Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

I'm not ignoring any of the others who questioned or quoted (CirqueDeTruth, and KellyPrettyBear) but this one just jumped out at me and I wanted to type before I lost track...

originally posted by: Specimen
You say a state of change is the probable cause behind most paranormal events or occurrences, like moving, de-constructing and rebuilding.

What happens if these events go hand to hand with religion or spiritualists as they usually are, with lets say an Atheist who found God or what not, and becomes reborn in a sense. Now, would this sudden change in perception or belief be a heavy agent of change or cause and effect with the paranormal where something goes off in the brain and cause the appearance of UFO's.

Yes. Absolutely. A complete change in ideology goes further than a change in mind, but a change in lifestyle. I can see routines being changed, friends being changed, new places and people coming and going.

Now this goes a level or two deeper and really is a whole other discussion - but it ties in here too. So off we go.

You mention the non-UFO nature of what you saw, but let's use the disc UFO as an example moving forward. Now ask this: what made the sighting of a spinning disc in the sky equate to a craft from another planet with 'aliens' inside? That's a huge jump from a spinning disc in the sky.

In my opinion, in addition to the importance of looking at surrounding factors of paranormal events, we also need to start looking at what the phenomena and what it shows us in vastly different ways.

What did the ghost convey in it's appearance? It's communication? It's gestures?

What did the 'alien' babble in cryptic fashion at the experiencer? Perhaps it wasn't so cryptic if looked at in symbolic terms rather than literal ones.

How many different 'craft' have been seen? Does anyone find it interesting that the 'craft' configurations seem as varied as those who report them? The ETH can't account. The ETH has nearly been written out of it's own story by the phenomena itself.

Don't get me started. Anyway...

The disc symbolically means 'wholeness', 'oneness' or 'completeness'. It may represent the collective consciousness of humanity - all the way down to being a personal symbolic notion, manifested by your feeling (with the liminality) of a connection to a higher power.

I'm not at all surprised by your sighting, nor the circumstances surrounding it. I'd like to know more, but I understand the intensely personal nature.

But could such things also be what I call a "symbolic conveyance"?

Hang with me here, this gets really complex really quick - and a post on ATS is likely not the best place to try and explain this. I'm not even sure I can type this out effectively.

Taking a page from Dr. Jeffrey Kripal, language is critical here. Language as a means or mechanic of manifestation. Through the focus of intent and the creative process in making the internal, external (liminal - between real and imagined, remember?) - in some cases the creative process, effects reality. We get reports of manifestations that don't fit...and these often go unpopularized, when people say "the being I saw wasn't an 'alien' really...it felt like it was more of an idea than a...being."

But so much of the phenomena seems autonomous, and independent. Well, here's where it gets a little weird. Maybe there wasn't 'aliens' in the 'craft', until we made it a 'craft' for 'aliens'. Now, the idea that manifested 'the other' has gained some sort of autonomous freedom after breaking free of the ego that created it. It now uses the symbolic conveyance as craft - but it's more symbolic language than craft. We interpret it, and it obliges.

"As ye believe, so shall it be"

I'm not a religious man. But it fits.

Are we being blinded by our own perceptions, desires, and narrative - from what this phenomena might be trying to show us? Could it be as frustrated in trying to dialogue with us, as we are to understand it at all?

Imagine trying to have a conversation with someone, and your words are changed by what the other person thinks you're going to say.

The experience, the manifestations, can all be as varied as we are - and seem to be tailored for the individual through a cultural filter of some sort. That some people have positive paranormal experiences, and others have terrifying ones - should not be surprising: it's how you want, or perceive, it to be.

Want demons? Got it. Angels? No problem. Aliens? Yup, out the wahzoo.

I've had a saying for a while now: It starts in your head and ends up on the floor. I think, the paranormal experience is in part, a creative one. Remember what Dr. Jeffrey Kripal said: "The paranormal is a story waking up to it's author". It stands to reason that if these experiences equate to symbol and sign, narrative and story, one would expect creative persons - writers, artists, musicians, etc., to have exceptional access to these perceptions and experiences. And if you read the results of Project Core, it seems to indicate preliminary, that they do indeed. These are people steeped in anti-structure to do what they do (I'm one of them, whether I like it or not). They are in an almost constant liminal state in the creative process.

But don't misunderstand me. I believe these phenomena are external as near as anything can be 'external'. (Sooner or later you realize there's no inside or outside just perceptions of such. Human perception - that's yet another thread.)

