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The Myth of the Good Guy With a Gun

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posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:23 PM
link   

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: budski

Obviously you are British same as me.
Look I used to think like you until I understood it is part of their culture and many actually need guns because of wild animals (human ones also).
What is the point of this eh? we here don't have a gun culture and while Iam happy of that I respect the USAers here and their culture.
Why attempt to cause division? we and the USAers are the best of pals.
I would back them up in a fight and they would back me up.


What you and many others fail to grasp is that I am looking at this from a different direction than you.

You seem to think that an arbitrary collection of lines on a map, known as borders equals cultural distinction, but this is clearly not the case.

I am looking at this from the point of a humanist who believes that needless death is bad and we should do what we can to avoid needless death instead of glorying in it.

I am looking at this from the point of view that if we used the money spent on weapons and wars, we would be a much more advanced society, especially if people would get rid of their imaginary friends known as gods.

It's really quite simple, and yet people can't seem to grasp it.


OK....here is a relevant question. You are obviously a Utopian.....you claim ALL these things that humans are and are not. You give scenarios about them and attempt to prove some point.

Let me ask....at any point in the entire history of Earth, has there EVER been a Utopia on record?

Nope...therefore what you are saying about humans in general is incorrect. Had there ever BEEN a Utopia, then it would still BE a Utopia since, as you say, humans are sentient and have none of the animal instincts that other species have.

Ridiculous argument yet again......
edit on 2/12/15 by Vasa Croe because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: stirling



Its TROLL threads from people in other countries about American values that piss me off.....and im a Canadian....

Right on, Northern Brotha!



How's that for gun nut back slapping, budski?


At least you have a sense of humour
(by the way, that's how it's really spelt, there being no such thing as "american" english) lol

This ice cream says that you are wrong!!!!




posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: budski

It' called nature. Since before dinosaurs were skinny at one end, fat in the middle, and skinny at the other end, there has been a hierarchy. This isn't up for debate or even interpretation by you. It's what we like to call science fact.

Your idealistic views of this Utopian society are indeed exciting. It's a shame you haven't a clue how the society you live in works.

Programmed. Yep. from ants to aardvarks. It was "them".


There's no such thing as "nature".
It's a made up word that people use to indicate something without any real meaning.

Ants have a queen, but the queen has no real power, she just gets tended and lays eggs, and she lays eggs to ensure the continuation of her species, which is her biological imperative.
The real power lies with the workers, because without them, the queen could not survive, even though nominally at least, she is the head of the so called hierarchy.

We are evolved animals, who can make conscious choices to better our society, we are supposed to be sentient, but today that means nothing more than people are able to recognise themselves in a mirror.
Most of western society has given up making choices, and relies on what government and the media tells them.
This is programming.

Given the choice, would you work 40 hours a week in a meaningless job that only enriches those further up the chain, or would you live in a technologically advanced society that existed for the betterment of all?



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: budski

It' called nature. Since before dinosaurs were skinny at one end, fat in the middle, and skinny at the other end, there has been a hierarchy. This isn't up for debate or even interpretation by you. It's what we like to call science fact.

Your idealistic views of this Utopian society are indeed exciting. It's a shame you haven't a clue how the society you live in works.

Programmed. Yep. from ants to aardvarks. It was "them".


That was great Monty Python skit! Eh-hem!




posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:29 PM
link   
a reply to: greencmp

Yea, I couldn't come up with a way to clear the throat properly.

But It's my theory, and you can't have it!



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: stirling



Its TROLL threads from people in other countries about American values that piss me off.....and im a Canadian....

Right on, Northern Brotha!



How's that for gun nut back slapping, budski?


At least you have a sense of humour
(by the way, that's how it's really spelt, there being no such thing as "american" english) lol


Maybe check your history on the English language when you are researching whatever sometime.....English in England came from the Germans when they invaded...



English is primarily a West Germanic language that originated from the Anglo-Frisian dialects and was brought to Britain by Germanic invaders or settlers from what is now called North West Germany and the Netherlands. It uses a vocabulary unlike other European languages of the same era. A large portion of the modern English vocabulary came from the Anglo-Norman languages. English is considered a "borrowing" language.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: budski

Obviously you are British same as me.
Look I used to think like you until I understood it is part of their culture and many actually need guns because of wild animals (human ones also).
What is the point of this eh? we here don't have a gun culture and while Iam happy of that I respect the USAers here and their culture.
Why attempt to cause division? we and the USAers are the best of pals.
I would back them up in a fight and they would back me up.


