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Is ATS accusing it's members of being Russian shills?

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posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord

First off thank you for responding



If you look at the entire Twitter conversation, not just select bits, I did.


The response about the both sides didn't get posted till this thread got closed. At the time of creating this thread there was only the two stating that many of the Putin lovers are a part of an online army posting.

I was asking were you talking about your current members of ATS that don't hold the pro western view point? As a lot of posters here use the same derogatory term "Putin lover". I am fully aware that you are your own person with your own thoughts and opinions and are fully entitled to express them. I felt that if you were accusing your current membership of being shills under a promotion of a thread about Russia/US it was bad form. Especially after asking your members to help you reach 100,000 followers.

Thank you for clarifying the situation.





edit on 19-2-2015 by sosobad because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: sosobad
It would be more absurd to say that they arent here. Thats like saying that when the US was pushing for war with Iran that we had genuine citizens doing 12 hour shifts in some cases promoting that war.

I am sorry. I dont care if some people dismiss the idea that any superpower cant afford or doesnt need online spokesmen. Its retarded to think of Russia as being above that.

I have personally had a thread on Russian propaganda bombarded by "members" that are no longer even around.
If they werent on the Russian doll then they should have been. You can get passionate and dissagree...but to insult and go ape isht over the words of some random dumbass online is a bit much.

I imagined them almost in tears and screaming at the screen or in Russia with a grin.

it was surreal.


edit on 2 19 2015 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 03:10 PM
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Respect when respect is due,big guy comes on and opens thread


So respect that

Will leave this thread to sosobad and thanks for the thread I too saw your original comment regarding this in another thread and saw it deleted quickly



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: sosobad
It would be more absurd to say that they arent here. Thats like saying that when the US was pushing for war with Iran that we had genuine citizens doing 12 hour shifts in some cases promoting that war.

I am sorry. I dont care if some people dismiss the idea that any superpower cant afford or doesnt need online spokesmen. Its retarded to think of Russia as being above that.







I would like if you read the op instead of calling me retarded. There was something posted on twitter stating that many of the "Putin lovers" where part of a online army posting for Russia. I was asking clarification as to was this a blanket statement against those who do not hold the pro western point of view.

I am not that naive that I think Russia is some sort of saviour of the world ( no matter what some members might think) There is an online presence from a lot of countries not just Russia or the US.
edit on 19-2-2015 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: sosobad

I dont think I actually called you retarded. Maybe you should take a break. You are a little too aggressive for my taste. Enjoy your thread.

Also for the record....I gave you my personal opinion as clarification. I dont think I even disagreed with you, I just spoke my mind...This BS attitude is what I am talking about.

maybe you guys need to ask if you are against western thought or just westerners in general....because I am a little tired of the nonsense. Maybe the tweet should be reread by some...it seems to prove itself.

edit on 2 19 2015 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 03:33 PM
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I don't get the upset here at all.

There are shills on nearly every subject imaginable on ATS.

It's a fact of life on ATS.

They actually sharpen the reasoning and debate skills of the regular ATS members.

Get over it, so what?

If you suspect someone is a paid contributer by whomever, the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, the Islamic State, the CIA, whatever.
First, notice how long they have been a member
then notice the number of posts, stars, flags, awards etc.
Then if they are either very recent
or an account was started a few years ago
but only has a handful of recent posts
or they have lots of posts but nearly no stars or awards
well you can decide for yourself.

The very best thing to do with what you suspect is a paid shill, a troll?

IGNORE them, pretend their post doesn't exist
they want attention and notice, don't give it to them




If you just can't control your emotions and feel you must respond
do these things;

First to really steam them, (remember their goal is to get you angry or upset)
compliment them or agree with them on something,
even if it is you have a cool avatar or something like that:

Rebut them with logic, very cold, very hard logic:

If they misquote you or pull something out of context you said
call them on it with cool, rational and unemotional responses:

After giving your rebuttal,
say you will no longer respond to anything they post since they
....(said something unkind/misquoted you/took something you said out of context),
that they aren't worth your time or energy
to respond since they can't have a logical rational and unemotional conversation.

Then IGNORE them.





Do NOT use emotional words or come back at them with emotional words,
that is what they want from the ATS members,
to lose their cool and look stupid in the process so they can ridicule you further.







edit on 3Thu, 19 Feb 2015 15:37:55 -0600pm21902pmk194 by grandmakdw because: addition format



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: Whereismypassword




It's getting beyond a joke in here when the anti Russians post baseless lies and keep repeating the mantra Russia has invaded Ukraine or Putin is Hitler


Unlike the anti west/US posts that are baseless and lies, and not to mention the Ukraine gov't is nothing but Nazi's, and facists so again it goes both ways.



Still old west mentality while they send other peoples children to kill other peoples children


Just as every country that has a military does when involved in a conflict...so the whole world has the same mentality.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 03:58 PM
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This situation really is getting out of hand. I can't count how many threads I've seen get closed due to trolling over the Russian/Ukrainian crisis. I witnessed a thread closed just now in which it started out with productive, intelligent conversation that was on topic and relevant to current events concerning the crisis. Yet it was flooded with personal attacks and anti-western craziness and ended up closed.

