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Why focusing on the "now" and not believing in free-will is destructive

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posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: arpgme


1) If there is only "now", one reality, no individuals then there is no responsibility. The greedy who hurt others have no responsibility since individuality is just "illusion".


Actions have such far reaching consequences that their full extent will never be known. If you take a gun and shoot someone with it, you don't get off because "the future doesn't exist". Individuality is different than the notion of "now is all there is".

Even if you don't have a sense of self, the fact that you exist does not change. In the end, you can be assured of nothing BUT your own existence.

Are you suggesting that there's more than one reality? Proof of that would be fantastic and would require me to rethink my entire point of view.


2) No free-will means its ok to lie, cheat, and kill and to even promote such behavior since they can just say they had no free-will. What better excuse for a serial-killer?


The problem with criticizing a point of view from the outside is that you're only operating on a stereotype. I could, for the exact same reason, say that anyone who believes there is an afterlife is gullible and stupid. If you really want to criticize a philosophy, you have to adapt it for yourself and note problems as they arise.


3) If God is Now and Reality then God is a liar, deceiver, and selfish ego since reality contains within it such unkind behavior. With a god like that who needs to believe in the devil?


I've never even heard of that idea, so I can't counter it at all. One of the craziest ones I've ever heard. I will add that I don't think anyone needs to believe in the devil.


What better religion for the rulers to teach in order to get approval for their unkind behavior? Since we are all One why not get microchips and cameras on every street corner? No individual then no privacy or need to hide.


Well if the world around you is just trying to deceive you, I don't imagine a plan for the secret conspiracy that doesn't exist would even need to explain their motives because they would simply need to explain that what the person was seeing is just another one of those lies.




posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 05:48 AM
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originally posted by: zackli
Even if you don't have a sense of self, the fact that you exist does not change. In the end, you can be assured of nothing BUT your own existence.

And what is one's existence after all is said and done? Consciousness or awareness - that is the reality that never changes, never ages, is always the case. However, we tend to identify with our body-mind and so think that is what we actually are altogether.

The body-mind is the ego-I or the individuated self that appears, lives, and dies. It will be held accountable for its actions regardless of what is ultimately true relative to unconditional consciousness - because there are laws that govern all conditional appearances, as you are also indicating.

We tend to confuse our sense of our true nature (awareness or consciousness) with what is arising conditionally (the body-mind and all forms) - and cannot reconcile this via the mind because the mind is part of the same conditionality that cannot grasp the unconditional reality (consciousness or awareness)!

Thank you for your post.
edit on 2/28/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 05:56 AM
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originally posted by: bb23108


We tend to confuse our sense of our true nature (awareness or consciousness) with what is arising conditionally (the body-mind and all forms) - and cannot reconcile this via the mind because the mind is part of the same conditionality that cannot grasp the unconditional reality (consciousness or awareness)!


Exactly.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 08:36 AM
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originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: bb23108


We tend to confuse our sense of our true nature (awareness or consciousness) with what is arising conditionally (the body-mind and all forms) - and cannot reconcile this via the mind because the mind is part of the same conditionality that cannot grasp the unconditional reality (consciousness or awareness)!


Exactly.

Heheh, and we are also NOT the seeing of what we are NOT.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 09:33 AM
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Who can choose what thought will appear next? If you cannot know what the next thought will be, is there someone with freewill?
As Paul Hedderman says in this video - you cannot even sh1t when you want to and you cannot know how much you will sh1t when you do.
Sh1t happens and then there is a claiming.
A thought will arise and then the I claims to have done it - there is no I that does. There is just a seeing of a thought.


edit on 28-2-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 02:34 AM
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originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Who can choose what thought will appear next? If you cannot know what the next thought will be, is there someone with freewill?



lol are you serious? I have yet to read something so absurd. My apologies if this insults you... but you just wrote those sentences didn't you and chose what was coming next yes??? or was that automatic writing? If it was then please excuse my apology.



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 02:42 AM
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a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness
Do you know what your next thought will be? How can you know what thought will arise before you are conscious of it?



edit on 1-3-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 02:57 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes be cause I place my mind moment to moment where ever I want it to be... or have you never read and understood my previous posts about placing the mind making it into a tool and not chasing it like its a wild dog that's not going to lead you anywhere useful?

Not watching a video see I chose what came next my reply, not whatever that is because I have other obligations. That have also chosen. Watching a video is not on my list no disrespect for you... but if you are reiterating what he says then it's apparent both of you are lost.



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 05:47 AM
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a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness
The assumption is that you are the thinker or that you are what the thoughts are speaking about.
But if you watch carefully you will see it is obvious that you cannot stop the next thought from arising or even know what it will be.
You are just seeing thoughts and sensations arise - you are not the doer.



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 06:01 AM
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The thought system does not value now because it can only use now by making it into a there and then which produces a sense of self.
Now is arising unconditionally as this - this is non dual - not two.
Now split into two - there and then is duality.
Who lives in there and then?
Is life there and then?