What you and many others fail to grasp is that I am looking at this from a different direction than you.

You seem to think that an arbitrary collection of lines on a map, known as borders equals cultural distinction, but this is clearly not the case.

I am looking at this from the point of a humanist who believes that needless death is bad and we should do what we can to avoid needless death instead of glorying in it.

I am looking at this from the point of view that if we used the money spent on weapons and wars, we would be a much more advanced society, especially if people would get rid of their imaginary friends known as gods.

It's really quite simple, and yet people can't seem to grasp it.


OK....here is a relevant question. You are obviously a Utopian.....you claim ALL these things that humans are and are not. You give scenarios about them and attempt to prove some point.

Let me ask....at any point in the entire history of Earth, has there EVER been a Utopia on record?

Nope...therefore what you are saying about humans in general is incorrect. Had there ever BEEN a Utopia, then it would still BE a Utopia since, as you say, humans are sentient and have none of the animal instincts that other species have.

Ridiculous argument yet again......


There's nothing utopian about it.

It's a stage of societal evolution that is inevitable.

Realise that once you know money is meaningless, that your job has no value and even that the mortgage you have is nothing more than electrons conjured out of thin air by a bank, society will change.

These ideas that you buy into, about competition, perpetual economic growth and being a wage slave are nothing more than the ideas of those who created a system and use it to put themselves above others.
In this system you cannot win. There is NO american dream. It's all a scam.

Now try looking at the strengths of a resource based economy and society, where the technology exists to feed and educate every single human on the planet, where you are not bound by a 9-5 job, where there are no politicians, and where you are neither below nor above others, but simply "you".



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:31 PM
link   
a reply to: budski

I think what we can all take away from this is that

guns don't kill people, Chuck Norris kills people.

Oh, and there is no such thing as a Utopian society. (except in fairy tails)



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:32 PM
link   
a reply to: budski

Of course we would but this is not how you come across you just come across as someone with an axe to grind against the many responsible gun owners in the USA.
Not one of us would not want to stop wars but even If we did people in some places would still need guns.
Plus the fact when Aliens come down to say Hi (or eat us) we may have to use those weapons to make sure we survive.
edit on 12-2-2015 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:33 PM
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A fact or three.

Violent crime rate is down about 47% since 1990 in the United States (source is the FBI). Murder is down about 50%.



Gun ownership has not changed much according to Gallup. It is down a bit.



Firearm Homicide Deaths are down about half during the same period.



Accidental Firearm Deaths are down quite a bit.



A little about the UK.



"The Myth of the Good Guy With a Gun"


I think studies find whatever the biased person(s) conducting them wish to find when it's an emotionally, ideologically or politically driven topic.

That highly biased Slate article cites studies you have to pay to read and ignores the falling violent crime rates and falling rates of Firearm Homicide deaths. I suspect that neither ownership of guns nor lack of guns is as important to violent crime rates as suggested. I doubt a control was used in any way since the purpose of studies of this kind is to push an ideological agenda.

I personally have no issue with the idea of not allowing sales of guns to the mentally ill or those who have been previously convicted of violent crime. To withhold them from others though is based on fear and prejudging people base on emotion rather than facts.

I've always had a hunting rifle around being raised around farms and ranches where the meat from wild game was an important part of the families income. Money is/was always scarce for those who actually feed the country. As a young person I recall times when we could not afford to eat the meat we raised ourselves. There is certainly nothing wrong with a more natural lifestyle eating a humans normal diet which includes wild game. It's not for everyone and certainly not for those raised in cities away from nature who have a fear of tools like guns used safely by others.

I've always had a handgun for home protection and when in the wild for bear protection. Only a fool enters Brown Bear territory without protection, but we do see fools here in Alaska now and then. The now famous fellow who's last video was of him being eaten by the cute misunderstood Brown Bears comes to mind. Some I'm sure remember that.

Even though I've never been in the military, I have been shot at three times and grazed on the arm once. The scariest was while at a park enjoying the day and a Mexican gang drove by firing bullets at anyone there for fun. They were a group of illegals who dealt drugs who lived near me at the time. Almost killed my little cousin and I had to grab him and dive behind a log. I have one time used a handgun to protect my home. Without it my wife at that time and I would have been dead I have no doubt. Another time it was a nut trying to scare me away from a residential construction project because he did not want neighbors and we were building a home.