So Specimen, long way around (sorry)...I'm not surprised that you saw an apparition in the sky. In the state of change you were in, in the liminal area between 'heaven' and earth (as seen in the binary opposition graphic I posted earlier), and that it shook your foundations. That's what seems to be happening here - the phenomena suggests things, tests us, challenges us - if we are only open to listening, rather than fixating on how many rivets are holding the disc together or what color were the lights on it. There is far more going on here, and part of me thinks that it's the abstract thought exercises that come from all this...that is the real point. Is this whole thing a manifestation of an evolutionary force? Who knows. All I know is this is far more complex than mainstream UFOLogy will ever tell you. Mainstream UFOlogy is a joke when it comes to tackling these issues. They just ignore them.

I should do an exclusive podcast just for this thread on www.paranormalwaypoint.com - it would probably be easier than trying to wordsmith this all out.

Jeff

originally posted by: 1ofthe9
If you want, I got the rural test site.

Oh I got one too. But it won't be a requirement.

Yes. Absolutely. A complete change in ideology goes further than a change in mind, but a change in lifestyle. I can see routines being changed, friends being changed, new places and people coming and going.

As KPB was curious, here's the rub. I'd be right in the middle of this if you guys are right. Hence my willingness to kick the tires so to speak. At this point we're already in a story no?

jritzmann, I don't suppose you've read any of my threads per chance? I've also talked about Hansen and Kripal at various times. Good stuff. A roundtable on ATS radio would be interesting if we could put it together.

Yes. Absolutely. A complete change in ideology goes further than a change in mind, but a change in lifestyle. I can see routines being changed, friends being changed, new places and people coming and going.

a reply to: jritzmann

You would think I'd have had all kinds of strangeness going on 15 years ago when my life went through the biggest change ever. Divorce, moving out of state, remarrying a few years later. And now a second batch of kids. Plus engineering school in the mix and a change of careers. Funny, this has been the quietest and most uneventful period of my life. I guess just going through change doesn't guarantee strangeness. Also, I think I've gotten better at keeping it 'normal'.

originally posted by: wtbengineer

Yes. Absolutely. A complete change in ideology goes further than a change in mind, but a change in lifestyle. I can see routines being changed, friends being changed, new places and people coming and going.

a reply to: jritzmann

You would think I'd have had all kinds of strangeness going on 15 years ago when my life went through the biggest change ever. Divorce, moving out of state, remarrying a few years later. And now a second batch of kids. Plus engineering school in the mix and a change of careers. Funny, this has been the quietest and most uneventful period of my life. I guess just going through change doesn't guarantee strangeness. Also, I think I've gotten better at keeping it 'normal'.

Perhaps you didn't perceive those changes as upsetting your emotional equilibrium -- or did you?

a reply to: Tangerine

Yeah, I was so upset at one point that I went to the psych ward for help and they kept me overnight until I could prove to them that I wasn't going to hurt myself. It was all over the change and how traumatic it was that I was living in a new place away from my family. I missed my kids so much and that was the main cause of the severe depression that I was experiencing. They prescribed some drugs that didn't help at all, just made me feel kind of whacked out. I wrecked my truck at that time. I blame it on the drugs they had me on.

Anyway, it was one of the most awful desperate times of my life but no weirdness was happening to me. I didn't see any UFOs or hear any more of the footsteps or other manifestations that terrorized me earlier in life. I really don't know why. Now my life is much more stable. I've been with my wife for 15 years now and we have two little ones. Plus I have 4 grandchildren. Still no strangeness.

bybyots

> a reply to: RedCairo
How can these two statements coexist?

| "REALITY IS NOT A DEMOCRACY."
| ~my 'Narrator

| That people's psychology is often correlated with their experiences
| doesn't make the experiences imagined.

The problem is in fact that: people's individual psychology becomes correlated to these "experiences".

I don't see any conflict in them. Maybe I'm not sure what you mean.

The first quote was told me in full audio in the shower one day, circa '94. I was thinking about Seth's stuff (Jane Roberts), and some odd experiences I'd had, and pondering my overwhelming sense of another powerful earthquake impending (not long after the Northridge quake). What to do if I want a certain probable future, but everybody else around me wants something different? And a voice said clearly: "Reality is not a democracy. It is not a matter of being outvoted. Your reality belongs to you and you only. You will experience what you choose." (This was followed, not very long later, by actually switching out of the timeline of a major earthquake. That had enough psychological impact on me to make me respect the advice that came before. Hence the tagline.)

