Leaked? ... "Exec Amnesty in 24 States That Didn’t Join Lawsuit"

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: SkipperJohn

You do not have to learn to speak Spanish to go shopping. Let the store know you will be shopping elsewhere where their employees speak the language of the land.

But if amnesty gets passed...the illegals will WANT Spanish speaking employees.

Then good luck to them because they will alienate all others to cater to just one group.

Why do you think Spanish speaking people are resented by many? It is because their group and their group alone is catered to above all others. No immigrant in the past ever wanted to change America to suit themselves and change for them. I have ancestors who spoke French and learned and used English. It was required for immigrants to know English. Why would one group be placed above all others in importance? Don't you think it is a slap in the face to everyone else?

People never made a big fuss until they saw their own Country changing and catering to one group. With English being the language of the land, official or not, it brings ALL cultures together. It does not separate this group from that group. It brings people together. If you think that is a bad thing then that is your choice.

originally posted by: Night Star

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: SkipperJohn

You do not have to learn to speak Spanish to go shopping. Let the store know you will be shopping elsewhere where their employees speak the language of the land.

But if amnesty gets passed...the illegals will WANT Spanish speaking employees.

Then good luck to them because they will alienate all others to cater to just one group.

Why do you think Spanish speaking people are resented by many? It is because their group and their group alone is catered to above all others. No immigrant in the past ever wanted to change America to suit themselves and change for them. I have ancestors who spoke French and learned and used English. It was required for immigrants to know English. Why would one group be placed above all others in importance? Don't you think it is a slap in the face to everyone else?

People never made a big fuss until they saw their own Country changing and catering to one group. With English being the language of the land, official or not, it brings ALL cultures together. It does not separate this group from that group. It brings people together. If you think that is a bad thing then that is your choice.

Anyone wishing to move to another country owes it to that country to become part of it...not to change it. If you don't like the place you are going, don't go. The only reasons to go if you don't like it is to either steal from it, or to change it. If you wish to change it, you are an enemy of the people who love the country and should be turned away. So which is it? Are the illegals an enemy trying to destroy our America by changing it...or are they simply thieves here to steal from us? Or think about it this way...this is an invasion that instead of using bombs and troops, is using our open borders to invade and take over our country. Is it not a war just because they are using different means to get to the same end...invade and take over?

My guess...both. But why should we care. That is the same thing our "president" wants to do. Destroy the America we love and live. Of course he invites other enemies to join him in his campaign. This isn't brain surgery...it isn't complicated. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar and that thing quacking is a duck. You don't have to read too much into it. Our "president" wants to "fundamentally change" our country, allow illegals to change our country and bypasses the Constitution of our country. The writings on the wall...read it.

originally posted by: SkipperJohn
a reply to: Night Star

I tell you what. I went into walmart and truth is, I could not find an employee who spoke English. I guess I am going to have to learn Spanish just to go freaking shopping.

Well consider the following:

The United States does not have a national official language; nevertheless, English (specifically American English) is the primary language used for legislation, regulations, executive orders, treaties, federal court rulings, and all other official pronouncements; although there are laws requiring documents such as ballots to be printed in multiple languages when there are large numbers of non-English speakers in an area.

Wikipedia

I think at some point the language issue is going to have to be dealt with. But, we don't have any federal law on the books making people speak English.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Aazadan

And if they vote to make Spanish the official language, isn't that forcing their language and culture on to me?

Since I was raised in an American home with English as the language?

It's Arizona that made English an official language. It's more than them actually. www.us-english.org...

The people of those area's clearly wanted English to be official. I see no problem with that, but those laws tend to refer to government business. What people here seem to be saying is that the state needs to step in and say private business needs to be conducted in a specific language and that's where I disagree. Let the market decide what language people use.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Somewhat true somewhat false. If we put up road blocks to them learning English then you would be correct. If we try to make it easy you would not be. If someone refuses to go to school because they don't sit at the cool kids table, then letting them not go will never lead to them sitting there. Sometimes people need a loving push.

Well, when you attack them for being illegal in the first place, you have to expect they remain in the shadows. That means not going to ESL classes and that leads to the creation of not just an underclass but of ethnic groups that don't assimilate and don't use the language of the majority.

Well, when you attack them for being illegal in the first place, you have to expect they remain in the shadows.

How is it "attacking" someone when you point out the fact that they live every single moment of the day continuing to commit a crime without remorse or care? They made their bed...they can lay in it. Just another case of problem vs symptom. The problem is that they are here illegally...the symptom is everything after that.