Guns in the wrong hands are clearly a bad idea. Denying them to people like hunters, target shooters and those who keep them for home protection is just kneejerk nonsense from those who are either afraid of inanimate objects or following an agenda handed to them by their political party or local culture.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:33 PM
link   
a reply to: budski

Who would lead such a place?
NAME ONE person who you trust to do so.
A.I. no way Hacking
SO WHAT is your answer as a socialist society REQUIRES a good leader for it to exist or it turns into HUNGARY during the cold war.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:34 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: stirling



Its TROLL threads from people in other countries about American values that piss me off.....and im a Canadian....

Right on, Northern Brotha!



How's that for gun nut back slapping, budski?


At least you have a sense of humour
(by the way, that's how it's really spelt, there being no such thing as "american" english) lol


Maybe check your history on the English language when you are researching whatever sometime.....English in England came from the Germans when they invaded...



English is primarily a West Germanic language that originated from the Anglo-Frisian dialects and was brought to Britain by Germanic invaders or settlers from what is now called North West Germany and the Netherlands. It uses a vocabulary unlike other European languages of the same era. A large portion of the modern English vocabulary came from the Anglo-Norman languages. English is considered a "borrowing" language.




hahahaha

English, as invented by the English is a mxture of languages ranging from Norse, to Romance languages to High German, changing over centuries (that's what we call "History" ) to become modern English, complete with correct spellings.

Your attempt to appropriate it by calling it "American" English is nonsense.
Just call it what it is man.
I promise it won't hurt.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: budski

It' called nature. Since before dinosaurs were skinny at one end, fat in the middle, and skinny at the other end, there has been a hierarchy. This isn't up for debate or even interpretation by you. It's what we like to call science fact.

Your idealistic views of this Utopian society are indeed exciting. It's a shame you haven't a clue how the society you live in works.

Programmed. Yep. from ants to aardvarks. It was "them".


There's no such thing as "nature".
It's a made up word that people use to indicate something without any real meaning.

Ants have a queen, but the queen has no real power, she just gets tended and lays eggs, and she lays eggs to ensure the continuation of her species, which is her biological imperative.
The real power lies with the workers, because without them, the queen could not survive, even though nominally at least, she is the head of the so called hierarchy.

We are evolved animals, who can make conscious choices to better our society, we are supposed to be sentient, but today that means nothing more than people are able to recognise themselves in a mirror.
Most of western society has given up making choices, and relies on what government and the media tells them.
This is programming.

Given the choice, would you work 40 hours a week in a meaningless job that only enriches those further up the chain, or would you live in a technologically advanced society that existed for the betterment of all?


So how do you explain the remains of cavemen that have obvious marks of being in a fight and dying from wounds from those fights? There was no government back then, no media, most likely didn't even know anyone outside their own tribe. Yet somehow they were killed by another being just like themselves.

Are you suggesting that we had these instincts back then, but should have lost them in between then and now, but they were programmed back in by the big bad government and media?

Crushed skulls and arrows in bones do not suggest a Utopia. They suggest conflict. And conflict that has occurred since the beginning of time in ALL animals.

For you to say that humans are not part of this group is nothing but pure ignorance. We are not some super animal that is above the way nature made us. We are subject to instinct and emotion.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:36 PM
link   
a reply to: Blaine91555

A very metered and thoughtful post. Take all of my stars.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:37 PM
link   

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: budski

Who would lead such a place?
NAME ONE person who you trust to do so.
A.I. no way Hacking
SO WHAT is your answer as a socialist society REQUIRES a good leader for it to exist or it turns into HUNGARY during the cold war.


Why does there have to be a leader?
In a society where everyone is educated and there are no politicians, why can't there be a simple consensus of opinion?

Again, you are bound by your programming.
You have to think in terms of a whole new paradigm that doesn't involve power over others, and is technologically advanced.

It's coming at some point, so either you or your kids need to get used to the idea.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:40 PM
link   
a reply to: budski

I live in the here and now, not some research paper on how society could run perfectly based on a model that has never been tested and was thought up by some fresh almost grad student.

