The Myth of the Good Guy With a Gun

The state of Florida brought in Concealed carry.....
In the FIRST YEAR....The armed citizen actually stopped more criminal acts than the police did.....get the picture?
Its TROLL threads from people in other countries about American values that piss me off.....and im a Canadian....
The UK can do what it wants but butt out of others business....
Its was the weapons America possessed that freed the country from egregious foreign domination.....
It was the need to uphold the rule of law which kept these peoples armed....
They do NOT need further bad advice from foreign non citizens as to how and what they should think, and what they should do..... thank you very much......I see that your own cops are carrying more weapons over there....Should Americans be trying to disarm your Bobbies once again like they used to be....I don't think so....that's YOUR business....
Your influence is neither wanted nor appreciated....

This thread is a perfect example that critical thinking is a rare commodity.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: budski

Some things society needs, some things some people just want.

I'm sure the citizens of Poland needed some firearms in 1939.

I'm sure that if guns hadn't been invented in the first place the people of Poland would have been OK.

So now you're advocating against scientific advancement in order to keep people safe. I guess all those asteroid detecting telescopes are out the window too, since they're a direct result of man's discovery of gunpowder, which begat propulsion, which begat rockets, which birthed the space program, which eventually launched these potentially humanity-saving devices into space.

Or do you WANT us all to die in a horrific meteoric holocaust?

You monster.

The original use of gunpowder was for fireworks.
They didn't have the chemistry in the earliest forms of gunpowder to make it viable for firing projectiles. That came later.
It says a lot that a quick burning chemical compound (which is what it originally was) has been co-opted by the inventors of guns.

There's also the fact that chemical rockets are hugely inefficient, and that alternative ways of getting into space have been ignored as man focuses on more efficient ways to kill each other.

As you lot are so fond of saying: FAIL.

You have inside knowledge of a method of orbital insertion that's more efficient than chemical rockets?! Why are you here talking about guns when you should be at NASA or the ESA as head of development on this new, revolutionary, and more efficient rocket design! Go, man! Save humanity!

There are many alternatives that we could have been actively pursuing were it not for the obsession with weapons.

You know it, I know it, but being facetious makes you feel clever.
I'm pleased for you.
Carry on.

So, you suppose that NO scientific endeavors are going on or have been going on to find an alternative to chemical rockets?
Who is being facetious here???

You are.
Are you trying to tell me that those same scientific endeavours would not be more advanced if the US had not spent hundreds of billions on procurement for a new plane that barely works?

Have a word with yourself.

Nah, I'll have another word with you.

There are many alternatives that we could have been actively pursuing were it not for the obsession with weapons.

You say we could have been. As if we haven't been actively pursuing them..... just because of an obsession with weapons. You wrote it...
Now if you wanted to say something else in the first place.... you should have said it.

Nope, I stand by what I said.

We could have been using the trillions spent on instruments of war.
We haven't.
Instead, the NASA budget got cut year on year on year.

We could have engineered an orbital factory to make ships to go to other planets and explore the solar system
Sadly, we didn't because the moon shot was just cold war PR about beating the Soviets.

We could have listened to people like Carl Sagan.
Instead, we built more weapons of destruction.

I agree with what you are saying. The only problem is what happens in reality and constantly throughout history is the big advanced bullies will conquer you if you can't defend yourself. So the arms race starts out as a defense and just keeps going with each side advancing weapons at a steady pace. When one gets superior is when the bad stuff happens. As sad as it is the arms race is what keeps people in check. If the us and Europe stopped building guns you would be conquered and forced into a different lifestyle or worse.

Unfortunately we can't evolve past this primitive way of thinking. But its the thinking part not the guns that has to change. Change the thought and the guns will be benign like they are in cultures like switzerland.

We (humans) think people wanting to put themselves above others is normal.
It's not, unless that person suffers from a psychiatric condition.

Huh? This happens in the WHOLE of the animal kingdom. Hence the term "alpha". There always has to be a leader. It is VERY natural and instinctive. There is no psychiatric condition associated with that at all. The weak die, the strong survive in all aspects of life. It is for a reason....so that species is able to continue.

What you are speaking of would actually go against ALL scientific proof of how animals in groups behave. There is a pecking order, and when you challenge that pecking order you either win or you are put in your place, sometimes killed.

ahh, so in your view we are not sentient creatures capable of making our own choices and decisions, but simply animals bound by instinct.

That makes sense reading your posts.

You are also completely wrong, there doesn't always have to be a leader.
That's your programming speaking again.

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: budski

Some things society needs, some things some people just want.

I'm sure the citizens of Poland needed some firearms in 1939.

I'm sure that if guns hadn't been invented in the first place the people of Poland would have been OK.

