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Why focusing on the "now" and not believing in free-will is destructive

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posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 07:34 PM
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originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Tangerine

Like I said:

"
I already answered this: they're not necessarily conflicting which is why I specifically said those who believe in the Now AND lack the belief in free-will. 
"

As for the definitions, the person was claiming that the Now (which is "current reality") is the Light of God revealed and that there is no free-will because we are only observers of that Light called "now" which is already good and perfect. By "observers" the person was saying we are consciousness and even our bodies are just the Light of God, the Now appearingperfectly without free-will since "individuals" do bot exist.


Yes, I got what that person said. You obviously disagree but you do not state your disagreement in an understandable fashion. Instead, you start preaching about God. I assume you are referring to the Abrahamic God so let me ask you this: If God exists and is all-powerful and all-knowing and created everything (if that's what you believe), how is free-will possible? Allow me to explain. An all-knowing creator would know what his creation is going to do before he creates them. An all-powerful creator would have the power to create them to do exactly that which he wants them to do and nothing else. How, then, is free-will possible?

I am asking you to explain the logic in holding two contradictory beliefs (an all-knowing, all-powerful creator and free-will). Please do not respond by preaching and saying God is all good and Light.
edit on 25-2-2015 by Tangerine because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 07:49 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

My disagreements are addressed in the original post.

God is not "The Now" because the now includes things that are not inspired of God. Believing that God is good AND evil is a conspiracy to not encourage positive compassionate behavior.

How does free-will exist according to Jesus Christ?

Jesus said good actions are important, men do not gather grapes from thorns. Your action (seed) must represent your intention (desired fruit/effect).

God is Love. We can take actions of compassion and love our neighbours as ourselves or not. I am against the belief that God is all including evil because that does not encourage compassionate action but instead approves of unnecessary destructive and painful behavior.
edit on 25-2-2015 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 08:33 PM
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originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Tangerine

My disagreements are addressed in the original post.

God is not "The Now" because the now includes things that are not inspired of God. Believing that God is good AND evil is a conspiracy to not encourage positive compassionate behavior.

How does free-will exist according to Jesus Christ?

Jesus said good actions are important, men do not gather grapes from thorns. Your action (seed) must represent your intention (desired fruit/effect).

God is Love. We can take actions of compassion and love our neighbours as ourselves or not. I am against the belief that God is all including evil because that does not encourage compassionate action but instead approves of unnecessary destructive and painful behavior.


You are not addressing my question. I pointed out how, given the religious claim that God is all-powerful and all-knowing and created everything, free-will is not possible. Instead of responding to that, you jumped to talking about good and evil, Jesus and love.

Please address the specific question I asked: explain the logic in holding two contradictory beliefs (an all-knowing, all-powerful creator and free-will).



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 10:05 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

God knows all things that happens but the future is our choice. God can give predictions as warnings though if we don't change our ways to live through Love ( "for God is Love") but we can taking loving action (which is action inspired by God) to change the future.

God is all-knowing as in aware of all things as they were and are now.
God is all-powerful as in stronger than anything else

but we must choose rather or not to live through Love/Compassion or not.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 11:34 PM
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originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Tangerine

God knows all things that happens but the future is our choice. God can give predictions as warnings though if we don't change our ways to live through Love ( "for God is Love") but we can taking loving action (which is action inspired by God) to change the future.

God is all-knowing as in aware of all things as they were and are now.
God is all-powerful as in stronger than anything else

but we must choose rather or not to live through Love/Compassion or not.


OK, so God can't know the future. OK, so God isn't really all-powerful; he's just stronger than any of us but can't prevent a damn thing from happening. OK, so there is no conflict between your belief system (which is not that shared by many Christians, by the way) and free-will. Thanks for the explanation.



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 12:27 AM
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a reply to: arpgme
Do you consider yourself perfect in every way?
Realizing that you are not the doer brings great compassion because it is realized that no one is to blame. This is freedom.



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 02:30 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

If I said to myself "I'm not responsible for my actions" , I would be a less loving person than I am today. It's because I knew I wasn't perfect that I was inspired to Learn from life. Without that realization I may have become less caring less generous without even noticing.

I still know the peace of forgiveness and how it lets go of stress but saying "no one is to blame" does not allow people to realize their mistakes to grow and learn to think about whether their actions create peace or just suffering for themselves or others.

If a person is causing suffering to themselves and others the compassionate thing to do would be to let them know what action (or lack of action) is causing it so they can be aware and increase their peace.



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: arpgme




What others believe matters because we share this world together and believing that The Creator of All approves of murderous deceptive or a theiving behavior or worse that God is also a liar murder and theif is a dangerous belief to have that doesn't inspire loving compassionate actions


What are you saying here?

That God doesn't allow free will and that free will is the devils doing?

Do you think God controls everything or that there is free will?

Do you think the devil is opposite of God?