Love the thought of Utopia, but it will NEVER happen and to think it could is naive at best.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:40 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: budski

It' called nature. Since before dinosaurs were skinny at one end, fat in the middle, and skinny at the other end, there has been a hierarchy. This isn't up for debate or even interpretation by you. It's what we like to call science fact.

Your idealistic views of this Utopian society are indeed exciting. It's a shame you haven't a clue how the society you live in works.

Programmed. Yep. from ants to aardvarks. It was "them".


There's no such thing as "nature".
It's a made up word that people use to indicate something without any real meaning.

Ants have a queen, but the queen has no real power, she just gets tended and lays eggs, and she lays eggs to ensure the continuation of her species, which is her biological imperative.
The real power lies with the workers, because without them, the queen could not survive, even though nominally at least, she is the head of the so called hierarchy.

We are evolved animals, who can make conscious choices to better our society, we are supposed to be sentient, but today that means nothing more than people are able to recognise themselves in a mirror.
Most of western society has given up making choices, and relies on what government and the media tells them.
This is programming.

Given the choice, would you work 40 hours a week in a meaningless job that only enriches those further up the chain, or would you live in a technologically advanced society that existed for the betterment of all?


So how do you explain the remains of cavemen that have obvious marks of being in a fight and dying from wounds from those fights? There was no government back then, no media, most likely didn't even know anyone outside their own tribe. Yet somehow they were killed by another being just like themselves.

Are you suggesting that we had these instincts back then, but should have lost them in between then and now, but they were programmed back in by the big bad government and media?

Crushed skulls and arrows in bones do not suggest a Utopia. They suggest conflict. And conflict that has occurred since the beginning of time in ALL animals.

For you to say that humans are not part of this group is nothing but pure ignorance. We are not some super animal that is above the way nature made us. We are subject to instinct and emotion.


So according to you, the last few thousand years haven't happened, and we have learned nothing from them.

In your world, we will never evolve past this stage and into a species that values learning and personal growth, instead we will be trapped on this merry go round of death and destruction, with no escape ever and we will always be this way because according to you, humans cannot learn and grow.

I'm very glad I don't live in your world.
How very depressing it must be.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:42 PM
link   

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: stirling



Its TROLL threads from people in other countries about American values that piss me off.....and im a Canadian....

Right on, Northern Brotha!



How's that for gun nut back slapping, budski?


At least you have a sense of humour
(by the way, that's how it's really spelt, there being no such thing as "american" english) lol


Maybe check your history on the English language when you are researching whatever sometime.....English in England came from the Germans when they invaded...



English is primarily a West Germanic language that originated from the Anglo-Frisian dialects and was brought to Britain by Germanic invaders or settlers from what is now called North West Germany and the Netherlands. It uses a vocabulary unlike other European languages of the same era. A large portion of the modern English vocabulary came from the Anglo-Norman languages. English is considered a "borrowing" language.




hahahaha

English, as invented by the English is a mxture of languages ranging from Norse, to Romance languages to High German, changing over centuries (that's what we call "History" ) to become modern English, complete with correct spellings.

Your attempt to appropriate it by calling it "American" English is nonsense.
Just call it what it is man.
I promise it won't hurt.


Not calling it American English.....I could care less. Just pointing out that you are again wrong if you believe that your English language was something you came up with. It came from the Germans that invaded and forced their language on the English which then adopted it and changed it to their own dialect over time.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:43 PM
link   
a reply to: budski

With all your hopes and dreams of this place where free love and no wars exists, and there is no need for leaders or structure in any way, you fail to factor in the one part of the equation that will screw your plans every time. The human factor. Unless you have a way to make people stop begin people, and you can remove greed from man's thought process, you have a pipe dream. (actually, you really do just have a pipe dream, there is not basis in reality at all for your thought process)

But if Boymonkey74 comes to my neck of the woods, I'll take him shooting and show him how to defend himself against the beer can army I am certain will attack at any given moment.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: budski

I live in the here and now, not some research paper on how society could run perfectly based on a model that has never been tested and was thought up by some fresh almost grad student.

Love the thought of Utopia, but it will NEVER happen and to think it could is naive at best.


It's odd that you say you live in the "here and now" because that's not really true.
You live in a construct of the ideal that the media have told you is the american dream.

It's a good job the great thinkers of history didn't take this attitude, or we would be even further from a real civilisation than we are now.

This is a fact: Either the human race will change, or it will end.



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