The second is my comment based on the stuff I was saying in the previous couple of posts. That we are energetic constructs, swimming in a soup of energy and other energetic constructs, and we tend to pull energy toward us, into our reality. The energy's real, the reality-experience is real, no different than anything else in that regard. But, the individual clearly has a correlating role in their experience since it was their 'attention, intention, expectation' -- and often their 'opening up a space for it' in their belief systems -- underlying that it ever happened at all.

I see these as really amounting to the same thing, not contradictory. The crux of it really is that our influence upon our personal reality is something happening *before* its manifestation. How we interpret it after is a whole separate thing. But the manifestation is literal and legitimate, whether our influence is overt or subtle.

RC

originally posted by: wtbengineer
a reply to: Tangerine

Yeah, I was so upset at one point that I went to the psych ward for help and they kept me overnight until I could prove to them that I wasn't going to hurt myself. It was all over the change and how traumatic it was that I was living in a new place away from my family. I missed my kids so much and that was the main cause of the severe depression that I was experiencing. They prescribed some drugs that didn't help at all, just made me feel kind of whacked out. I wrecked my truck at that time. I blame it on the drugs they had me on.

Anyway, it was one of the most awful desperate times of my life but no weirdness was happening to me. I didn't see any UFOs or hear any more of the footsteps or other manifestations that terrorized me earlier in life. I really don't know why. Now my life is much more stable. I've been with my wife for 15 years now and we have two little ones. Plus I have 4 grandchildren. Still no strangeness.

Has there been a time when you experienced high strangeness and how was that time different for you personally? Perhaps your physical location? Other people around you? Just tossing out some factors to consider.

If I feel physically threatened, I don't tend to get much anomalous experience. It's like all my energy focuses on here-now for my survival. Although "novelty and change" are highly correlated with such experiences for me, and sometimes physical life changes can be part of that, there is definitely a limit or certain areas where my overall person closes off everything in order to make it possible for me to deal with what I've already got (esp. if heavy emotional stuff is present).

Feeling some marginal degree of safety or sameness, plus having an 'opening' for novelty/change, seems to be the formula for me. Kick up the change to something physically or emotionally threatening and everything else is shut down while I triage the here and now.

a reply to: Tangerine

Yes, I experienced high strangeness in my boyhood home from a very young age up to around 21 years old. To my knowledge, I am the only one living there who experienced anything. I don't have the feeling that it was the house itself but me that was the factor. I had many terrifying experiences as a young boy in which I felt that I was being trapped inside my bedroom and the power would go out. I couldn't get out of the room and the lights wouldn't come on. I wandered around and around in the dark with a feeling of a terrible presence. I never had any conscious knowledge of how these episodes ended. I just woke up in bed like normal.

Also there were footsteps that came up the stairs into my room and stopped by my bed. They never walked away, only to my bed. Sometimes I would feel the mattress depress or a sensation like a small animal walking across the bed, but nothing there that I could see. Later, as a teenager nothing happened to me from around age 14 to 17 and then I started having all kinds of poltergeist type phenomena with things moving on their own and flying off walls etc. And all the time the footsteps were there in my room overhead walking around and around as I sat downstairs watching TV.

It was at around 17 that I had the most profound experience of my life while dabbling in things that I really didn't have any understanding of. I had been playing guitar in a rock band for some time and was on the way to making something out of it and I got wrapped up in all that kind of fringe occult knowledge crap that seems to surround it and I was also into some mind expanding substances at the time. I felt that I was on a journey toward some ultimate truth that I could find inside myself through these things and I think I just made myself open to something that had been surrounding me since childhood and maybe couldn't find a real doorway in. Whether this something was part of my psyche like some here believe or whether it was external to me I won't judge, but the way it ripped my mind apart and almost caused my complete destruction made it feel like it was outside of me.

From that time on my perception of the world was changed and I could not really relate to others in any meaningful way. I sought only to draw close to people in a context of sexual relationships because I couldn't feel the connectedness between us that I had before. I lost the ability to allow anyone access to the real me. This resulted in many, many affairs and ultimately a failed marriage. I struggled hard to figure out how to act to fit in with other people and eventually got the act down so that others couldn't tell that I was fundamentally different from them. I gave up on ever hoping to solve the root problem, I just wanted to hide it.