Who believes or thinks the sick things about God that you are constantly bringing up, each time its something different in a negative light. You place much thought in speculating what others believe for simply saying God is the Alpha and Omega.

You are saying all these god is a rapist and whatnot things and what you are saying is created in your mind by yourself as I haven't seen anyone say they believe what you say they do, whoever they are.


What you just said now "The creator of all" contradicts what you said earlier




If God is all then there is imperfection in God which means it isn't God at all. Please do not be deceived by the beast light and darkness instead of Perfect Light of God with no darkness.


Why are you confusing and contradicting yourself so much in this thread?




How can a Holy God be unholy?


Well let me quote a portion of what you just said about God




The Creator of All


Is God not the creator of all in your opinion, if so why use that description of God?




If you put dirt in water is it still clean?


Just because its called dirt doesn't mean its dirty, to answer your question though, depending on what type of dirt, it could be clean mud that could be beneficial to one or dirty mud that could harm one, being beneficial or harming to one has to do with how and where the mud is applied.




If we want a peaceful world then we should be encouraging peaceful behavior rather than saying "It's ok, God is all even a rapist" .


So why say things as such, you have quoted that and are the only person I have ever seen say such a thing, again, so why such things about God?




How is this any different than those who pray for forgiveness without caring to actually change their actions.


Why don't you answer that? It means nothing to me without further clarification or some examples, who are those that pray for forgiveness without caring to actually change their actions?

You have a rather negative speculative outlook on others beliefs based on whats in your head( whoever the others are, you never clarify but assume readers can read your mind and know who or what you are thinking of) , you keep going in circles so why not stop and try walking a straight line to change?

Are you talking about yourself when you say those that do 'this' and believe 'that'?


However the one bit I do agree with but for different reasons is this




What others believe matters because we share this world together


Yes it matters but I leave the judging in what others believe and do to God or the one that does the deed or has the thought.

I only judge my own thoughts and deeds and should have a few fingers less or even no hands and no tongue if I was to actually carry out the judgments I placed upon myself for my own actions and thoughts in my life so far.

I will condemn actions of so called evil but cannot judge as I do not know what has lead to such most of the time, I will agree its bad but bad things happen just as good things happen. we see and hear of less good and more bad because of the difference in power on a metaphysical level the two opposites have, good deed and thoughts over power the bad so that is why there is more perceived bad, to keep things in balance.

However I know what I have said, done and thought and when influenced by what many like to call evil I have my past doings/thoughts to keep me from repeating the same mistakes that greatly affected my being and able to let things go or change my perception so as to not create or spread the negativity that could come out of taking the wrong steps when such an important personal test is at hand. (temptation)



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: arpgme




If a person is causing suffering to themselves and others the compassionate thing to do would be to let them know what action (or lack of action) is causing it so they can be aware and increase their peace.


Are you asking for compassion or saying this is what you do?


Is the person causing suffering ignorant or do they know how their actions or lack of actions are doing harm?

Telling person what action to take when they are ignorant that their actions are doing harm would do more harm,

Wouldn't you need to show the person how and who their actions harm before telling what path to take to correct things so to speak?



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: InhaleExhale

The OP seems to be confused and is trying to find answers to the contradictions in his theology. That's a good thing I think, but he does seem to make a lot of assumptions about others beliefs which isn't so good.

Like you said, if God is God of all then it goes to reason that he is God of both good and bad, not just good as the OP seems to think.

He says non-duality is destructive yet he believes in a non-dual God (only good). There seems to be some glaring holes in his theology, he needs to work those things out, he's going the right way by asking questions but I'm not so sure he doesn't already have his own answers to said questions to begin with.



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 03:39 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: InhaleExhale

The OP seems to be confused and is trying to find answers to the contradictions in his theology. That's a good thing I think, but he does seem to make a lot of assumptions about others beliefs which isn't so good.

Like you said, if God is God of all then it goes to reason that he is God of both good and bad, not just good as the OP seems to think.

He says non-duality is destructive yet he believes in a non-dual God (only good). There seems to be some glaring holes in his theology, he needs to work those things out, he's going the right way by asking questions but I'm not so sure he doesn't already have his own answers to said questions to begin with.


I don't see the questions being asked. I see answers, often glaringly contradictory answers, being stated repeatedly. It's one thing to ask oneself questions and try out answers. It's quite another for someone so confused to slam down answers for others. I find it to be extremely common for believers to chant a mantra of answers as though repeating them will convince him/herself that what they're saying is true. In this case, the person is chanting mantras of conflicting "answers". If only this person would realize that these "answers" conflict and experience the epiphany that they are not the right answers or experience the even bigger epiphany that there may be no answers. In some ways, these glaringly conflicting "answers" suggest that the poster is on the edge of awareness and need only stop and contemplate.



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I made a long post but decided to edit it to explain simpler.


