Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
Observing characteristics of the contagion
effect is one thing. But observing novel
virus infection vectors is easier said
than done.

Input?

Not really. It involves asking a whole different set of questions that paranormal 'investigators' have not ever thought to ask as they're too obsessed with the presented facade (i.e. - what did the ghost look like, how many windows on the UFO, etc). It's not that those aspects aren't important, but they're clearly not the whole story. But in the defense of said enthusiasts, they've been fed outlier sanitized datasets for decades, so they don't even recognize the phenomena much more than the stories they're told.

Jeff

originally posted by: jritzmann

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
Observing characteristics of the contagion
effect is one thing. But observing novel
virus infection vectors is easier said
than done.

Input?

Right....exactly what I said using
fewer words. No need to disagree
with someone agreeing with you.

Kev

Not really. It involves asking a whole different set of questions that paranormal 'investigators' have not ever thought to ask as they're too obsessed with the presented facade (i.e. - what did the ghost look like, how many windows on the UFO, etc). It's not that those aspects aren't important, but they're clearly not the whole story. But in the defense of said enthusiasts, they've been fed outlier sanitized datasets for decades, so they don't even recognize the phenomena much more than the stories they're told.

Jeff

a reply to: jritzmann

He never stated whether the radio was
turned on, had batteries, was plugged in,
or even operable under any conditions.

Didn't provide any useful info at all really.

But he did man up to 'petceived high
strangeness' at least.

TY

originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
Or perhaps lets say a mass UFO sighting such as the one at the Italian football stadium in the 70's. How does the information provided above help make sense of those experiences?

Sorry I missed this part.

First thing to ask here is was the UFO sighting the phenomena? This is where the UFO thing gets murky for a lot of people. I think you have to know that not all sightings are this phenomena. Now, if you can get at surrounding information? Or witness anomalies? Then you might have the phenomena identifier.

But lets say the Italian football stadium sighting: was the town in a state of change? Was there renovations going on? Was the community undergoing a trauma of any kind? All these kinds of questions, I doubt got asked. Now after the fact you may never get to know. Might if ya dig a little.

This is where the real problem is to me: we have no idea what these phenomena represent. Are ghosts really the dead? Is ESP what it's portrayed to be? The UFO? Who knows what that is. This is why I'm sketchy on any deconstruction - I'm intrigued by the notion, but I think we need to test the triggers of the manifestation first, in a mass community way, and compare that data very carefully.

I wrote a couple of things that might help you get the idea of what I mean by defining the different phenomena.

The Paranormal Escape Hatch – Part I

The Paranormal Escape Hatch – Part 2: Hoaxes and Delusion

I'll be curious to your thoughts.

Jeff

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Uh, I think if you read carefully he said the radio was non functioning, and he tried to get it to work. I think we can safely assume batteries were in. The point is again, not the facade. It's the timing, the situation and the people.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
Right....exactly what I said using
fewer words. No need to disagree
with someone agreeing with you.

You stated:

"Observing characteristics of the contagion
effect is one thing. But observing novel
virus infection vectors is easier said
than done.

Input?"

When you ask for input on an 'easier said than done' and I give example of how, that's not disagreeing. You asked for input, and I gave it.

originally posted by: jritzmann
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Uh, I think if you read carefully he said the radio was non functioning, and he tried to get it to work. I think we can safely assume batteries were in. The point is again, not the facade. It's the timing, the situation and the people.

My bad for rushing to read the link while
at work!

Yes of course.

"The Prince and the Magician"
from "The Magus" by John Fowles

Is the thing to keep in mind....at least
I do.

Ever read it?

Kev

a reply to: jritzmann

Someone invited me to come in this thread as 'trickster' thoughts were being discussed (I think it was user ZetaReticulan)

Yeah, that was me but its ZetaRediculan (as in the Betty Hill star map). I always pick dumb names and get stuck with them.
Anyway, the "trickster" concept is a little different for me so I am working through that. Although I have had some odd experiences, I don't think I would really call any of them "paranormal".