When I moved out of my childhood home and got married, which I did because my girlfriend at the time was pregnant, I quit playing music and gave up that dream and started raising kids. I didn't really have anything anomalous happed to me for around another 15 years. It was just after both my parents died.

My mother died of lung cancer at a very young age and my father died 2 years later from complications after surgery. My family was moving into my parents home, after buying it from my siblings, and on one trip over to the house while we were in this transition phase we saw a thing just sitting in the sky. It looked like a solid metallic structure comprising two or three spheres and cylinders connecting them. I saw what looked like 3 spheres while my young son saw 2. My impression was that the structure was turned so that 2 of them were almost aligned. Anyway, that doesn't matter we all saw it. We then raced to get out of the car and have a good look at it but it had just disappeared.

There has only been a couple other things happen that were more curiosities than anything else. Sometime in the last 10 years I was working on some plumbing in this old house I'm living in now and I heard my wife's voice calling out 'honey, I'm home'. So I came up the stairs to see no one there. I looked out in the driveway and her car wasn't there. I felt a little strange because I heard it loud and clear, but it didn't bother me. She came in about 15 minutes later and thought it was funny. Then a couple years ago I felt someone come up behind me and shove my chair as I sat at the computer.

Actually, there has been a lot of little things, things disappearing and then they are back in the same spot you remember them being in and my wife says she has seen a man walking around out of the corner of her eye. Lots of little stuff that doesn't really concern me. I'm really sorry for this long rambling answer, but I am a little drunk right now, that's one of the methods I find quiets this stuff down. So to answer your question directly, I guess the time I spent at my home growing up was the most traumatic. Nothing has affected me on any level nearly as close as the things that happened there so maybe it did have something to do with the location.

a reply to: wtbengineer

Thank you for being so open about your experiences. I, too, have experienced poltergeist-type activity and it's damn scary. Could these dreams of being trapped in the dark and unable to find your way out have represented your psychological state in the context of your life at that time?

I noticed that you didn't attribute your childhood experiences to where you were living but I also noticed that you had the UFO sightings when you were driving back to move into that house. That suggests to me (I'm not trying to suggest what it means to you) that the house or location, itself, might have had something to do with the "manifestations" or, perhaps, negative experiences with people in that home might have had something to do with it.

You said you dabbled in fringe occult knowledge. Did that involve actual attempts to summon entities and do you feel that you actually did so?

I'm not sure if I buy the traditional explanation for the cause of poltergeist manifestations. What does your gut tell you caused them when you were a child and continues to cause them now?

a reply to: jritzmann

Thats thing about the sighting I had, it was pretty much my very first paranormal experience. To this day its probably ether dramatic or traumatically, and most strangest one. Weird thing was, it felt like it was somewhat played out in a way, and I'll give some detail to what it was like, but I kind of tend to feel very aloof about it.

Long story short, was playing street hockey with a whole bunch of kids on my street in front of my house, while looking at cloud or two, with the sun in between, something strange happened with my attention as if I had felt instantly drawn to looking. Where another cloud formation pops out from behind the cloud to my left, taking shape, or form of something with some great detail, and the shape acted like it moved with a will of its own. I point at it I guess mid way through the momentary event, yelling "What the hells that?", I can only remember one kid who I think was my next door neighbor at the time, saying in the back ground, "Woah".

Thing is, I can't remember if I resumed the game or not, where I think I may have just blocked out what had happened in a few short moments. Then when I recalled it a few short years in high school, I was a bit paranoid about what had gone on that day, and was looking at an empty blue sky, being anxious.

But so much of the phenomena seems autonomous, and independent. Well, here's where it gets a little weird. Maybe there wasn't 'aliens' in the 'craft', until we made it a 'craft' for 'aliens'. Now, the idea that manifested 'the other' has gained some sort of autonomous freedom after breaking free of the ego that created it. It now uses the symbolic conveyance as craft - but it's more symbolic language than craft. We interpret it, and it obliges.

That's another thing, as I said earlier in this post, it was just incredibly strange to just perceive or even think about what it really was. It was very, how did Jacque Vallee put it in one interview, "Amorphous" in it nature, where it seems gassy or liquid, but solid at the same time. It had left quite an impression on me for years down the road, and never had an occurrence like that again or from any one else for that matter.