It seriously pisses me off that threads are being closed due to such tactics (and yes, I do believe that some of it may be intentional). I have seen ATS take measures to address the issue in the past, but it seems more could be done. Maybe instead of closing threads, temporary posting bans could be handed out if an individual is warned in a particular thread and continues the behavior? I suppose that becomes difficult to enforce if these actions are being carried out by a large number of people.

I'm not saying everyone who doesn't blindly support U.S foreign policy is a Russian shill, but there is a big problem when people can't even discuss the issue in a civil fashion without threads being shut down as a result of certain members who obviously aren't interested in having a 2 way conversation.

I don't think I've ever seen a conflict in my own lifetime where the propaganda has been more prevalent (or effective). Granted, I am middle aged, but the internet has really revolutionized the process.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: tadaman



maybe you guys need to ask if you are against western thought or just westerners in general....because I am a little tired of the nonsense. Maybe the tweet should be reread by some...it seems to prove itself.


You guys? Who exactly is you guys?

The tweet was update with a response 2 hours ago this thread was made over 12 hours ago. I read the tweet last night and had a question, is there anything unreasonable about that?

What I do find unreasonable is to be told to go elsewhere if I want to have an opinion (not you) and followed up in messages suggesting to me I should go somewhere else if I want to voice an opinion. All because I asked this question. It goes both ways, there is vitriol on both sides.
edit on 19-2-2015 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

Well, one of the reasons why can't you have a normal discussion about the crisis in Ukraine, is because a selective few members have been saying nonsense since the beginning of it. I've witnessed it from the beginning, pushing propaganda, saying lies as if they were truth, doing everything they can to completely go off topic because they've got no proof. I mean, comparing Putin to Hitler is the biggest nonsense out of i've ever heard. How can you have a normal discussion with them? How do you explain the number of threads created by just ONE member that were anti-Russian? It's insane.

But, what do you expect when the owner of this site told us the RT is bunch of propaganda...I mean i started to question the integrity of this site.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: Nikola014

But, what do you expect when the owner of this site told us the RT is bunch of propaganda...I mean i started to question the integrity of this site.



Do you deny RT reports Pro Russian/Anti Western propaganda?

Western Media promotes Western Propaganda that's a given, why is it so hard to believe RT plays their part for Mother Russia, I mean, their owners?



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: Nikola014

you do realize that RT is STATE FUNDED....it can not in a million years say anything negative about Russia.
Thats like expecting Fox to be unbiased about Rupert murdock.

Honestly I am no less a member when the subject matter is not something I agree with.
You may question the ownerships integrity....I question that of some members.
I mean come on.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:21 PM
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It's interesting when the topic of shills comes up, because I find some interesting similarities to what a propagandist from Russia says...

Now I don't like to use that, and don't think I ever have, but when certain things are said that mimic what a paid Russian online comment propaganda army says one has to wonder...


The coordinator then provided an example of such postings, including several about Alexei Navalny, Russia's main opposition leader. “Navalny is the Hitler of Our Time," one said.

Others targeted the U.S.:

“Friends, wake up! America is not our friend, but really the worst enemy!” one blogger wrote. “Behind America’s smile and handshake, there is only its task of genocide and the complete destruction of our country.”


www.theatlantic.com...

Now with the comments above, and comments we have seen on ATS as of late similarities are there. Now whether this is just a coincidence, or not I can't say.

So all the comments posted here are of my opinion and not that of the ATS staff, or the owners.


And again I am not calling anyone who sides with the Russian policies as shills...diluted maybe, but not a shill.


So don't take things so personal, because if your not a shill why let it bother you?



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

I agree. But that's not the point. The point is that the owner of ATS singled out JUST RT without mentioning any other MSM. Do you think we are that stupid?

Let's say If i were to push propaganda and to say same nonsense over and over again, wouldn't i been considered to be a shill? You would be expecting me to get banned, right? If the answer is yes, then cool, we agree. Now let's talk why's that haven't been done. Maybe someone wants that type of propaganda to be pushed on the American site?

I don't know, I am just thinking out loud. I am off to sleep now. Wouldn't be surprised if i am banned when i wake up.

JUST KIDDING( i hope ) !
edit on 19-2-2015 by Nikola014 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:29 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

Let`s see on how such things occur...

At one moment the Syrian War was about to end because Hezbollah, Iran and the Syrian army did a good job in winning the War...but what happens next, US starts to supply weapons and starts to train the rebels to not let the war end.

Now with the Ukrainian War it`s exactly the same. UAF isn`t capable enough anymore to win the war and the response is to send in weapons, so this war can also continue.

And what are many advocating here on this forum, "send in more weapons, troops, etc"...just go straight towards WW3 with nukes who will fly all over the World and ending humanity.

So do you think it`s odd that there are people who will respond emotionally to something like that ?



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:36 PM
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originally posted by: sosobad
The response about the both sides didn't get posted till this thread got closed.

