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The Myth of the Good Guy With a Gun

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posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: budski
a reply to: Vasa Croe


You haven't shown jack.

All you've done is post data and then tried to use it to fit the facts you want to show, which is exactly what you keep accusing me of, when it's just not true.

Show where the increase of registered weapons is primarily handguns.
There is absolutely nothing in your figures to show this.

Without that data, your claims are simply nonsense because there is no correlation.
These are your rules, I'm just abiding by them.



Your argument is really ignorant here. You are the one stating in the original OP that more guns = more death and you can't even show a stat on that.

You ask for evidence of something YOU stated and started a thread on?

Show me YOUR stat from any recognized US based data source on the number of guns increasing relates to the number of deaths by guns increasing.....your OP not mine. I have clearly shown where you are wrong in your statement based on nothing more than an article which you clearly did not read thoroughly.

I would suggest that this thread is based on a false premise and is simply trolling.


All the stats were in the article.
You chose to pick one part out of many and ignore all others, so to me that makes your arguments worthless.




posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: budski


Stupid people allow this to happen. I don't.


Stupid criminals and irresponsible gun owners allow gun deaths to occur. I don't.




posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski


I freely admit this is idealistic, but again, what's wrong with wanting the world to be a better place for everybody?


Are you simply unaware of world history prior to the advent of the firearm? Violence has always been a thing. Removing a tool, in this case firearms, from the equation will likely have little to no measurable effect on statistics regarding violence.


a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.

Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.


Then wouldn't it be accurate to say that since firearms are the easiest way to subjugate others, that firearms are the easiest way to ensure freedom from same subjugation?

Wouldn't it be accurate to say that since guns make the control mechanism easier to implement, that guns are the easiest way to resist that control mechanism?



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski


Stupid people allow this to happen. I don't.


Stupid criminals and irresponsible gun owners allow gun deaths to occur. I don't.



guns in huge amounts in society allow it to happen.

No guns, no gun problem.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:07 PM
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a reply to: budski


a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.

Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.


Bro, do you even logic?



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski


a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.

Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.


Bro, do you even logic?



It's like a train wreck. I can't help but look. I want to stop replying, but I just can't resist.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: amicktd

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: budski

It's not idealistic it's tyrannical.


So wanting the world in general to be a safer place is tyrannical.

Yeah, that makes sense.


The problem is that if you ban guns, you only take them away from the people who would use them responsibly. If you knew anything about America you would know that guns would still be available to anyone with cruel intentions.


I did in fact say earlier that this is an idealistic view.

You could also say that the more violence there is in the world, the more people become immune to it and the devastation it causes.

You could also argue that this is a direct consequence of the monetary system we live in that pitches every person in competition with others rather than all people working together.

Borders, laws, governments in their present forms are set up to set people against each other, whilst the very few at the top reap all the rewards and manipulate societies for their own gain.

The gun industry is a case in point - it makes people fear each other, then it feeds off that fear and sells more guns because of it.

A gun is a tool of oppression dressed up as one of freedom, and until we as a species can move past the conditioning placed upon us by those who seek to put themselves above their fellow man, nothing will change.

I freely admit this is idealistic, but again, what's wrong with wanting the world to be a better place for everybody?


There is nothing wrong with wanting the world to be a better place. But, even if all guns could magically disappear nothing would change.

Just read this:

www.scientificamerican.com...
edit on 12-2-2015 by amicktd because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski


I freely admit this is idealistic, but again, what's wrong with wanting the world to be a better place for everybody?


Are you simply unaware of world history prior to the advent of the firearm? Violence has always been a thing. Removing a tool, in this case firearms, from the equation will likely have little to no measurable effect on statistics regarding violence.


a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.

Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.


Then wouldn't it be accurate to say that since firearms are the easiest way to subjugate others, that firearms are the easiest way to ensure freedom from same subjugation?

Wouldn't it be accurate to say that since guns make the control mechanism easier to implement, that guns are the easiest way to resist that control mechanism?


Only if you assume that private guns can take on a modern army, which they can't.

Coming back to the idealism, ALL guns should be gotten rid of.
Not just those that belong to citizens.
And while we're at it, why not just get rid of those arbitrary borders that cause so much conflict and move to a resource based technological society. And by society, I mean humans not societies governed by arbitrary borders.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski


Stupid people allow this to happen. I don't.


Stupid criminals and irresponsible gun owners allow gun deaths to occur. I don't.



guns in huge amounts in society allow it to happen.

No guns, no gun problem.


I submit that in that light, no food=no food poisoning. (WIN!) no doctors=no malpractice (WIN!) no forks=no forks stuck in kids eyes. (WIN!)

You make me smile.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski


I freely admit this is idealistic, but again, what's wrong with wanting the world to be a better place for everybody?


Are you simply unaware of world history prior to the advent of the firearm? Violence has always been a thing. Removing a tool, in this case firearms, from the equation will likely have little to no measurable effect on statistics regarding violence.


a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.

Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.


Then wouldn't it be accurate to say that since firearms are the easiest way to subjugate others, that firearms are the easiest way to ensure freedom from same subjugation?

Wouldn't it be accurate to say that since guns make the control mechanism easier to implement, that guns are the easiest way to resist that control mechanism?


Only if you assume that private guns can take on a modern army, which they can't.

Coming back to the idealism, ALL guns should be gotten rid of.
Not just those that belong to citizens.
And while we're at it, why not just get rid of those arbitrary borders that cause so much conflict and move to a resource based technological society. And by society, I mean humans not societies governed by arbitrary borders.


