and take the time and answer questions - from victims and suspects (except legal advice which we are prohibited by law from giving).

As for use of force - An officers use of force is something that the officer must justify and not the suspect. Technically speaking use of force occurs the moment a uniformed officer arrives in a marked patrol car and goes from there.

The legal standard established by the Supreme Court is -
"What did the officer perceive as a threat the moment force was used".

Hind sight 20/20 cannot be used when reviewing an officers actions in a use of force situation. Specifically the officer did not have access to the information that comes from a 20/20 hindsight review.

Any other questions / I miss anything you asked?

a reply to: samkent

People volunteer their time to work as pub and club security, and because they can't just start shooting everybody who causes a fuss because they are surrounded by innocent punters, they have to learn to use their limbs and their wits. Cops ought to try it now and again, and see how they fare, for much less fanfare.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Kram09

The fact is they chose to kill a man when it wasn't necessary.

Do you volunteer to be the cop who takes the first screwdriver jab while your partner gets out his tazer?
And if the tazer misses. What then?
Wrestle with the nut until your partner reloads?

c'mon...his mother casually and calmly walks by him out the front door....and somehow this is a life-threatening situation?

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
a reply to: samkent

People volunteer their time to work as pub and club security, and because they can't just start shooting everybody who causes a fuss because they are surrounded by innocent punters, they have to learn to use their limbs and their wits. Cops ought to try it now and again, and see how they fare, for much less fanfare.

A fair observation for those living and working in the UK. Completely off base for the US.

Are you wanting to learn about the US and Law Enforcement or did you say that so you can just constantly make comments about US police?

a reply to: jimmyx

The life threatening portion occurred when he refused to drop the screw driver and then started walking towards an officer.

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
a reply to: samkent

People volunteer their time to work as pub and club security, and because they can't just start shooting everybody who causes a fuss because they are surrounded by innocent punters, they have to learn to use their limbs and their wits. Cops ought to try it now and again, and see how they fare, for much less fanfare.

jesus. can you imagine these LEO's at the front door of a club....a black women pulls a lipstick out of her purse and the cops start mowing down the entire line.....or, a black guys goes for his wallet to show his ID and ends up with bullet holes all over his body

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: jimmyx

The life threatening portion occurred when he refused to drop the screw driver and then started walking towards an officer.

yeah, and if only the cop had some unknown way of walking backward a few steps before shooting. I guess it's just easier to just stand there and shoot him

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
a reply to: samkent

People volunteer their time to work as pub and club security, and because they can't just start shooting everybody who causes a fuss because they are surrounded by innocent punters, they have to learn to use their limbs and their wits. Cops ought to try it now and again, and see how they fare, for much less fanfare.

jesus. can you imagine these LEO's at the front door of a club....a black women pulls a lipstick out of her purse and the cops start mowing down the entire line.....or, a black guys goes for his wallet to show his ID and ends up with bullet holes all over his body

And the way these people think, it would be defended.

'Now, this lady was reaching into her purse...she gave no warning as to what she was getting, he had no way of knowing whether or not she had a gun there. I suppose you would have just waited until you were shot to take action? No, this was justified.'

'He asked the guy for ID, and the guy gave him attitude about it, prior to reaching in his pocket, without making it clear he was complying. Now I don't know about you, but if I'm in front of a big guy hopped up on god knows what, acting as though he is angry and has an attitude, and he reaches into his pocket...I'm not taking any chances...the shooting was justified.'

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: jimmyx

The life threatening portion occurred when he refused to drop the screw driver and then started walking towards an officer.

yeah, and if only the cop had some unknown way of walking backward a few steps before shooting. I guess it's just easier to just stand there and shoot him

Or maybe if the guy dropped the screw driver when he was asked the first several times instead of saying no and then walking towards an officer.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Hey, you might be the big man on the street while wearing your uniform, but you can't throw your weight around here, so don't even try and force the direction of my posting.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: IvanAstikov

a reply to: samkent



People volunteer their time to work as pub and club security, and because they can't just start shooting everybody who causes a fuss because they are surrounded by innocent punters, they have to learn to use their limbs and their wits. Cops ought to try it now and again, and see how they fare, for much less fanfare.

jesus. can you imagine these LEO's at the front door of a club....a black women pulls a lipstick out of her purse and the cops start mowing down the entire line.....or, a black guys goes for his wallet to show his ID and ends up with bullet holes all over his body

I know someone turned into a quadrapalegic due to just that..sitting in his car parked the popo pulled up behind went to his window and asked for ID and was shot through the neck reaching for his wallet that these stupid mofo's asked him for.


The situation in the OP is very tragic, I wish there were other alternatives for people dealing with the mentaly ill than to call the police..they are not even remotely trained to deal with it and usually start off the typical commands that a person undergoing a psychotic episode are just not going to respond to.

originally posted by: IvanAstikov
a reply to: Xcathdra

Hey, you might be the big man on the street while wearing your uniform, but you can't throw your weight around here, so don't even try and force the direction of my posting.

When you criticize something you know nothing about, I will say so.. and have said so.

Your sole purpose from your posts has been nothi9ng but attacking law enforcement. You claim you want to learn about it yet you have shown nothing to support that statement. You tell a story and leave out key facts then get pissy when asked about them, constantly changing the story you told.

So I will throw my weight around and call you out. What are you going to do about it? hide behind your keyboard and lip off?

a reply to: Xcathdra

I thought cops couldn't read minds? Perhaps the guy is walking towards him to hand the weapon over? Perhaps the mental guy thinks his screwdriver is a light sabre and is going to start wielding it like it is one? You don't automatically think "Oh #, I'd better shoot this guy just in case, rather than back up 20 ft and try and restablish meaningful contact."

a reply to: Xcathdra

I didn't tell a story, I mentioned the relevant details of an incident I was involved in. When further detail was required, I provided it. That isn't telling several different stories however many times you say it.