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: SkipperJohn

You do not have to learn to speak Spanish to go shopping. Let the store know you will be shopping elsewhere where their employees speak the language of the land.

c'mon....you actually believe what skipperjohn said?....what Walmart in America would do that?...notice he didn't say where this Walmart was....maybe it's in Mexico....ask him for proof of this by telling you where this store is located by address and city, don't just believe what he says, do a little research....remember, the automatic ATS response all of us need to adhere to is..."extraordinary claims, require extraordinary proof"

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
How is it "attacking" someone when you point out the fact that they live every single moment of the day continuing to commit a crime without remorse or care? They made their bed...they can lay in it. Just another case of problem vs symptom. The problem is that they are here illegally...the symptom is everything after that.

Because you don't get it both ways. If you're going to keep them illegal and threaten to deport them, you have to expect that they're going to stick to themselves, furthermore you have to expect that business communities will pop up that cater to them in areas with lots of illegals.

If you let it go, you can actually start the process of them assimilating, part of which involves them using the same language as everyone else.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
How is it "attacking" someone when you point out the fact that they live every single moment of the day continuing to commit a crime without remorse or care? They made their bed...they can lay in it. Just another case of problem vs symptom. The problem is that they are here illegally...the symptom is everything after that.

Because you don't get it both ways. If you're going to keep them illegal and threaten to deport them, you have to expect that they're going to stick to themselves, furthermore you have to expect that business communities will pop up that cater to them in areas with lots of illegals.

If you let it go, you can actually start the process of them assimilating, part of which involves them using the same language as everyone else.

If we let it go, we continue to reward law breakers. We continue to place them above those coming through the proper channels. We don't get to pick and choose which laws we want to follow and neither should illegals.

originally posted by: Night Star
If we let it go, we continue to reward law breakers. We continue to place them above those coming through the proper channels. We don't get to pick and choose which laws we want to follow and neither should illegals.

We do, but most of us are breaking some law or another these days, and we still reap the benefits of society besides that. Prosecuting the crime does more harm to society than letting it slide.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Night Star
If we let it go, we continue to reward law breakers. We continue to place them above those coming through the proper channels. We don't get to pick and choose which laws we want to follow and neither should illegals.

We do, but most of us are breaking some law or another these days, and we still reap the benefits of society besides that. Prosecuting the crime does more harm to society than letting it slide.

There are thousands of citizens who have lost their very lives because of an illegal. I have an online friend who lost his only son. Illegals come here without a health or background check. I'm sure the relatives and friends of those who have lost their lives would certainly not want to let it slide.

Millions of citizens have lost job opportunities because an illegal is hired instead. These citizens need to feed their families. These citizens wouldn't want it to slide.

There are waiting list for years for citizens to get the cheap housing they so desperately need, yet illegals have cheap housing. These people would not want it to slide.

There are immigrants who have paid their dues coming through the proper channels and are still waiting to come here. They do not want it to just slide.

There are now places of employment that require you to speak a foreign language (Spanish) in order to get hired for a job in their own damned Country. More lost job opportunities for our citizens.

I think society has more harm from illegals being here. If you care at all for your fellow Countryman you would easily understand this.

originally posted by: Night Star
Flag and star for you. I just read the link. ALL States should say no to illegals and amnesty of any kind.

I agree, we should also close all borders & end all imports/exports.

Ah, but to dream...

a reply to: Night Star

Lots to address here, so lets start with the people who lost their lives. Many people have lost their lives that makes it no less tragic but the largest motivator of crime is socioeconomic status. People who are at the bottom and have little to no upward mobility are the most likely to commit violent crimes. Being illegal puts someone in precisely that situation. The best thing we can do to reduce these crimes is to remove the barriers that keep a person in a low socioeconomic status. Part of that involves removing the penalty for being illegal. Is that fair to the people who have put in the work and are waiting to come here legally? No, it's not but what creates greater harm over time?

So lets look at the employment conditions. If you're working in the US legally you need to be paid minimum wage, but if you're working illegally you have no legal protections. A legal citizen cannot compete with someone who can work for less than minimum wage. Whether that's prison labor that's farmed out to companies, manufacturing work that's outsourced, or blue collar work being performed by an illegal. Part of this can be addressed by extending the same economic protections to all but another part of the fix requires changing the supply/demand equation. Those who employ illegals can get away with paying so little because it is typically for low skill positions where there is a high supply of labor. The fix for that is job training, give people skills so that they aren't all competing for low skill positions. This increases the wages of those on the bottom by reducing supply while creating a more skilled work force.

Next comes those who are trying to immigrate to the US legally. To put it mildly the immigration policy in the US is absurd. Did you know that the informants and translators we used in Iraq and Afghanistan would often apply to immigrate to the US because they could no longer safely live in their communities after their assistance to us? Did you also know that the vast majority of these were denied by our immigration department? Our current immigration policy is more or less to only take the best and brightest which sounds nice but also means we are missing out on the potential of a whole bunch of people. Elitism usually doesn't produce good results long term. Basically, we need to start letting a lot more people move here but the economic reality of such a thing right now is that we don't have enough jobs to go around as it is. We can fix that with certain economic policies but that starts getting into other topics.