As for UFO's, I've seen more then my fair share, and the strange thing is, it often has to do with your point about change, or anti structure. At one point of my life, coming out of high school, I realized adulthood was rather boring and redundant, on weekly basis with no change or surprise at all. Then one thing lead to another, documentaries and folk lore, then got into the new age for a little, then blam...UFO.

Now after that point, I had been very excited, but I hardly could contain myself on the inside, where I fell into a New Age trap sort, or maybe just hype really. It had lead me to the belief of the third eye mythology, since it was all hype too, and fell for it. It lead to some chemical imbalances, where I was having a auditoral lucid psychosis for a long while, and I couldn't sleep, had been gaining degenerative motor skills, like idle hand, and was bobbing my head around with no intent too. And it landed me a trip to the psych ward for a week, where I slept for a day or two straight.

Also the amount of pot didn't help ether, and life felt like it fell to an all time low too.

Then after several months, I kind of went more proper, and was getting into more how should we say( I know ,heard it all before), disciplined form of meditation lets say Zen, and got more beneficial result. It was so beneficial that some points of meditating through a span of 6 months, that I felt more rejuvenated each time.

Continued...

a reply to: Specimen

I mention this, since I had felt like I went through a major transition through my life, where I felt changed in a way from being stable, to unstable, then re-stablizing, as well as trying to stay stabilized.

Also when I was going through the degenerating phase of what I experienced with the third eye, nothing paranormal actually really happen with all the unorganized thoughts and delusions I had, where I didn't see any UFO's for a time. I recall being paranoid of plane engines ringing through my ears thinking they were UFO's in disguise. Then after many months of mental improvement through forms of accepting and questioning myself, reality, and getting into meditation, where blam... Another UFO but much more prominent in its presentation but incredibly subtle...Very subtle!

Even many years down the road, it hasn't physically changed much for me, and I feel like I go through these phases of degeneration which feel like bad habits I had gained from the hype. Then I go through a generating phase, where I'd feel much more better, health wise anyways, and be clear or empty in terms of thought. Then things would be little more stranger after that, where my ego would go up or down while being in the betweens where it would feel like an inner grudge match.

So Specimen, long way around (sorry)...I'm not surprised that you saw an apparition in the sky. In the state of change you were in, in the liminal area between 'heaven' and earth (as seen in the binary opposition graphic I posted earlier), and that it shook your foundations. That's what seems to be happening here - the phenomena suggests things, tests us, challenges us - if we are only open to listening, rather than fixating on how many rivets are holding the disc together or what color were the lights on it. There is far more going on here, and part of me thinks that it's the abstract thought exercises that come from all this...that is the real point. Is this whole thing a manifestation of an evolutionary force? Who knows. All I know is this is far more complex than mainstream UFOLogy will ever tell you. Mainstream UFOlogy is a joke when it comes to tackling these issues. They just ignore them.

Its ok, I actually got more of a straight forward example from you without the localized fear, which has given me some added texture about the paranormal and what criteria of circumstances that may need to be met for this to have happened. Also philosophy, myth, folklore, literature seem to be tied to it, but is this just because the energy made by thought, or content relating to thought processes.

"I think, therefore I am" , if thats the case, then what am "I"
"There a more mystery's that are between Earth and Heaven, then are dream't of in your philosophy"
Masturbation for the mind...lmao.

Appreciate it, and thanks. Didn't mean to write so much content attempting to relate about what you trying to explain, but I get the jist of it.

P.S: Didn't get into pot till years after the aerial, amorphous object I tried to describe.

Poltergeist stuff is disconcerting. For me it came in the context of other anomalous stuff, some of which fits the ufo category, at least the second time I encountered it. My closest (physically) friend where I live now, though, has had PG stuff going on off and on in cycles for years and it's pretty darn extreme, affects her whole family, but they have no 'other' types of experiences (well I mean, it's all 'paranormal' but not alien at all).

The first PG stuff I ever had, I think anyway, was when I was about 18. There was something living in my room, which I became aware of because, well, it was there, and eventually it was just apparent. My room was literally about 12 degrees colder than the rest of the house and people would walk in and comment on how drastic it was. I had a lot of weird 'dreamish' stuff happen when I was just at the falling-asleep or waking-up point, which a church I attended called spiritual warfare. I wasn't sure I believed in that as a label, they had a tendency to see everything that way, I suspected. I was in college then.

