Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

It's a vast phenomena. I'd say that quantum mechanics is a symptom of it, which goes to show you that this 'Trickster business' is built into every atom, particle and thought.

It's funny that you say that. I've often thought about this when debugging circuits. I build electronics as a hobby at night when the family is asleep. At least, that's my latest hobby, I have a lot of them, but just kind of spend time doing different things as I feel the interest.

Anyway, I mostly like to build guitar effects, amplifiers, that kind of thing at present. And in almost every case they work first time, with no issues. Sometimes I will have to debug a circuit and usually it's just a simple thing, a stupid mistake and then once that's fixed it works fine. After some playing at home I'll take it to band practice to try it out. It never seems to fail when I have some great new stomp box that I want to pull out in a certain song that it will not work. No matter what I do it's either dead or makes crazy feedback or something else. But when I take it home to check it out it's almost always fine. Works like a champ. I feel like I'm just being messed with.

I wondered what could account for this. It's like whatever it is is just laughing in my face. The other guys in my band must think I'm just inept. It seems that every time I bring something new out it fails. I know they must think I just don't know what I'm doing, but then I take it back home and it works just fine. But why? What's the point? It's kind of like when I search for my car keys for half an hour and they end up being in the first place I looked. I know I looked there before but there they are.

a reply to: wtbengineer

As you know, it's called "Murphy's Law" and it's definitely part of the
Trickster. It's true, that some people tend to attract the Trickster
in one of it's aspects. I hope you don't actually attract "Murphy's Law";
if you do, maybe it's time for a little 'relationship building' with
'the Trickster'.

Now whether there is a truly sentient / person-like aspect to the
'Trickster' or not is actually irrelevant. We all know that 'the
Trickster' accesses us by filtering through our personality
in both directions.. so WE (our unconscious minds) are part
of 'the Trickster' too.

So maybe you are looking for this sort of phenomenon to occur..

Just a thought.

Kev

originally posted by: RedCairo

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
The purpose of the awakening is advertised as 'for purposes of attaining
enlightenment' and there is indeed a 'little' something to that.. but in
fact, in my experience anyway, the 'real goal' is to prepare the body
as a host for 'something', which i have at times called a plasma
parasite.

Or, the Holy Guardian Angel or Atman or Solar Body or whatever-we-want-to-call-it finally has a human developed sufficiently to allow more formal integration.

Kev only you would call it a plasma parasite. I would argue about ego and threat but I don't want to argue especially about anybody else's life which I can't possibly know.

Now to embarrass myself I've actually run into 'lurking parasites' within me that probably qualify as such. I'm overdue for a couple major meditations on that at the moment in fact.

But there is also, wholly separate from that, what amounts to a fundamentally divine larger-part-of-self that one gradually absorbs more of, as well. I would not want to imply that this is inherently negative.

'This' is not positive or negative. Ultimately nothing is positive or negative
on the grandest of scales.

There are a lot of reasons why I talk about things in terms of parasites and
symbiotes. But one of them is the Trickster aspect is apparently tired of
all the New Age BS and wants to deconstruct some of it.. that's my
opinion anyway.

As you know VERY WELL, we are part of a larger life, that is not centered
around humans --- but is centered around the larger life.

'This' is not about humans.. not about 'souls' or 'spirits' and especially not
about 'enlightenment'. Those concepts need to be discarded.. they are
part of what keeps us in this loop of suffering and destruction.

Now.. are we part of a larger life? Yes. Can we integrate more fully into
it? Yes. Is it all about us, or even mainly about us? No.

I also have no desire to get into an argument about this, or tell anyone
how to live their life.

You can always talk to me you know.. I don't bite..

Kev

So maybe you are looking for this sort of phenomenon to occur..

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You may be right. At least I find myself expecting it. I also find it happening to me at work all the time. I can't get a program to work like it should when others seem to have no problem. Frustrating.

originally posted by: wtbengineer

So maybe you are looking for this sort of phenomenon to occur..

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You may be right. At least I find myself expecting it. I also find it happening to me at work all the time. I can't get a program to work like it should when others seem to have no problem. Frustrating.

I'm not the amazing Kreskin, and I'm not a counselor or life coach, but
perhaps you feel like a victim inside of yourself, and draw things
into your life, to keep you locked into that victim state.

You don't need to do that. You are an awesome human being with
lots of potential, and you can steer your life into a different
direction if you make the choice to do so.

Most people don't make choices, so they get swept along by the
current, then they complain about the current.