Last, as far as businesses wanting an employee to speak Spanish goes I don't see how that's a problem. If it's a success commercially it will continue and if it's not it will stop. Getting people to assimilate is the best way to put an end to it. I would actually prefer if people do speak English but the way to make that happen isn't federal decrees and draconian laws. Neither of those practices are all that effective.

The tl;dr is this. It doesn't matter what people are doing on an individual level, what matters is why they're doing it on a macro level. That is how you address issues.

a reply to: Aazadan

Many people have lost their lives that makes it no less tragic but the largest motivator of crime is socioeconomic status. People who are at the bottom and have little to no upward mobility are the most likely to commit violent crimes.

We have tons of poor people who do not resort to crimes of any kind. Being poor is no excuse for an illegal drunken driver to plow down a child or anyone else.

Those who employ illegals can get away with paying so little because it is typically for low skill positions where there is a high supply of labor. The fix for that is job training, give people skills so that they aren't all competing for low skill positions. This increases the wages of those on the bottom by reducing supply while creating a more skilled work force.

We always have unemployed citizens and there is training available for better jobs, yet there are not enough jobs to go around. Whatever jobs that are available should go to a citizen and not an illegal.

Last, as far as businesses wanting an employee to speak Spanish goes I don't see how that's a problem.

How can you not see that it is unfair for a citizen to be forced to speak a foreign language in order to get hired for employment in their own Country, when that position has nothing to do with international business dealings or being a translator? It is a lost job opportunity for citizens. It is neither fair nor right. I even asked a company in an e-mail why they required Spanish and they told me it was because most of their employees spoke it. So because most of his employees were too disrespectful to learn the language of the land, our citizens should cater to and suffer because of it? I told that employer that if most of his employees spoke Spanish and it's mostly illegals that spoke it, it sent a red flag up for me. I never heard from them again. LOL

Whatever happened to "give us your poor ...."

originally posted by: Flesh699
Whatever happened to "give us your poor ...."

We have millions of poor people all across the USA. We have hungry and homeless children in many areas. We have far too many poor people who are poor because they have fallen through the cracks and make like a dollar too much to get any help from anywhere. We have tent cities, we have millions of unemployed people. We have people deciding between life saving medicines or food because they can't afford both. If we can't take care of our own, how we can care for anyone else? Or do you believe a poor foreign person should come first before those who are citizens of this Country?

Don't you think that if we could help the world's poor people we would? The sad fact is that we cannot. It is impossible.

I'm sure that people here would feed their own family first.

Just an FYI to all the America haters out there. Despite what you may hear, we do not "hate" immigrants.

We love those who come here, and take the time and effort to go through the proper processes to become a US citizen. When you do that you are an American in our eyes and hearts. What we do not like is people coming here illegally, skirting the system, not paying the same taxes we citizens must, and leaching off of our social benefits when we have actual citizens who are ineligible for those same programs.

So please, understand the truth. We are a country founded on immigration. We 100% support immigration. Just follow the rules, and show us you WANT to be one of us, and not that you are here to just take our money, jobs and benefits while keeping your allegiances to your home country.

a reply to: FarleyWayne

For some reason the latest presidents find very easy to governmen by executive decisions and circumvent the constitution this days too easy.

We have checks and balances but let face it, everybody in Washington is taking advantage, that means both parties benefit from unconstitutional practices.

Let see what those states that didn't join the law sue against Obama executive decision will do when presented with forced amnesty, believe it or not executive decisions are no laws, they can be challenged anytime by the states.

a reply to: jimmyx

No buddy.. it's here in the go old us of a.southern state. If you are going to show up to confirm then pm me and I will be glad to tell you... if your just talking sh!it then please move along...

Immigration - No problem so long as its legal.

Some things to note. When you move to the US and become a US citizen the expectation is to bring the best of your culture and integrate it into the US culture. The goal is to make the "melting pot" better than before you arrived.

There is nothing wrong with maintaining links back to the home country. There are issues when you want to bring that culture, and only that culture, to the US and demand it be accepted by everyone. It does not work that way and has never worked that way and will never work that way.

If you want to become a US citizen or come to the US to work then abide by the law. Amnesty is nothing more than rewarding people who broke the law while slapping every person who has come here legally in the face.

Bring the best of your culture and integrate it.

a reply to: Xcathdra

That is the problem, no only they get rewarded for braking the law but also we are forced to cater to their needs, culture and language.

And to think I am Hispanic, the irony, I am against amnesty and a free ride to my tax payer dollars.