For everyone who claims Shariah is not slowly creeping up in America . . . . .

originally posted by: chuck258
I don't generalize, I am only defending the feelings of those that do. If peaceful Muslims have a right to complain about discrimination (I would argue that they do), then so do gun owners. The rhetoric needs to tone down on both sides and we need to agree what the true enemy is (ISIS and other extremists), CALL THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE, terrorists (Which Obama is now refusing to do), and fight against them (we are doing the bare minimum).

Actually Obama is refusing to call them Muslim terrorists. He still calls them terrorists.

The problem is, the label of being a gun owner or right winger can carry life altering consequences, gun store owners stores are being shut down by the IRS, people are calling the cops on those who choose to carry in hoping they get 'SWATTED", new laws are being continually passed that attempt further restriction at lawful gun ownership, and our very own president has voiced his dis-taste for guns and is using 100% of his authority to further his agenda.

Do you think life for a Muslim in America is any different. Where you can be stopped and questioned about your travels just because your name sounds Middle Eastern? Where people post large rants on message boards saying your people are trying to overrun the country? If you know how this feels then stop making threads like your OP.

Let's see what Muslims are facing in this country: A few random hate crimes (not insignificant, mind you), being told their religion is terroristic. . . . thats about it, but at the same time many of the Right Wingers that own the guns I mentioned above also face that and are persecuted even more so (IE the Mayor of Houston demanding church sermons, the government trying to tax churches based on attendance, atheist groups attempting to sue churches for 'defrauding' the local government.

Uh... That is a very narrow definition of what is happening to Muslims. If you believe otherwise then you are SERIOUSLY biased.

Anti-Muslim Bigotry

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

It's like something out of a sci-fi movie.

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes



OK, let's cut to the quick.

Enlightened and modern Muslims

are the ones who should be the most outraged

are the ones who should be furious at Muslims

who make their religion look evil and horrific

It is Muslims themselves who are making the world

think they are horrid people.

It is Muslims who need to step up and stop this religious war.

Because non-Muslims speaking up about the evil deeds of those

who call themselves Muslims, mean absolutely nothing to those

committing the acts

and defiling the name of Allah

and defiling the entire religion

with their acts in the name of Allah


It is the Muslim community who needs to be outraged at them
and not at the people who have been made to fear them
by fellow Muslims

it is ONLY the enlightened, good, and modern Muslims
who can put a stop to the horrific reputation
that is being heaped upon their religion.

Anyone else getting involved will be seen as
Muslim oppression
by even the enlightened, good and modern Muslims
and make things worse.

Don't blame people for being afraid, they
have a right to be
the behavior on this soil
and on EU soil
and especially in the Middle East
have given non-Muslims reason to fear.

How are non-Muslims to tell which
are good, enlightened, modern Muslims
and which are plotting to
do terror?
That is impossible.

Muslims themselves must act,
act swiftly,
act harshly
and put an end to the slander of their religion and their personhood

by fellow Muslims who defile Allah and Mohammad

with their actions in the name of Allah and Mohammad.

originally posted by: OrphanApology
a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

It's like something out of a sci-fi movie.

I see stuff from Fox maybe once or twice a year, and lately the dystopia factor has been increasing exponentially.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Like you said-it becomes never ending battle-I don't want that,either.

The answer (in my opinion only) is in our DNA.

Thousands of years of a group terrorizing the world is ridiculous-bullets and bombs have become useless in a true global war.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Why do you think they aren't?

"Muslims aren't doing enough to speak out...!"

Is it perchance because you haven't looked?

ETA: That source predated this recent attack and goes up to the Charlie Hebdo incident. Since then, we have this:
Egypt bombs IS in Libya after beheadings video

a reply to: chuck258

Oh yes, gun owners and christians have it sooooo hard in this country.


What you listed is a whole other thread if you want to get started on that.

Your cartoon only sums up a biased opinion, at which sure it does nicely.
The US has already blown up the ME for 10+ years, lets let some one else do it for once since it is their back yard.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: chuck258

So do they need to resort to violence and then be chastised as being violent people??

All you can do is condemn the actions, once you start meeting violence with violence then you just start a circle that ends badly for all.

If the terrorist threat is as small as Liberals make it out to be, then if the 9/10ths of peaceful Muslims stopped enabling the 1/10 violent portion, it would be over in short order.

It is much MUCH easier for a local group to root out an internal affliction that is mixed and mingled with it than it is for an external force to uproot it. IE, if the peaceful muslims outnumber the violent ones 9:1, they should not have to much of an issue fighting against them.

So there are 2 answers to this: The Active Radical Muslim threat is much larger than even we think it is.
or a sizeable, appreciable portion of the non 'active' Muslim population is at least sympathetic to their cause, either way it is not good for us. Either we have way more bad guys who want to kill us than we think, or there are a huge number of 'non-radicals' who really don't care what the radicals do to us, and if that is the case, then I have no sympathy for them.

a reply to: chuck258

This is a false analogy that you would make you HIGHLY upset if it were made about peaceful gun-owners looking for violent ones or peaceful Christians getting rid of violent Christians. Also see my previous post. Muslims ARE speaking out against this. You just aren't looking for it so you can deny it is happening.

a reply to: FalcoFan

We don't do things like that anymore. There is a reason we tell ourselves that we aren't in the Middle Ages anymore and that is one of them.

a reply to: greencmp

Not to mention (either) that made-up statistics are even less meaningful than real ones.