Do you think that these experience can be predicted or even induced somehow? Just thinking that since there seems to be some common elements from what you are saying.

Work has been kicking my butt so I am still catching up.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
Do you think that these experience can be predicted or even induced somehow? Just thinking that since there seems to be some common elements from what you are saying.

In short, yes. I asked Jacques Vallee about the time he tried to 'create' a Skinwalker Ranch. He said he was successful in a small way, but nothing to the degree of the real Ranch. I got the sense he obtained moderate results.

My guess is that he created the needed anti-structure, along with possibly some writing and deeper contemplation (i.e. creativity)

I have said for years, (and you can probably find it here on ATS) that I can give directions for seeing some anomalies, BUT it's a huge caveat. You can't un-see what you might see, and what you may see might be highly debilitating to your life. You also have to follow the directions to 100% accuracy, and devotion. Obsession even might be a good word. There's also a bit of it that depends upon you to understand what questions you have to contemplate.

So, yes, I believe there's a way to do that. I've seen it in action myself, and in that of others. I am currently trying to devise a way to conduct a double blind experiment that may be 'safe' enough (and so I can live with myself) to try with 10-20 people.

But I'm still working on that. There's a hell of a lot of things to consider, including the well being of the subjects who would volunteer. I mean I know a lot of people on here and out in the paranormal public feel this is a fun subject to poke around in, but the fact is when you get serious and leave behind the nonsense that proliferates these fields, you realize quickly it's nothing to fool around with. We don't know what this is all about - so caution is the word of the day.

I only get involved now by balancing it at arms length. You have to know your limits, but you find this stuff pushes those limits without you realizing it, and before you know it you're at the end of the plank.

Jeff

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Indeed. I think we're surrounded by Magicians.

originally posted by: jritzmann
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Indeed. I think we're surrounded by Magicians.

I've PMed you. Definitely would
like to compare notes via another
medium.

One of my favorite things is how the 'amazing stories' of some people are so incredibly trivial for others. I have a friend (many like this actually) who is well known in official parapsychology who was once describing this 'amazing experience' he'd had that was -- seriously -- an improbable coincidence.

I remember thinking, "Let me get this straight. I have astronomical violations of probability 8 times a day at times, I've had experiences where literally the very physical environment of my house was in vibrato time with some kind of low frequency sound, I've seen close-up red-orange cohesive-light orbs less than 30 feet away with others present, I've multiple times had "parallel timelines" demonstrate themselves, and this guy thinks it's high-weirdness to have a COINCIDENCE?!"

Of course, that is why he is a respectable scientist, because his 'weird' life is so freaking boring by any standards but his that he never reports anything that would make him sound like a lunatic. But he is one of the 'experts' mind you so we can all be assured... heh.

*

Bear with me for a moment here, I'm going somewhere with this...

There is a process for "engineering luck." I described a version of it in a previous post. Intentionally 'creating a space for novelty' -- an area of psychology like a doorway where you do not think you know everything -- and then 'intending' for something of a certain nature or a certain end result to be present, and letting go and trusting that your interest, your intent, will pull something of that nature through to you through the opening. Unexpected things 'fall into that crack in probability.'

This can be a conscious exercise, not just a dream exercise. You can use imaginal techniques to design it any way you want. One version I used to use, I would go into my brainstem to a tiny control room in a basement that was 'wired' to the whole body, explain a concise 'intent' to a guy working there, and he would make a golden disk, put it in a machine, and slam this big lever down like those big power switches, and gold light "instructions" would go out from this to the whole body. If I did this right, I could literally FEEL it when this happened -- a nervous system result. (I usually do feel my meditations when they reach a good point -- a bit of an ASMR effect except vastly deeper-fuller.)

