Question to those who say being gay is a choice?

a reply to: boymonkey74

It really amazes me how all these people can be so declaratory about things they don't know about. You and I both have worked with the type of people being discussed, have come to really know them, and appreciate their gifts and spirits.

Alas, most people have not. Yet, they feel qualified to pass judgment as to what is 'sick' and what is not.
Makes me wonder, eh.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Bone75

I didn't...
Some folks need a little help sometimes and it is up to civilized society to do so.
I think people with disabilities enrich us all.
Ask any parent of any downs child If they would change them and you can bet they wouldn't.

Nice try Bones.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: boymonkey74

It really amazes me how all these people can be so declaratory about things they don't know about. You and I both have worked with the type of people being discussed, have come to really know them, and appreciate their gifts and spirits.

Alas, most people have not. Yet, they feel qualified to pass judgment as to what is 'sick' and what is not.
Makes me wonder, eh.

...yes, and what can be said is, they seem to making a 'choice', but...are they really?

Å99

a reply to: Annee

Lol resistance is futile.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

What amazes me is also.
Would Jesus think like these people?.
Nope.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

What amazes me is also.
Would Jesus think like these people?.
Nope.

Mathew 16:23

Apparently not...

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

what can be said is, they seem to making a 'choice', but...are they really?

No. They are living their lives - playing the hand they were dealt. Just like we all do.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: Annee

Lol resistance is futile.

My mom got polio when I was 6. We belonged to a disabled club.

I grew up surrounded by adults and kids with varieties of "impairments".

Believe me, I know the difference between accepting someone for who they are and understanding impairment.

a reply to: cj6

Equality? Meaning equal right?

Equality ultimately is much deeper than simply being 'equal under law'. Even so I already linked something showing homosexuality to be illegal in 70+ countries. At least I believe it was this thread.

If that's the case then why do gay people try to publicly shame people that don't support their lifestyle?

More sweeping generalizations. Those are typically a product of intellectual laziness.

Anyways I would have to understand the nature of this 'shaming' before I knew what to argue.

And let's not pretend to be ignorant to that fact. Just look in the media, anyone who expresses their opposition to gay marriage is immediately labeled a bigot.

Considering there isn't a good argument outside of a theological one for denying them marriage, and there is supposed to be a separation from Church and State. Considering affording them equal treatment under law is constitutional. I would say those people in opposition are in opposition to our American principles. Assuming of course you are referring to the States.

That's not equality if you feel the need to force people to accept homosexuality.

What definition of force is being invoked here??

I used to support gay marriage until I saw how awful people who do not support it

Well I don't believe that.

it's most definitely a choice whether others accept it.

Obviously. People have being trying to sway the minds of the opposition into them making their own choice to 'accept' it. That hardly constitutes force.

originally posted by: Annee

My mom got polio when I was 6. We belonged to a disabled club.

I grew up surrounded by adults and kids with varieties of "impairments".

Believe me, I know the difference between accepting someone for who they are and understanding impairment.

I should've just stuck with pedophilia. Major fail on my part. Anyway, I'll get back to coding now.

a reply to: Annee
I was raised in a long-term care home facility for medically fragile children. I also grew up with kids and adults with a variety of 'impairments’. Nothing to add really… just saying I can relate

a reply to: boymonkey74

Downs people can lead a full and wonderful life and even If you could cure them the world would be a dimmer place without them.

One of my sisters had Down Syndrome and Cerebral Palsy. She was a vibrant soul. She was also happier than I have ever been, and I wouldn’t even say I am an unhappy person! She just carried a light that made others feel better simply by being in her presence.

Ask any parent of any downs child If they would change them and you can bet they wouldn’t.

We wouldn’t have wanted that. That isn’t to say we didn’t recognize limitations and wish they were not there at times. It’s just you cannot really think changing something so fundamental about a person wouldn’t necessarily mean changing who they are.

That’s why I never understood when some people say they ‘love gay people’ but don’t ‘accept their lifestyle’. What kind of love is it that doesn’t love them for who they actually are? Some kind of artificial love that undermines what real love should be.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Annee

My mom got polio when I was 6. We belonged to a disabled club.

I grew up surrounded by adults and kids with varieties of "impairments".

Believe me, I know the difference between accepting someone for who they are and understanding impairment.

I should've just stuck with pedophilia. Major fail on my part. Anyway, I'll get back to coding now.

I actually agree with you that pedophile is an orientation. And, you're right, it only becomes a crime when acted on ---- because it has a victim. I've become more and more convinced over the years that we are born who we are. Of course there are outside influences, but I don't think they change the core of who we are.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: Annee
I was raised in a long-term care home facility for medically fragile children. I also grew up with kids and adults with a variety of 'impairments’. Nothing to add really… just saying I can relate

Yep. "People are their Heart". You see past "whatever" and go straight to their soul.

Not that they were all good and loving. There were a few cranks. Let's be realistic.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I'm tired so I'll only give one example of shaming someone who doesn't support gay marriage. Orson Scott Card who wrote the book Ender's Game publicly stated that he did not support gay marriage shortly before the film version was released. He didn't say it in a spiteful or hateful way, just simply that it wasn't his belief. After that fact, a bunch of gay rights groups starting picketing and petitioning to get his film removed from theaters. When that didn't work they then protested outside of actual theaters telling people not to go watch the movie or they would be supporting a bigot who hates gay people. All of this simply because the man does not support gay marriage?? Is it necessary to barrage someone and try to ruin their name or their livelihood because they do not believe in your cause?? This is what I meant by shaming, it's just one example but you get the idea.

a reply to: cj6

stated that he did not support gay marriage

Maybe he should have kept that to himself.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: cj6

stated that he did not support gay marriage

Maybe he should have kept that to himself.

He was asked about it in an interview and he responded but your ignorance is my point exactly. Anyone who doesn't support gay marriage should keep it to themselves but if you do support it you're a damn hero and a good person. Give me a break.

You do know that Orson Scott Card was on the board of NOM. Right?

He did not just have an opinion against gay marriage.

Card has called gay marriage “the end of democracy in America” and became a board member of the National Organization for Marriage – a group that works against the legalization of same-sex marriage.

www.theguardian.com...

So it's more than just an opinion.

Gee I wonder why people are upset.

a reply to: cj6

Orson Scott Card who wrote the book Ender's Game publicly stated that he did not support gay marriage shortly before the film version was released.

Not exactly.

How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.

www.deseretnews.com...

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

Card has called gay marriage “the end of democracy in America” and became a board member of the National Organization for Marriage – a group that works against the legalization of same-sex marriage.

www.theguardian.com...

So it's more than just an opinion.

Gee I wonder why people are upset.

NOM has their cause and gay rights groups have their cause. Who's to say which side is right and which side is wrong? Everyone has the God given right to believe whatever they want. But the problem is you quickly take one side and say anyone who opposes gay marriage is wrong. There is NO wrong or right side. If youre gonna protest against someone who opposes gay marriage why not protest someone who does support it??