Kev

You don't need to do that. You are an awesome human being with lots of potential, and you can steer your life into a different direction if you make the choice to do so.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I absolutely agree with this, for many years I struggled and it seemed that life was just against me. But I've for the most part turned it all around. I went back to school and now have a career, I have a wonderful wife now and 2 little ones. So much with my life is good now, it seems that it's just sort of small nuisance stuff that bugs me occasionally now.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: Tangerine
...

Or how it is said that kids become easy target(Not 110 percent sure) for paranormal phenomena, would it be because they are easy targets by something external, or would their brain play powerful tricks on them caused by the internal.
...

(Ever wondered why religions are scared of change? I've thought about it a lot.)
...

Have you considered the possibility that kids aren't sufficiently socially conditioned to deny paranormal phenomena whereas adults are? If you bring up this topic in conversation with a group of adults in a non-disparaging way, I can almost promise you that some of those people will recount anomalous experiences--even if they have to wait until everyone else has left to approach you privately.

Religions are social control mechanisms. The leaders are afraid of change because change has the potential to wrest control from them. That said, the most powerful leaders do change religion as a way of exercising even more power. You see this when clergy or religious cult leaders claim to have received prophecies that spin non-traditional interpretations of holy books. Creating nonsense rules and changing the rules without notice are also extremely powerful techniques used by cult leaders to destabilize followers and make them even more vulnerable to control. Religion is a very interesting subject and there's a huge problem when religions spring up in response to paranormal phenomena. In my opinion, UFOs are fast becoming the focus of a burgeoning religion or religions.

Normally, adults would try to use the paranormal to explain to kids that some Boogey man will or Santa Claus won't come just because they are bad. Worse thing that can happen is if the adult believes in the boogey man and still tries pushing it on their kid. Religion does the same too, except the Boogey man is "God", however, if adults had more profound paranormal experiences, their very view of reality could be shatter much easier then any child, but that if the paranormal was trying to extend its hand. And usually, everyone runs to Jesus in such matters.

Thing about UFO's though, is that they could be very well out of any human control or influence, and they could have a mind of their own. Especially if they've(who's operating) been studying or watching our species rise from blood and mud, then they could easily force themselves on any government or military, but thats if it were an E.T scenario like sci-fi films where the scenario could be they are invading or they'd need to cut the terrestrial umbilical cord.

However, the paranormal side of the UFO phenomenon is a dual sided coin, and if aliens or UFO's were considered Gods who'd probably say their demons just for the hell of it

Well, better say his name a bunch of times, when no other God is around you, why the sudden change?

a reply to: wtbengineer

I'm very glad to hear it my friend.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Thanks, that's very nice of you to say!

originally posted by: RedCairo
What to do if I want a certain probable future, but everybody else around me wants something different? And a voice said clearly: "Reality is not a democracy. It is not a matter of being outvoted. Your reality belongs to you and you only. You will experience what you choose."
RC

But what if the reality I "choose" (or wish to choose) is for my daughter and I to be living in a healthy, 'sane' world?

Because I swear I keep 'choosing' that, and it is not manifesting.

Not to interrupt the flow here, but I just wanted to mention I've now answered the many private messages generated from this thread. I'm sorry for the delay in responding but it's all sorted now. Thanks for all the notes.

Jeff

originally posted by: wtbengineer

It was a place I had never anticipated even existing, and voices were telling me "your doomed, you'll never be the same, this is forever" and they were right. Almost 40 years later I am still changed, I am still this hollow shell of what I was. I have achieved a lot of things but have never been inspired since before the event. I am dead.

I'm sorry to bring this up again (sorry to re-introduce something so painful), but in light of your more recent posts, I would like to offer something, or as RedCairo said, "I think some innate healing instinct in me wants to reframe that in some way."

While I have never experienced anything 'paranormal', I do deal with crippling Major Depressive Disorder, which truly feels as if it is something 'visited upon' or 'done to' me and which has left me feeling exactly as you describe above...

What helps me, to some degree, is to look at the 'results' of that suffering in such an objective way as to be able to look for elements of 'who I am' (or the person I have come to be), which are good and yet which I would not have 'become' if I had not gone thru this suffering.

And although it does not eliminate or diminish the pain, I am at least able to see that some 'worth' has come out of it, which does somewhat help in 'reframing' the suffering such that I can prevent myself from 'feeding' even 'more' pain into my life as a whole...

In other words, I try not to let myself get 'stuck in a place' of feeling bad 'about' feeling bad...

(I hope all of that makes sense?)

a reply to: lostgirl

My observation is that we live in the
past where all choices have been made.

Sounds depressing I know.

But RC is right....we can make choices
in our own little 'bubble' that are worth
making.

This subject deserves its own 500
response thread though.