One night a nonreligious and strongly skeptical friend who didn't believe in any of this stuff was staying over, and she woke me up roughly at about 1am and said, "There is something in this room and it isn't good. Get your ass up, I'm not staying here and you're going home with me." It was so out of the norm for her to respond that way, it made me take it more seriously finally.

Eventually I had an emotional experience related to all this, prayed intensely about it, and then told 'them and it' whoever that was that they would get out of my life entirely or else something, I didn't know what but something drastic. At the time, I simply felt that I had the authority to mandate this.

And it did -- it was gone, and my room was a normal temp, the next day. I always wondered if I'd banished the room or exorcised myself, but either way, it was gone, and I didn't have any more PG activity until nearly a decade later.

RC

The second time I ran into PG activity was during a 3-year cycle of high strangeness as some people call it, which for me followed a kundalini experience and included just about every imaginable kind of weirdness. More like a period of utter energy chaos, than just something that happened once.

A lot was horribly frustrating. Like I'd have dinner, set the plate with fork next to the sink, go to the bathroom -- and literally trip over the plate, with fork, on the hallway floor on the way. I mean it was totally impossible to have gotten there in that .75 seconds or silently, and this kind of thing happened all the time.

There was a bizarre tendency of objects to just 'flash around' my house. The remote control could be in my hand, I could set it down, look away for half a second, reach back for it and it was gone. And this was during things with timing clues like a TV show where I think I would know if I'd "blinked out" some period of time for example.

But the weirder stuff is all the crap that didn't belong there. Objects, cleaning implements, jewelry, you name it, stuff I did not own, that would simply turn up, and I'd be thinking, 'Ash-blonde hair in this brush? WTF??' and then of course 30 seconds later I'd be thinking, "I had to have imagined that," and I'd go back to get it and check but it was entirely gone.

I actually got to the point where psychologically it almost broke me. I would reach for something that was in place literally 3 seconds before, like a spice while I was cooking, and it wouldn't be there, and I would go immediately into denial: I didn't need it anyway. It got to the point where this was happening tons of times a day. I could not set down any small object like a hairbrush without this going on.

I bought more stuff. I had enough hairbrushes for probably 20 people in my house, multiple in every room, to "deal with" the fact that once I had seen (let alone touched) one, if I turned my head away and then back again it would be gone. It might show up later. Maybe. Maybe somewhere else. Or a brush I'd never seen before with someone else's hair in it would. It was literally some kind of chaos that seemed to mostly affect "small objects."

I had one morning that was very traumatizing, when a shoe I absolutely had to have in order to go to work (much of my stuff was in storage not at my apartment) could not be found, though I had taken them both off the night before and fell asleep in my recliner, but only one was present the next morning. I eventually found it -- in the hall closet. I was bawling in frustration by then because of being late to work. I think that upset me more than any had so far.

The day I finally "accepted" this and so more directly dealt with it, I was getting ready for work. (I was a corporate officer, so you have to imagine it: I had weird entity and other experiences almost nightly, and this weird crap constantly, yet I opened the building very early in the morning and was Ms. Responsible to the Board of Directors -- it was a difficult dichotomy to keep up, my 'crazy personal life' and my 'no-nonsense business life'.)

I got out a long slip, and a dress, and I laid them out neatly on my bed (my closet was kind of cluttered and stuff was in the way and I didn't have anything else to hang them on), which I did every morning. I took a shower, and I went to the fridge and got a soda (maybe I can blame Dr. Pepper for all this) for a little caffeine. As I turned away from the fridge, I was opening the soda and closing the fridge door at the same time, and I nearly dropped it. My dress and slip were lying on the kitchen table, precisely as I had laid them out on the bed, except there was stuff all over the table (books and bills and little stuff), and it was on top of all that.

Always before, no matter how stupid the detail, some little part of my brain had always told me, "Maybe you imagined it." In denial. But that, I knew utterly I'd set in ONE place when I got in the shower, I had definitely not gotten out of the shower and set it another place I never would anyway, and now it had moved. There was even a couple weird details like the way the dress was laying with a sleeve and a little turn-up of the corner of the side edge of the slip, that I had casually noticed on the bed, that were also in place on the table, as if it were done intentionally, or as if it had been flash-moved precisely as-is somehow. (Not like someone picking it up and carrying it, in other words.)