I can't tell you how many times I did this and utterly improbable coincidence that suited my intent occurred and I mean occurred FAST. Within hours, minutes, sometimes seconds. Probably the reason I quit doing this is because it so violated every belief system about reality that eventually you can't get around to it because your psychology (change=death) is petrified. This is part of a whole genre of 'archetype work' (starting with a big variation on Steinbrecher's stuff) I've been doing since... 1991 I think it is. I made this one up myself though, well with Tek's help (an internal body-based guide). I could give examples and talk all day, if I could remember them all. Nobody would believe me. Each one sounds like 'amazingly good luck and coincidence of timing' of course -- which it is. But when this happens in accordance with your intent and your timing, over and over and over again, and when the 'improbability' of it starts reaching truly impossible, comic-book proportions regularly, you finally just give up on pretending there isn't "synchronicity" predictably involved.

You don't know WHAT you will get; you only know that you will get SOMETHING, and it will be in accordance with your intent, in some fashion. You find that the more you expect a given thing, the more you limit the results though; the longer things may take to happen, the less impressive when they do. The more you truly let go of expectation, really allow an OPEN space in your belief system, and the more you put some emotion into whatever your intent is, the more it's likely to show up immediately and knock you on your ass, and it might be more surprising but it's likely to be exactly what you wanted, even if in some way you never in a million years would have thought of.

If your 'opening' comes by sharp surprise (a novel event that destabilizes you. For example, a decision to move in a year is not like finding your man in bed with someone at his house, now you've got moving AND something else that suddenly shocked you and what you "thought you knew" about life), if your 'emotion' is deep (like you're affected by other things going on in your life, not just your curiosity about-X), the results can be even more extreme.

This is just how it works. I don't know why it works that way. I don't know if it works for everyone. I just know that this is how it has worked for me, long enough and intentionally enough for me to believe that there is some underlying factor in how my reality is constructed that makes it possible.

*

Now, think about the whole "betwixt and between" stuff from the posts above. This is, essentially, a way of modeling this energy of an open space -- conceptually; open spaces of all kinds, not just in one person's belief systems but really in the "concrete manifestation" of anything, and even in the way we think about things that are manifest (e.g. like the example of "between floors" in a structure), and even in the collective energy of multiple people, cities and gatherings.

Perhaps the same fundamentals that worked for me in this meditation, if legitimately present for "more than just me" of course, would go a long way toward explaining the experiences seemingly invoked or increased by 'the spaces between' and the relationship -- albeit often quite offbeat, yet still usually trackable to correlations -- with the psychology of one or more individuals directly or indirectly involved in "anomalous events."

Except in this case we're talking about:

* people are clueless, they're not doing it on purpose

* a lot of the emotion is actually directly or indirectly fear, or worry about violation of personal space or integrity or person or control, and so on

* a little or a lot, there may be 'expectations' put on that 'open space' -- it's open but only to something "of the nature of" UFOs or ghosts or whatever it is for that person

(continued)

(continued)

We are in a soup. I was once shown earth and it was like a ball in liquid. I said, But I thought that was empty space! There is no such thing as empty space. Space is as much a 'thing' as objects. We are swimming in a stew of energy all the time and mostly we are oblivious to it, because we create a belief system, our own cave wall, that we pay attention to. Something has to slightly destabilize us, make a crack in that otherwise inured seamless picture of experience, for some of that energy to get in. What gets in and how, how deep and how long, has a ton of variables, but many of them relate to us.

That doesn't make the energy less real, the experiences less legitimate, or the person more crazy. That people's psychology is often correlated with their experiences doesn't make the experiences imagined.

It's more like we are magnets and emotions and beliefs "tune us" a certain way, and matching energies in the big soup we live in will gravitate toward us in accordance with our frequency, our tune. We will let them close enough to interact, or not, depending on many factors in our mind, environment and moment.