Estimates of Muslim Terrorists by the State Department: varies ... perhaps 100,000 worldwide, give or take a few thousand. (Source)

100,000/1,600,000,000 = 1/16,000

1/16,000 1/10

EDIT: Correction.

Let's perform an experiment as an entire forum. For the next month (or better still, the rest of your life), when you're watching the news, and a news story makes you angry, or scared, or upset, stop listening for a moment and think: why did I just get angry? How did a news reporter invoke an emotional response in me? Is there a reason why they'd like me to be angry? Because honestly, news should be a passive thing; they convey information to you, and then you internalize it and emotionally digest it according to your own internal morals. Was it your own internal process that triggered the emotion, or was it the presentation?

When the news is trying to make you have an emotional response, they are playing with psychology. They are purposely triggering reactions within you so that the news will hit you from the angle they desire. That isn't news, it's propaganda. So for the next month (lifetime) do a double take every time you get angry at a news report, and figure out what's really happening there.

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

The replies I have read that you have written blames non-Muslims for being afraid of Muslims. Well I think I put forth a very cogent statement on why your anger is misplaced, in my previous post.
The anger at people who are afraid of Muslims is very misplaced.
It is Muslims using the name of Allah and Mohammed who have done the damage to the reputation of the enlightened, good, and modern Muslim.
Non-Muslims have real and concrete reasons to fear. And the fear comes from the actions of Muslims themselves, that is where your anger needs to be directed.

More fallacious posting:

Being Liberal has nothing to do with "defending Muslims."

I'm sure there that you meant to say "Muslim Terrorists," right?

I'm sure you are in favor of religious freedom for Americans, right?

Your percentages are meaningless, if you're talking about facts. See above link.

Do you have any hard data sources (i.e. not opinion blogs) that you're basing your comments on?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: chuck258
I don't generalize, I am only defending the feelings of those that do. If peaceful Muslims have a right to complain about discrimination (I would argue that they do), then so do gun owners. The rhetoric needs to tone down on both sides and we need to agree what the true enemy is (ISIS and other extremists), CALL THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE, terrorists (Which Obama is now refusing to do), and fight against them (we are doing the bare minimum).

Actually Obama is refusing to call them Muslim terrorists. He still calls them terrorists.

The problem is, the label of being a gun owner or right winger can carry life altering consequences, gun store owners stores are being shut down by the IRS, people are calling the cops on those who choose to carry in hoping they get 'SWATTED", new laws are being continually passed that attempt further restriction at lawful gun ownership, and our very own president has voiced his dis-taste for guns and is using 100% of his authority to further his agenda.

Do you think life for a Muslim in America is any different. Where you can be stopped and questioned about your travels just because your name sounds Middle Eastern? Where people post large rants on message boards saying your people are trying to overrun the country? If you know how this feels then stop making threads like your OP.

Let's see what Muslims are facing in this country: A few random hate crimes (not insignificant, mind you), being told their religion is terroristic. . . . thats about it, but at the same time many of the Right Wingers that own the guns I mentioned above also face that and are persecuted even more so (IE the Mayor of Houston demanding church sermons, the government trying to tax churches based on attendance, atheist groups attempting to sue churches for 'defrauding' the local government.

Uh... That is a very narrow definition of what is happening to Muslims. If you believe otherwise then you are SERIOUSLY biased.

Anti-Muslim Bigotry

Anti-Christianism in America:
defendchristians.org...
www.alliancedefendingfreedom.org...
www.thenewamerican.com...

I'm not going to look for anymore simply because you are to lazy too.

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

This post is far too reasonable and well-thought out.

You must be a Liberal Muslim Sympathizer.

(Actually, great post.)

a reply to: chuck258

There you go-using logic.

you islamobigophiracist!

a reply to: grandmakdw

Maybe Non-Muslims in the Middle East, but you certainly have nothing to fear from them here in the states or in Europe. The odds of you dying from a terrorist attack are so laughably low, they aren't even worth thinking about. Your bathtub is more dangerous than terrorism.

Your fears are misplaced. There are things WAY worse than Muslim extremists in this world and worrying about that non-threat is distracting you from them.
Mexican drug cartels are worse than ISIL

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: grandmakdw

Maybe Non-Muslims in the Middle East, but you certainly have nothing to fear from them here in the states or in Europe. The odds of you dying from a terrorist attack are so laughably low, they aren't even worth thinking about. Your bathtub is more dangerous than terrorism.

Your fears are misplaced. There are things WAY worse than Muslim extremists in this world and worrying about that non-threat is distracting you from them.
Mexican drug cartels are worse than ISIL

And Mexican drug cartels are on the same continent as us!

But seriously, don't be scared of Mexican drug cartels either.

a reply to: chuck258

What are you trying to prove here? That Christian bigotry exists? Because I never said it doesn't. My link is SPECIFICALLY about xenophobia that has arisen around Muslims thanks to this constant barrage of xenophobic "news" we are getting. This was a direct counter point to you claiming that gun owners have it tough thanks to all the anti-gun sentiment in the country recently. Christians have nothing to do with either of those cases, so your point is irrelevant and useless.