Duality is the truth. God is the good side of duality. Either you are in God's Spirit or not. Either you live through loving compassion or not. It is your choice to choose compassion or not with each action you take and although no one is perfect we can improve and be closer and closer to the Highest Energy/Compassion until we are One with it. Until we choose to do this, we are in chaos moving between Light and Darkness, Compassion and destructiveness.


edit on 26-2-2015 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-2-2015 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 12:59 AM
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a reply to: arpgme

But your God is non-dual in nature because he is only one side of the spectrum. Non-duality means only one, your god is only one and not the other. Your God is non-dual yet you believe duality is the truth? Does that mean your god is not the truth?

God is both good and bad, big and small, round and square, inner and outer, up and down, left and right, etc. because, as you yourself say, he is God of all things.



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 03:54 AM
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originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I made a long post but decided to edit it to explain simpler.


Duality is the truth. God is the good side of duality. Either you are in God's Spirit or not. Either you live through loving compassion or not. It is your choice to choose compassion or not with each action you take and although no one is perfect we can improve and be closer and closer to the Highest Energy/Compassion until we are One with it. Until we choose to do this, we are in chaos moving between Light and Darkness, Compassion and destructiveness.



Duality is a crock.



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 04:35 AM
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a reply to: arpgme

No, duality is not truth, it is a confused mind that lives in duality.
I can understand where you come from, in the bible, the question is posed, "are you on the right path?".
Wide is the gate and path that leads to death, narrow is the gate and path which leads to life.
This in my opinion is a reference to the tabernacle of which the narrow gate is hidden.
This implies a duality, but in reality we have created an illusion and we are living the illusion, experiencing it as if it is real.
And sure enough, our whole existence is based on that illusion, the material world we created, we seek everything in this world, including wisdom and salvation.
In short, our life is based on sand, the material illusion, even the sacred texts are a part of that illusion.
The illusion is not an opposite, therefore the notion of duality is just a part of the illusion.
I won't make myself popular by writing this, but god is also a part of that illusion.
The bible and quran are mere solidified music derived from even older sources of knowledge.
If you really allow yourself to see with an open mind, you will see that every believer simply follows what he is being taught.
What we have been taught through education and what we have learned through cultural traditions and beliefs is the known, the known is the past, therefore we are the past.
The past is the illusion, the question is "can there be freedom from the known, which is the past".
Surely, the past gives us a direction, follow the right path.
With multiple paths to follow, multiple truths and spiritual movements, but also divisions within those movements, we stand divided and out of that divided state violence is born.
While so many beliefs speak of compassion and love, the reality is that it breeds violence, we have seen this in the middle ages and we see it happening now.
But also those who are deemed atheist because they are not religious merely follow a doctrine, be successful, work hard in order to become someone, have status, be rich and powerful, be it individual, as a group or national, there is competition and there are private interests at play, if diplomacy fails, war.



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 06:54 AM
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The big question is also, why are we born with brains/minds that need to be trained in order to accept the present? If it is the truth then why are we all "malfunctioning"?

If you accept that there is nothing wrong with you, then a perceived problem of being unable to focus entirely on the present moment is not really a problem at all, it is just the way you are.



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 07:46 AM
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originally posted by: arpgme
1) If there is only "now", one reality, no individuals then there is no responsibility. The greedy who hurt others have no responsibility since individuality is just "illusion".


You are confusing the ultimate recognition of Reality with people who do not recognize Reality. In your example relative to greedy people - such people do not recognize and fully live the principle of prior unity or oneness with the Divine. If they did, the inherent morality of love that Reality is and grants, would be their disposition - not the egoic search to fulfill themselves at all costs.

So please do not confuse what is Truth with those that may even speak about it but have not truly recognized it to the degree that their life is about transcending their separate egoic tendencies into a life surrendered to Divine Reality.



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:10 AM
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originally posted by: SystemResistor
The big question is also, why are we born with brains/minds that need to be trained in order to accept the present?

What is mind?
The fact that there are 'concepts' created (mind) is what blinds one from seeing that there is only what is happening. Yes. concepts happen but when do they happen? When can a concept arise and be known?
Can you see or hear the past? Can you see or hear the future? Seeing and hearing happen now.
An idea that the past happened, happens when? The idea that there is a future happens when? When do ideas (concepts) happen?

It is only words (concepts) that speak of another time..........when are words spoken and when are they heard?
All that appears has to appear in the one as the one.






edit on 27-2-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:13 AM
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To eat from the tree of life is direct experience of life.
To eat from the tree of knowledge is to listen and believe the stories the mind tells.

Direct experience is now. The mind tells stories about other times and places. No story can be told about now and that is why it seems so illusive to the mind.

edit on 27-2-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Again, you can choose God (Love) or the absence of it. That is the duality. Not everyone chooses God/Love some choose non-loving lives so they are the other side of duality against Love/Compassion/God.

God created all Life. That Life can choose to stay in Love (God) or it's lack. That's the duality.




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