Sometimes, something happens to a person that kind of shocks them wide open and splatters their energy all over. Getting hit by lightning seems to do this. I had a kundalini experience which is what did it for me. So I got the whole buffet -- so much different stuff I had no idea what to do with it or what to make of it, which was a GOOD thing as it kept me from seizing on a belief system.

It was a long time before I was able to understand, and be shown, that when you are very bright (due to that experience and its results), a lot of things are drawn to you. You become a sort of beacon and a good bunch of that "soup" we're swimming in wants to come see, be warmed by it, interact with that novel new thing tripping like a fool through the deep end of the pool. We're a pulsing energetic "shiny thing." It isn't personal.

If you focus your intent on the unknown, on things that fascinate you but you don't really understand, you are basically "creating an open space" -- mostly open, if not entirely -- and feeding it energy; you are baiting the soup around you -- energy can be an environment, or something affecting the sequence of things, not just a 'thing' or 'being.' All kinds of weird stuff pours in and comes by. People or objects that just aren't... right. Or aren't where -- or when! -- they should be. People and even locations that are clearly in Reality-B while you and others are in Reality-A. You can't even explain that to anybody who hasn't experienced it, it's impossible to grok by intellect alone. Energies of things that in our 'consensus about what is allegedly shared reality' we don't believe in, like ghosts and men with dog-heads and a rabbit that... damn it, that is so NOT a rabbit... you get the idea.

The underlying problem with wrapping our brain around this is that -- well there's a few -- is that we think we are living in a dry void. We think the air around us means "there is nothing there." We think our ability to let "focus" create a seamless reality for us, means that anything different doesn't exist. Then we tear out hair trying to understand gee, why do so many things exist, for so many people, for so much of the planet, through so much of time? As if this is so impossibly amazing, and maybe they are ALL crazy. The illusion is the seamless reality. The chaotic bankok market of the interworlds is the background on which we project our pretty little daily lives. If we're careful, or unusually oblivious, we don't have to see anything else.

Open your mind even a little, let alone shine your attention -- especially with curiosity let alone some nervousness -- in any direction, and you will encounter plenty of the "anything else."

RC

a reply to: RedCairo

How can these two statements coexist?

"REALITY IS NOT A DEMOCRACY."

~my 'Narrator

That people's psychology is often correlated with their experiences doesn't make the experiences imagined.

The problem is in fact that: people's individual psychology becomes correlated to these "experiences".

Husserl?

a reply to: RedCairo

Really just takes a simple act of intention.
But intention is a lost art these days. Most
people can only open up with some form
of death wish --- and that's the worst possible
way to do it.

The key is the willingness to be transformed;
that's why the link to 'death'. Death is the
ultimate transformation.

But if you follow this path...it's forever...
It took me about 40 years to learn the
ropes...

anyone can nuke their life, then go insane
and burn alive. ....

Opening the door is not something to
play with.

In ancient India, initiates were expected
to live a full (married life) and to serve
their fellow man and only to 'sit' (summon
the Trickster so to speak) when mature
trained and past middle age.

Kev

PS: you know this of course!

originally posted by: jritzmann

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
Do you think that these experience can be predicted or even induced somehow? Just thinking that since there seems to be some common elements from what you are saying.

In short, yes. I asked Jacques Vallee about the time he tried to 'create' a Skinwalker Ranch. He said he was successful in a small way, but nothing to the degree of the real Ranch. I got the sense he obtained moderate results.

My guess is that he created the needed anti-structure, along with possibly some writing and deeper contemplation (i.e. creativity)

I have said for years, (and you can probably find it here on ATS) that I can give directions for seeing some anomalies, BUT it's a huge caveat. You can't un-see what you might see, and what you may see might be highly debilitating to your life. You also have to follow the directions to 100% accuracy, and devotion. Obsession even might be a good word. There's also a bit of it that depends upon you to understand what questions you have to contemplate.