So now you're advocating against scientific advancement in order to keep people safe. I guess all those asteroid detecting telescopes are out the window too, since they're a direct result of man's discovery of gunpowder, which begat propulsion, which begat rockets, which birthed the space program, which eventually launched these potentially humanity-saving devices into space.

Or do you WANT us all to die in a horrific meteoric holocaust?

You monster.

The original use of gunpowder was for fireworks.
They didn't have the chemistry in the earliest forms of gunpowder to make it viable for firing projectiles. That came later.
It says a lot that a quick burning chemical compound (which is what it originally was) has been co-opted by the inventors of guns.

There's also the fact that chemical rockets are hugely inefficient, and that alternative ways of getting into space have been ignored as man focuses on more efficient ways to kill each other.

As you lot are so fond of saying: FAIL.

You have inside knowledge of a method of orbital insertion that's more efficient than chemical rockets?! Why are you here talking about guns when you should be at NASA or the ESA as head of development on this new, revolutionary, and more efficient rocket design! Go, man! Save humanity!

There are many alternatives that we could have been actively pursuing were it not for the obsession with weapons.

You know it, I know it, but being facetious makes you feel clever.
I'm pleased for you.
Carry on.

So, you suppose that NO scientific endeavors are going on or have been going on to find an alternative to chemical rockets?
Who is being facetious here???

You are.
Are you trying to tell me that those same scientific endeavours would not be more advanced if the US had not spent hundreds of billions on procurement for a new plane that barely works?

Have a word with yourself.

Nah, I'll have another word with you.

There are many alternatives that we could have been actively pursuing were it not for the obsession with weapons.

You say we could have been. As if we haven't been actively pursuing them..... just because of an obsession with weapons. You wrote it...
Now if you wanted to say something else in the first place.... you should have said it.

Nope, I stand by what I said.

We could have been using the trillions spent on instruments of war.
We haven't.
Instead, the NASA budget got cut year on year on year.

We could have engineered an orbital factory to make ships to go to other planets and explore the solar system
Sadly, we didn't because the moon shot was just cold war PR about beating the Soviets.

We could have listened to people like Carl Sagan.
Instead, we built more weapons of destruction.

Where is the "We" in your post coming from. Your OP is based on the US. As far as I can tell, you are not "We".

You speak of NASA as if it is based out of your country....it isn't. You speak of the moon landing as if it had anything to do with your country.....it didn't.

So if we take away ALL the things the WE did, there wouldn't be much left for YOU to talk about would there?

Why the interest in US gun debates if you are not even in the US? I am here. I know the rules and what is actually going on in the US. I follow them. I own guns, and I own them for a reason.

"We"

As in We Humans.

Are you saying you're not a human?

I am very human.

You are using "We" in your post I quoted as if you are in the US, just as you did with your OP on guns...but you are not. How is it "We" when everything you posted was about US based operations?

I get that you are trying to somehow relate yourself to the US, but you are not here and are acting as if you know what things are like here. I can guarantee that your perception of what it is like here is way off.

WE don't run around shooting guns off everywhere just because WE have them.

WE do have the right to have guns if WE want to, regardless of what anyone in any other country would like to say about it.

WE are responsible gun owners.

WE do not contribute to the violent crimes/deaths in the US each year.

WE pay the taxes that back organizations like NASA.

WE pay the taxes that put people on the moon.

WE, as in the US.....and WE are humans too.

a reply to: stirling

Its TROLL threads from people in other countries about American values that piss me off.....and im a Canadian....

Right on, Northern Brotha!



How's that for gun nut back slapping, budski?

originally posted by: budski
You are also completely wrong, there doesn't always have to be a leader.
That's your programming speaking again.

Google "dominance hierarchy "

Dude, seriously, it's bed time. You jumped the shark.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I really wish you could see how much I am laughing at this.

YOU are a human, everything you think your arbitrary collection of borders achieved was done on the back of HUMAN knowledge going back centuries.

I'll admit that YOU kidnapped German scientists because your own weren't up to the job, but those German Scientists knowledge came from the sum of human knowledge accumulated over centuries before your arbitrary collection of borders ever existed.

YOU have guns because of a mistaken belief that strength is the ultimate power, and YOU want to be like your government.

But for a long time the US has turned its back on learning as can be seen in universities where the focus is on power sports rather than learning with sports coaches earning more than even the most brilliant scientists, so I can understand why you have made this false assumption about power and how you can gain it from the barrel of a gun.

Remember though, that all empires fall, that China is now the worlds biggest economy and that this is because they value knowledge and learning over power.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: stirling

Its TROLL threads from people in other countries about American values that piss me off.....and im a Canadian....

Right on, Northern Brotha!

How's that for gun nut back slapping, budski?

At least you have a sense of humour (by the way, that's how it's really spelt, there being no such thing as "american" english) lol

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: budski
You are also completely wrong, there doesn't always have to be a leader.
That's your programming speaking again.