At that point I decided that either reality was something other than I thought, or maybe I had brain cancer and was going to die. I mean all the weird stuff I'd had going on I'd kind of been a little in denial of, like how-weird-moving-on-now, but for some reason that was the last straw for me and I was forced to accept it. I wrote in my journals that it felt emotionally like "I need to get a handle on this!" but the more I tried to wrap my brain around it, the more it just didn't work because it wasn't logical or linear, and the more I felt like I was in genuine danger of "breaking" myself. As if "myself" was dependent on a logical, linear reality. And if I pushed the "paying attention to this" too hard, my mind would somehow break in two, because the primary mind wasn't able to deal with it, period. Up till then, 'denial' had been my only way of dealing with it.

I made a point to sit down and talk out loud, also in my head, to "assumed entities doing the messing-with-me-via-objects" and said, "Apparently you'd like to communicate with me. I will sit down and meditate and offer you that chance, but first I have to go to work. We'll do that tonight."

That night when I got home from work I had less of the PG activity than I'd had in eons. I did a meditation, I got dragged into some surreal interworld stuff I couldn't remember well on coming out of it, except that I felt that there HAD been some kind of energy, which I had personified (don't know if it began that way or not, the energy vs. entity thing is always a question, but 'personalization' is the heart of interworld meditations) and I felt that on some level, that other-energy was happier now, like I had given it recognition needed.

From then on, when PG stuff would start acting up in my life, I generally tried to ignore it, but when it would start getting extreme, I would talk out loud and in my mind and say that ok, I notice you now, and I would set a place and time that I planned to "communicate" with them, and I'd do this in a positive way, like we were friends. And the PG stuff would drop off, from radically to entirely, and I would do the meditation -- always just weird and confusing -- and it was ok for a while more.

I don't know if this means my PG was self-generated; or entities, or energies, or some impersonal energy but which I had the ability to 'organize via my intent.' No idea. But like several other experiences from that timeframe -- just over 20 years ago -- it has not returned.

The only other time I've run into PG stuff was indirectly via my friend C. I often see her every day, I know her family -- our kids are almost shared, same age -- so we are closer than many people of actual family. The funny thing is that she is like the one person who is totally oblivious to everything. Her husband and both her kids can hear and feel the same weird stuff and even be affected by it physically but she never gets any of it. So much of the weirdest stuff she doesn't experience except by proxy. She gradually learned to accept it, because it was there, what else can you do, but she had no interest in it and just wishes it would go away. It has actually reduced greatly as the kids have aged. I have always assumed it related to them in some fashion.

When her kids were about ten or so, the PG stuff started with them and her husband. At first she thought they were making it up because it was mostly about sleep and small objects. The remote control to the TV would constantly be missing and she would help them look and find it on a fan blade -- this hangs on the ceiling. The kids couldn't reach it at that age, and had nothing in the room tall enough to let them either. This kept happening and they would all get angry about it. And sleep was messed up, her husband would wake up next to her and complain that someone was literally poking him hard with a finger, like a man given the strength and size, or literally shaking his shoulder or knocking loudly on the headboard. The kids had their own version of this, different stuff, her daughter and son often heard people -- the same people -- saying certain things, sometimes in another language. They were all complaining and sleep deprived, but to her it was just weird and she didn't know what to make of it so she just kind of shrugged it off because what can you do but look for the damn remote again.

It started branching out a bit then. Once she got the remote loc down and would simply go get it off the fan when it vanished, it sometimes wasn't there anymore. After a great deal of searching they would find it in the oven, or in the butter dish in the door of the fridge, stuff like that. Once they found it in her mother's stove across town. C. had been there, actually baking, a few days before, but not since she'd been home with the remote. Her husband got so pissed about this he finally duct-taped the bloody remote to the arm of a chair. About sixty seconds later, their cat yowled and came running from the kitchen -- covered in mayonnaise. Seriously. Nobody was in the kitchen. She managed to get the cat wiped down with a towel and pretended that this was only a little bit odd. Weird stuff like that especially with the cats kept happening, and then they started stealing her husband's bottles of alcohol -- like a beer -- and they would literally vanish almost from under his hand and he would get up, angry, to look for it, and the bottle would be found upside down in the dirt in the back yard. This happened even when he was alone. Then they untaped the remote. It showed up on the ceiling fan again but at least the other stuff mostly stopped.