Kev

a reply to: lostgirl

That's really good! In the vein of if
life hands you lemons make
lemonade.

Kev

a reply to: lostgirl

Thank you for that post and I feel that I also do the same things that you describe. I am glad, after the fact, to have suffered. Suffering is never easy or pleasurable but it is profitable to the quest for development and growth. Also maturity. I don't dwell on the things that happened to me 40 years ago, but just wanted to try to explain the profound effect they had on the rest of my life. I was as changed as a man who had been severely disabled whose life can never be the same and yet if he develops the proper attitude even he can rise up and become something. Thank you to everyone who had kind words for me here, I appreciate all of them. Now, let's see if we can add anything to the topic at hand.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Let's say that 'the Trickster' is an emergent property of fundamental reality, that we see in many forms and guises.

So, in effect, it can be anything you want it to be, which deprives the concept of any explanatory power whatsoever.

Thank you. No further questions.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Let's say that 'the Trickster' is an emergent property of fundamental reality, that we see in many forms and guises.

So, in effect, it can be anything you want it to be, which deprives the concept of any explanatory power whatsoever.

Thank you. No further questions.

Yes. It's sort of like most modern physics, other than
the standard theory.

Kev

originally posted by: Astyanax
(I wrote)...that would require elevating parasites to the level of actual individual intelligent entities in control of humans to such a degree we might as well go back to ufology for the answers
(you wrote)... It wouldn't. Take a look at some of the links to parasitology articles I posted earlier. I also mentioned some examples in the posts themselves.

Perhaps we simply need to separate different genre of experience or something. I did not see how the spectrum I know, or even most of it, could be covered by such explanation. I mean some things, maybe, if we add a lot of assumptions and rule out a lot of outlier data and so on. But even that's kinda forcing things to fit with all the grace of Cinderella's sisters and the shoe, it seems like.

Also, I think you may be failing to distinguish between 'impelled' and 'compelled'.

Oh heck, you're right. Well at least I got over my long brainfreeze about implied vs. inferred. Every year or so my brain picks some twosome of terms like these to just glom together and I constantly mix them up. Thanks!

RC

a reply to: RedCairo

Perhaps we simply need to separate different genre of experience or something. I did not see how the spectrum I know, or even most of it, could be covered by such explanation.

I think what we need to separate, as I said earlier, are the discussion of the phenomenon and the testimonies about it.

Cairo, you're taking a very general suggestion I made and applying it quite specifically — to yourself and your own experiences. I certainly did not intend my suggestion to be used in such a way; in fact, I think you'll find that I posted it before you came on the thread. You may be sure I did not have you in mind while writing it.

Tangerine, Red Cairo's post vividly illustrates why I was concerned about the way this thread has moved from discussing the UFO phenomenon in general to presenting and discussing individual accounts of it (and of other more or less related phenomena).

I think — I would, wouldn't I? — that a sceptical approach is always useful when discussing or investigating unknown phenomena. It need not be the only approach, but it surely has its place. When the conversation moves from the general to the personal, however, scepticism starts to look like churlish disbelief.

I do not wish to be taken personally. I would like it understood that my contributions to this thread are not intended to call into question the veracity of any experiences people have shared here. I realize that my use of the word 'tall stories' might have been taken amiss. I'm afraid I cannot regret that. A tall story is not necessarily an untrue one, merely one that strains credibility. Some of the stories told above are, indeed, hard to believe, and that has been my reaction to them. But, as I said earlier, this does not mean they are untrue.

Now, farewell, all: when autobiography arrives at the party, scepticism, for reasons of courtesy and social harmony, must take its leave. I don't suppose you'll miss me much, but I do hope you'll keep a door open on the thread for other points of view.

a reply to: Astyanax

I like rational people!

From my perspective, you are always welcome.
In fact I watch for your responses in other posts,
as you are a 'bit tough' but that's OK.. we need
'tough' instead of 'mush headed'.

In a perfect world, the 'Trickster' could be dissected
under a scanning electron Microscope and double
blind tested.

Unfortunately the 'Trickster' seems to be in part
our own unconscious brains AND seems to have
a connection with the laws of physics in a plastic
way in terms of actually being able to affect
'reality'.

So you can't get more subjective than that..
so autobiographical accounts are not just
necessary, but are in fact CRITICAL.

You come across as a skeptic, but not a mindless
and cruel debunker... and that's fine... I'm a
skeptic too.. I don't believe in UFOs or
the flawed human concept of 'god'.

Now strange stuff in the sky? sure. Amazing
laws of nature that include a psychoactive
component? Sure. But humans don't understand
either one very well, and much more research
is required.

Kev