So, yes, I believe there's a way to do that. I've seen it in action myself, and in that of others. I am currently trying to devise a way to conduct a double blind experiment that may be 'safe' enough (and so I can live with myself) to try with 10-20 people.

But I'm still working on that. There's a hell of a lot of things to consider, including the well being of the subjects who would volunteer. I mean I know a lot of people on here and out in the paranormal public feel this is a fun subject to poke around in, but the fact is when you get serious and leave behind the nonsense that proliferates these fields, you realize quickly it's nothing to fool around with. We don't know what this is all about - so caution is the word of the day.

I only get involved now by balancing it at arms length. You have to know your limits, but you find this stuff pushes those limits without you realizing it, and before you know it you're at the end of the plank.

Holy cow. How have we never crossed paths?

If you want, I got the rural test site.

a reply to: jritzmann

I have said for years, (and you can probably find it here on ATS) that I can give directions for seeing some anomalies, BUT it's a huge caveat. You can't un-see what you might see, and what you may see might be highly debilitating to your life. You also have to follow the directions to 100% accuracy, and devotion. Obsession even might be a good word. There's also a bit of it that depends upon you to understand what questions you have to contemplate

Interesting. I'm not really looking to experience anything myself right now. I lived a fairly bizarre lifestyle earlier in my life, all of which is against the T&Cs to talk about. I paid the piper so to speak so I get what you are talking about to some degree. Those experiences are there forever and certainly have shaped who I am today on a pretty significant level. "Obsession" is a good word. Did you ever read "Electric Koolaid" by Tom Wolfe?

You mentioned "divorce" and some other stresses in life as a trigger for the phenomenon. I did experience some bizarreness at the time of my divorce and even some odd coincidences. One in particular was just a phone call from a friend at a significant time. The meaning and significance I ascribed to that "non event" was remarkable to the point where it actually helped me through that time. About a year or so ago, I quit my job without any other work lined up. During my job hunt, I noticed that I would revert to "magical thinking" where significance was placed on mundane things. For instance, the timing of interviews and the order that they occurred was meaningful. Like there was some significance to all the events as if they were timed. But really, I was just going on a lot of interviews.

It seems like ascribing "meaningfulness" to things is somewhat of a side effect during these transitional times as it was with my earlier psychedelic days. The commonality would be that there is an enhancement or an alteration to perception either from being overwhelmed with stress or by the flooding of synapses artificially. To what degree do you think these experiences are just a matter of distorted perceptions?

a reply to: Kandinsky

For example, an airliner incident included the flight crew and passengers reportedly seeing objects on the port side (iirc).

To frame that as an example of parasites is problematic. Firstly because the parasites in each respective witness would need to simultaneously trigger a single hallucination/delusion.

All it need take is a single ambient precipitating factor, possibly a change in light conditions or the inhalation of some chemical.

Secondly we'd need an explanation of how those on the plane became infected when we might expect they originated in different locations.

Airline food. You can blame almost anything on airline food.

By the way, the remark about nonphysical parasites wasn't intended to imply that vampires and succubi were real entities, but that they, too, are manifestations of some kind of 'psychic parasite infection', just like UFOs.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I do not want to read all the thread, my choice.

Thanks for letting us know. That gives us a context in which to evaluate your contributions.

Also it is not your choice to whom members reply.

I never tried to make it mine. Still, I am free to draw my own conclusions regarding why you chose to reply to someone else on a point originally brought up by me.

Hi all.

Interesting thread with some of my favourite ATS people putting forth very interesting theories. I have little to add at this point, but I thought I'd drop this video in from Mr Mask, 'The Extraterrestrial hypothesis vs Jacques Vallee'. Hopefully on topic and of some merit to the discussion.



For what it's worth, I do think there is something to the 'lim kanal' hypothesis, having experienced my own episodes with weirdness here. I've never heard the 'parasite' theory advanced before. Thanks Astyanax. I can't comment at all on the validity of this, but it's fascinating, and something I'd never really considered before.