I didn't even know about this thread until minutes before I reopened and posted. I've been too busy working on the water fluoridation NLBS episode (notice our twitter was quiet today).



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: DeadSeraph

Let`s see on how such things occur...

At one moment the Syrian War was about to end because Hezbollah, Iran and the Syrian army did a good job in winning the War...but what happens next, US starts to supply weapons and starts to train the rebels to not let the war end.

Now with the Ukrainian War it`s exactly the same. UAF isn`t capable enough anymore to win the war and the response is to send in weapons, so this war can also continue.

And what are many advocating here on this forum, "send in more weapons, troops, etc"...just go straight towards WW3 with nukes who will fly all over the World and ending humanity.

So do you think it`s odd that there are people who will respond emotionally to something like that ?





Well, I think the Syrian crisis and the Ukrainian crisis are two very different issues. I did not support U.S intervention in Syria, and I still don't. However, I also don't support Russian intervention in Ukraine.



Now with the Ukrainian War it`s exactly the same. UAF isn`t capable enough anymore to win the war and the response is to send in weapons, so this war can also continue.


Do you maybe think that the U.S is trying to avoid a direct conflict with Russia in an effort to prevent WWIII? I think perhaps it has less to do with them not being "capable enough" and more to do with being aware that a war between NATO and Russia would not be good for anyone on the planet...



And what are many advocating here on this forum, "send in more weapons, troops, etc"...just go straight towards WW3 with nukes who will fly all over the World and ending humanity.


Ironically, the only person I've seen suggest that very scenario on this site is a pro-putin poster who is involved in almost every discussion on the subject. This individual went so far as to suggest Putin should take Kiev and invade the rest of Europe. Nobody on the pro-western side of the fence has suggested we initiate WWIII, at least that I'm aware of. If anything, I think that is the one scenario we would all like to avoid, hence why we are so concerned about Russia's actions.

In the end, the problem isn't that you view the conflict one way, and I view it differently. The problem is that some people simply CAN'T look at the crisis objectively, or from any other angle than the perspective they currently hold. That is the crux of the problem. You can't have a conversation with someone who isn't willing to consider ANYTHING you say. It just degrades into a shouting match, which is pretty much what is happening on these boards.

The fact people are upset that RT has been labeled "propaganda" is in itself rather curious, since it is obviously a state owned media outlet that never criticizes Putin, and always tows the party line. They have even had journalists quit over it.

So lets not pretend one side is completely innocent in all of this, because BOTH sides have their hands dirty. Being able to see past ones own bias is a good step in the right direction towards opening the subject up to constructive debate.
edit on 19-2-2015 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: sosobad
The response about the both sides didn't get posted till this thread got closed.

I didn't even know about this thread until minutes before I reopened and posted. I've been too busy working on the water fluoridation NLBS episode (notice our twitter was quiet today).





I understand that, was only clarifying. I know you are a busy man and appreciated you getting back to me.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 05:11 PM
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originally posted by: sosobad
There is an actual effort to demonize Russia.

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

You've said this many times throughout this thread, and I feel I need to respond to this statement.

Russia is demonizing itself.

They are acting like a little kid poking a bee's nest to see what happens, when they fly their bombers in or unnecessarily too close to the airspace of many major powers around the world. There's absolutely zero good reason to fly military power in or near the air spaces of major countries around the world to try to provoke a response. None.

Not to mention the fighting going on in the Ukraine which many major powers have asked Russia to stop.

The "Russia is innocent" crap isn't holding up at all. They are showing the world that they are an untrustworthy, politically-unstable country that is isolating itself through its current actions, and going against the grain of the civilized world.






As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 05:16 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph



Ironically, the only person I've seen suggest that very scenario on this site is a pro-putin poster who is involved in almost every discussion on the subject.


I have been reading several lately about needing to send US arms to Kiev.



However, I also don't support the Russian intervention in Ukraine.


But what do you support in that matter ?

There are millions of people living in Eastern Ukraine who have fought for their lives and homeland, and that`s not something which understandable ?

The West knew perfectly well what was going to happen, and yet they made a coup, paid money and send weapons to keep on fighting...and you expect The Kremlin to just sit on their hands and do nothing ?



Do you maybe think that the U.S is trying to avoid a direct conflict with Russia in an effort to prevent WWIII? I think maybe it has less to do with them not being "capable enough" and more to do with being aware that a war between NATO and Russia would not be good for anyone on the planet...


US knows it`s not going to win and we all will lose...there will be no winners, because it goes nuclear for sure very quickly.

We can question if the US is avoiding it ?...either this has been brought in the news as a smoke screen (to make the impression NATO is divided) or there is a rift and who wants to keep on going with war yet again ?

German newspaper BILD gets inside US-NATO-Nuland planning session

The Debaltsevo pocket was a totally mad thing...

The Beautiful Truth about Minsk II & The Debaltsevo Debacle

At this moment the Separatists are actually withdrawing except at Debaltsevo, because there seem still to be units who don`t want to surrender (probably foreign fighters (NATO or Mercenaries)).

DPR troops withdraw heavy armament according to Minsk agreements



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