Some things kept up. The kids used to collect those gold dollars. They disappeared. As if I had any idea of course, I told them they needed to keep important things within a few inches of their body like in a pack or pocket, to keep it in their dense energy field, which would have more protection. It just seemed logical to me. They tried this, and it worked; things wouldn't disappear from inside the pack until after it was no longer touching their body. Whether this is because they believed me, or there was something to my idea, I'm not sure.

Her daughter started getting a lot of visuals of ghosts and a lot of electronic interference. C. or a kid could be sitting at her computer typing (they only had one) and emails would show up in the 'sent' folder that were often foul-mouthed nasty angry violent threatening stuff sent to other people. Often though they showed up in 'drafts' and she would see the change, go into the folder and delete it fast to keep it from being sent. Her daughter and son started hearing voices on the phone, and they'd hear the same one, passing the phone back and forth. This started happening especially on a celfon that no longer worked, had no minutes and had been dropped in water at one point, it was a brick. Except when it would ring and the voice would be something weird. People they knew would also sometimes get calls that weren't from them.

Her daughter was on the phone with my next door neighbor's girl, her mom is a nurse. A voice came on after C's daughter hung up, before the neighbor girl had hung up, and in a sort of scared wierd fascination she listened. There had been a dial tone from the hang up but then the voice was there, no dial tone. She handed the phone to her mom, who was able to listen to it for several minutes. It was a voice talking about something that C's kids, both of them, said was often talked about when they were trying to sleep, a certain specific voice and perspective. Some man who had abused his daughter and then at one point set the house on fire and killed all of them. Why they would get this story who knows. There isn't really any record of that location and they're in a very rural area (their whole town has like 350 people) so chances are it was empty and then farmland for eons. But the voice was very male and very weird and only mostly coherent and in this case it was heard by someone completely uninvolved in all of it (my neighbor the nurse). She was so freaked out about it she wasn't even sure she wanted her kid to be involved with that family anymore (she is not religious at all so it wasn't for those reasons). I thought it was good for C. that happened because she never sees/hears any of it, so someone uninvolved finally being exposed to it gave it a little bit of outer-reality for her.

Meanwhile, C. was here regularly helping with house cleaning, and little stuff including my silverware kept disappearing. Bigger stuff too but it's a one-off thing -- once it's gone, it's gone, so there's not much replication except in the overall of things -- but the silverware was a repeat, I mean I would go in and I'd have like one fork to my name when I'd had a dozen previously. I was sure it wasn't her; she washes even plastic stuff I wish she wouldn't. I went to a thrift store and bought a bunch more silverware (better stuff than the cheap walmart singles and I didn't want to buy a whole expensive set). It began to disappear as well. This could happen between the time C. left and I made some food, and the next day when I made some more, I was alone. This has actually been going on for probably 8 years now but it is much slower now than it used to be. I consider it some degree of 'attachment' energy she's carrying. I told her someday, some person like the dad in that movie Poltergeist is going to have all my silverware fall from the ceiling and go, "What the F-- is this?!"

continued

a reply to: RedCairo

They've had some more worrisome stuff happen. Once her daughter was sleeping about six feet from her on the couch and woke up with a shout of "Ouch!" and half of her eyebrow was completely gone, like shaved or plucked, and it really hurt. Previously, her long hair had been wrapped up around a hook above her bed that had a little picture, hurting her badly as she sat up. Before that, a big dresser was pushed over on her -- a drawer opened and stopped it just off the ground with her under, saving her. She had several "invasive" things like that. This stuff sent C. into a rage because it threatened her kid and she didn't know what to do about it.

C. took up burning sage in every bit of the house and officially saying prayers to various archangels, and this is funny because she is the least religious person I know -- she says that as far as she is concerned, maybe if ghosts are real angels are too, and she doesn't experience either one of them, but if praying and burning white sage will make the BS reduce in her house she's willing to try it out. She believes that it does actually help, that such experiences "reduce" after she does this -- usually, for awhile. She should own stock in an incense company as much of the stuff as she's used at this point. She's like Marilyn on the Munsters -- the totally normal one in a family of people who hear and see and feel 'the otherworld' regularly.

It's gotten a lot more calm over the years... perhaps because her kids have aged, they are 18 and 17 now.

RC

a reply to: Kandinsky

The control system is currently having fun with photos of dresses on the internet...

a reply to: Astyanax

...is there no end to it's mischief?!

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Kandinsky

The control system is currently having fun with photos of dresses on the internet...

So true!