Since we're discussing the United States, it will never happen. I can gurantee that the men and women in the military would be fighting right along side and training the citizens that do take up arms.

Also, history has proven time and time again that a smaller under equipped force can take on a larger and better equipped force.


You have no ground to stand on.
edit on 2/12/2015 by EternalSolace because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski


Stupid people allow this to happen. I don't.


Stupid criminals and irresponsible gun owners allow gun deaths to occur. I don't.



guns in huge amounts in society allow it to happen.

No guns, no gun problem.
I'd agree with you if we could magically make all the guns in the world disappear and somehow forget that things like long barrels, gunpowder, and lead existed.

But that won't happen. There will always be bad people with guns.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski


Stupid people allow this to happen. I don't.


Stupid criminals and irresponsible gun owners allow gun deaths to occur. I don't.



guns in huge amounts in society allow it to happen.

No guns, no gun problem.


I submit that in that light, no food=no food poisoning. (WIN!) no doctors=no malpractice (WIN!) no forks=no forks stuck in kids eyes. (WIN!)

You make me smile.


Patently silly, but funny nonetheless.

Some things society needs, some things some people just want.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:14 PM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski


I freely admit this is idealistic, but again, what's wrong with wanting the world to be a better place for everybody?


Are you simply unaware of world history prior to the advent of the firearm? Violence has always been a thing. Removing a tool, in this case firearms, from the equation will likely have little to no measurable effect on statistics regarding violence.


a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.

Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.


Then wouldn't it be accurate to say that since firearms are the easiest way to subjugate others, that firearms are the easiest way to ensure freedom from same subjugation?

Wouldn't it be accurate to say that since guns make the control mechanism easier to implement, that guns are the easiest way to resist that control mechanism?


Only if you assume that private guns can take on a modern army, which they can't.

Coming back to the idealism, ALL guns should be gotten rid of.
Not just those that belong to citizens.
And while we're at it, why not just get rid of those arbitrary borders that cause so much conflict and move to a resource based technological society. And by society, I mean humans not societies governed by arbitrary borders.


Since we're discussing the United States, it will never happen. I can gurantee that the men and women in the military would be fighting right along side and training the citizens that do take up arms.


You have no ground to stand on.


Yeah, just like Kent State.

This is another issue.
People have this very funny perception of the military standing up for their rights.
The military follow orders and the orders come indirectly from their corporate paymasters.

You might have been right about this when the revolution occurred, but it's no longer the case I'm afraid.
edit on 12/2/2015 by budski because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:14 PM
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originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: budski
a reply to: Vasa Croe


You haven't shown jack.

All you've done is post data and then tried to use it to fit the facts you want to show, which is exactly what you keep accusing me of, when it's just not true.

Show where the increase of registered weapons is primarily handguns.
There is absolutely nothing in your figures to show this.

Without that data, your claims are simply nonsense because there is no correlation.
These are your rules, I'm just abiding by them.



Your argument is really ignorant here. You are the one stating in the original OP that more guns = more death and you can't even show a stat on that.

You ask for evidence of something YOU stated and started a thread on?

Show me YOUR stat from any recognized US based data source on the number of guns increasing relates to the number of deaths by guns increasing.....your OP not mine. I have clearly shown where you are wrong in your statement based on nothing more than an article which you clearly did not read thoroughly.

I would suggest that this thread is based on a false premise and is simply trolling.


All the stats were in the article.
You chose to pick one part out of many and ignore all others, so to me that makes your arguments worthless.


Yes, they ARE all in that article with links which you seem to have failed to open and read. The article itself only takes bits and pieces that fit the authors agenda about guns when the links they provide completely disprove their statements.

Then you post the OP regurgitating the article without reading the links yourself.

I have shown the facts over and over in this thread and shown screenshots with sources that back my argument up.

You have shown nothing of your own research except an article that fits your agenda. You have referenced nothing but that article and one other that both show there is no correlation between more guns causing more violence/death.

I haven't picked one part of anything. You began this thread with a very broad statement of more guns=more death. I have shown you are wrong on ALL counts of that statement and even proven it with posts from your OWN OP article.

You are just one of those that can't admit when you are wrong about something it seems.

Anywho...I am out of this thread. I have thoroughly crushed your OP and there is no further need for me to continue. Carry on with your diatribe and drivel about something you appear to have no knowledge of nor live in the area you are complaining about.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: budski

Some things society needs, some things some people just want.



I'm sure the citizens of Poland needed some firearms in 1939.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: budski






posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: budski

Some things society needs, some things some people just want.



I'm sure the citizens of Poland needed some firearms in 1939.


I'm sure that if guns hadn't been invented in the first place the people of Poland would have been OK.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: budski

Some things society needs, some things some people just want.



I'm sure the citizens of Poland needed some firearms in 1939.


I'm sure that if guns hadn't been invented in the first place the people of Poland would have been OK.


But we aren't debating about the invention of the gun, are we?



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

Well, actually you did.

I posted stats from other sources and you completely ignored them, which is why I haven't taken any of your posts seriously.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: budski

Some things society needs, some things some people just want.



I'm sure the citizens of Poland needed some firearms in 1939.


I'm sure that if guns hadn't been invented in the first place the people of Poland would have been OK.


But we aren't debating about the invention of the gun, are we?


Might as well.
It goes back that far and is relevant.




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