Do you think you are doing life?
Do you think life is happening to you?
Or is life just happening?
edit on 1-3-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 07:48 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

Are you possessed? If you aren't speaking then who is? All the echoes of delusion and nonsense living in side you I guess that have inhabited your consciousness you accept as yours. The mind is like a hotel you have guests coming in and guests going out, the amount of time they stay is based on your generosity, each one carries the baggage of bias, hate, and discrimination... leading to hate and discrimination because they are extremes. But remember they are just the guest and you are the host.

I am this I am that and blah blah blah, no you're not. It's what you have chosen as an ideology for living... if all those various ideologies are you then you can understand why people seem conflicted and full of hate and bias and ignorance. They draw a line in the dirt no middle ground. if you are this? then you can't be that, if you are that then you cant be this... you're neither one in reality.

Thanks for sharing your assumption, but since it's yours? I don't know it from a hole in the ground, my hotel has kicked out all of the guests, and it has burned to the ground, and all I am doing is sitting my ass on some hot coals in the midst of the ashes. Since there is no where else for guests to reside in my abode? I entertain them when they come by... hey sorry hotel burned down all I have is me and I can't accommodate all of you in that bus called itisnowagain. so if it's still waggin when I get back? Perhaps the golden fish is further from the hookless hook than first appeared.



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: bb23108


And what is one's existence after all is said and done?


Your body is technically the only thing that exists, "after all is said and done".

That you apply significance to your thoughts is nothing short of a leap of faith; a reaction to a fleeting microsecond of awareness of your environment is nothing to be proud of.

If you take that thought and run with it, you realize that a lot of things you thought true aren't true. Why should the way you treat a person one time say anything at all about you as a person? It doesn't. You've got a long time to live, and there are going to be times you treat people in contradictory ways. All you can do is say that "at one time I was X, and now I'm Y." That is much less useful because it says nothing about how you are now.

What, then, is left? Judging someone by the logic they use to arrive at their conclusions? That can be manipulated. When someone says "I wouldn't want to lie to someone, I would feel bad afterward." what are they really saying? The only reason they don't want to lie to someone is because they live in a self-imposed cage.

Does the fact that I don't like cages really mean I'm a "terrible" person?



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 06:37 PM
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God does not exist in a way people could possibly fathom, speaking of that which one could not possibly understand is or addressing it by the wrong name is blasphemy.

Please do not mistake me for being anything like religious as I am not, in reality I would be happy to see religion wiped from the face of this planet as it causes way more damage than it does good.

We don't know enough about anything, or care enough about anything enough to declare if it is destructive or not, let alone really understand exactly what destructive is or isn't as there are always beneficiaries to every event and in the end destruction is creation.

Everything is Osmotic Homie Fries, Homis....

I delight in the fact I do not understand as trying to understand gives me something to keep me busy.

Out.


edit on 1-3-2015 by MyHappyDogShiner because: cuz I'm #ing stupid



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 07:15 PM
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originally posted by: zackli
Your body is technically the only thing that exists, "after all is said and done".

That you apply significance to your thoughts is nothing short of a leap of faith; a reaction to a fleeting microsecond of awareness of your environment is nothing to be proud of.

If you take that thought and run with it, you realize that a lot of things you thought true aren't true. Why should the way you treat a person one time say anything at all about you as a person? It doesn't.

Your response is making the wrongful assumption that my original statement is about thinking. What I said was this:

"And what is one's existence after all is said and done? Consciousness or awareness - that is the reality that never changes, never ages, is always the case."

Awareness has nothing to do with thoughts or thinking. So I am having trouble responding to the rest of your post because of your misunderstanding of mine.

When I spoke about awareness I am talking about one's very being, the only reality we can recognize as never changing. Yes the body exists, but it comes and goes. Reality or being itself does not appear and then disappear.

Is your fundamental being or awareness any different from now and when you were 10 years old? You had less experience then, but fundamentally was your actual feeling of being any different? Being or awareness does not age, only the body-mind does.



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

Then why bother looking into a mirror when you refuse to flip the switch in the darkness?



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: bb23108

A question is begging for an answer, you appear 9 months... when the water breaks, will the rainbow light flow... who knows? Who knows?



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 12:03 PM
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originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: bb23108

A question is begging for an answer, you appear 9 months... when the water breaks, will the rainbow light flow... who knows? Who knows?

In reality there is no question.



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: bb23108

Then stop trying to answer from samsara



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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The argument is kind of twisting it self into a knot.

Serial Killers kill, because they believe they have free will to do so, even though they'll say they had no control in court.

Now with my free will, I'd wanna kick them in the balls, then the head so they know what feels like when someone takes their freedom away or their idea of freedom from the newly damaged brain cells cause a lack of awareness.

I think the answer is compelled or possessed to do so, since some evil spirit came over me and told me to do it, or Ill go to hell.

Hows that?
edit on 6-3-2015 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: Specimen

The storm is within... calm it if you ever wish to raise a sword against the unspeakable.




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