Google "dominance hierarchy "

Dude, seriously, it's bed time. You jumped the shark.

Bless your little cotton socks that you are unable to question your programming.

It's alright mate, it really is.
One day you'll learn that it really doesn't have to be that way.

Thread's dead....you lost the original argument and are now just going on off topic tangents.....typical.

I look forward to your next anti US whatever thread so I can pick it apart as well.

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: budski
You are also completely wrong, there doesn't always have to be a leader.
That's your programming speaking again.

Google "dominance hierarchy "

Dude, seriously, it's bed time. You jumped the shark.

Bless your little cotton socks that you are unable to question your programming.

It's alright mate, it really is.
One day you'll learn that it really doesn't have to be that way.

LOL, Don't tell me, tell the lions.

Programming......Bwahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Thread's dead....you lost the original argument and are now just going on off topic tangents.....typical.

I look forward to your next anti US whatever thread so I can pick it apart as well.

haha, you have no answers so you resort to this?

The human condition that you say means you require guns is a reflection on the society we live in, but I don't wonder that you would rather not discuss what might make you question your value system.

It's ALL relevant, and a modicum of understanding of the subject is why I don't let people like you rile me.

a reply to: budski

OH sure there are.
POISONS ,flamable stuff ,KNIVES just use your imagination ...like you are thinking you make a difference to Americans from Quebec of ALL places.

Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and call the death of this thread. It's basically devolved into "US BAD EVERYONE ELSE GUD" ad-hominem declarations and obvious trolling. See you all in the next thread!

a reply to: budski

Obviously you are British same as me.
Look I used to think like you until I understood it is part of their culture and many actually need guns because of wild animals (human ones also).
What is the point of this eh? we here don't have a gun culture and while Iam happy of that I respect the USAers here and their culture.
Why attempt to cause division? we and the USAers are the best of pals.
I would back them up in a fight and they would back me up.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: budski
You are also completely wrong, there doesn't always have to be a leader.
That's your programming speaking again.

Google "dominance hierarchy "

Dude, seriously, it's bed time. You jumped the shark.

Bless your little cotton socks that you are unable to question your programming.

It's alright mate, it really is.
One day you'll learn that it really doesn't have to be that way.

LOL, Don't tell me, tell the lions.

Programming......Bwahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, are you saying that you are a non sentient animal incapable of making decisions and choices outside of those which you have been told you can make?

Interesting as well that you chose lions, because in a Lion society it is invariably the females that do everything whilst the male sits around scratching his arse until it is time to glut himself on the fruits of their labours.

Societal programming is nothing new.
You should try looking THAT up on wiki bwahahahaha

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Thread's dead....you lost the original argument and are now just going on off topic tangents.....typical.

I look forward to your next anti US whatever thread so I can pick it apart as well.

haha, you have no answers so you resort to this?

The human condition that you say means you require guns is a reflection on the society we live in, but I don't wonder that you would rather not discuss what might make you question your value system.

It's ALL relevant, and a modicum of understanding of the subject is why I don't let people like you rile me.

Answers to what? All of your off topic posts on your own thread? I answered all of your posts on your OP with stats to back it all up and shredded your argument to pieces. I haven't resorted to anything at all....if you'd like me to continue posting off topic responses to your off topic posts then I am happy to do so.

As for this thread's OP....it is done and proven BS.

Oh, and I perfectly understand the subject as I actually live in the country you are attempting to pretend you know something about.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Why attempt to cause division? we and the USAers are the best of pals. I would back them up in a fight and they would back me up.

Hooorah!!
And may I add, you got that stuff right!

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: budski

Obviously you are British same as me.
Look I used to think like you until I understood it is part of their culture and many actually need guns because of wild animals (human ones also).
What is the point of this eh? we here don't have a gun culture and while Iam happy of that I respect the USAers here and their culture.
Why attempt to cause division? we and the USAers are the best of pals.
I would back them up in a fight and they would back me up.

What you and many others fail to grasp is that I am looking at this from a different direction than you.

You seem to think that an arbitrary collection of lines on a map, known as borders equals cultural distinction, but this is clearly not the case.

I am looking at this from the point of a humanist who believes that needless death is bad and we should do what we can to avoid needless death instead of glorying in it.

I am looking at this from the point of view that if we used the money spent on weapons and wars, we would be a much more advanced society, especially if people would get rid of their imaginary friends known as gods.

It's really quite simple, and yet people can't seem to grasp it.

a reply to: budski

It's called nature. Since before dinosaurs were skinny at one end, fat in the middle, and skinny at the other end, there has been a hierarchy. This isn't up for debate or even interpretation by you. It's what we like to call science fact.

Your idealistic views of this Utopian society are indeed exciting. It's a shame you haven't a clue how the society you live in works.

Programmed. Yep. from ants to aardvarks. It was "them".