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originally posted by: Vasa Croe
originally posted by: budski
a reply to: Vasa Croe
You haven't shown jack.
All you've done is post data and then tried to use it to fit the facts you want to show, which is exactly what you keep accusing me of, when it's just not true.
Show where the increase of registered weapons is primarily handguns.
There is absolutely nothing in your figures to show this.
Without that data, your claims are simply nonsense because there is no correlation.
These are your rules, I'm just abiding by them.
Your argument is really ignorant here. You are the one stating in the original OP that more guns = more death and you can't even show a stat on that.
You ask for evidence of something YOU stated and started a thread on?
Show me YOUR stat from any recognized US based data source on the number of guns increasing relates to the number of deaths by guns increasing.....your OP not mine. I have clearly shown where you are wrong in your statement based on nothing more than an article which you clearly did not read thoroughly.
I would suggest that this thread is based on a false premise and is simply trolling.
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski
I freely admit this is idealistic, but again, what's wrong with wanting the world to be a better place for everybody?
Are you simply unaware of world history prior to the advent of the firearm? Violence has always been a thing. Removing a tool, in this case firearms, from the equation will likely have little to no measurable effect on statistics regarding violence.
a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.
Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski
Stupid people allow this to happen. I don't.
Stupid criminals and irresponsible gun owners allow gun deaths to occur. I don't.
a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.
Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski
a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.
Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.
Bro, do you even logic?
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: amicktd
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: budski
It's not idealistic it's tyrannical.
So wanting the world in general to be a safer place is tyrannical.
Yeah, that makes sense.
The problem is that if you ban guns, you only take them away from the people who would use them responsibly. If you knew anything about America you would know that guns would still be available to anyone with cruel intentions.
I did in fact say earlier that this is an idealistic view.
You could also say that the more violence there is in the world, the more people become immune to it and the devastation it causes.
You could also argue that this is a direct consequence of the monetary system we live in that pitches every person in competition with others rather than all people working together.
Borders, laws, governments in their present forms are set up to set people against each other, whilst the very few at the top reap all the rewards and manipulate societies for their own gain.
The gun industry is a case in point - it makes people fear each other, then it feeds off that fear and sells more guns because of it.
A gun is a tool of oppression dressed up as one of freedom, and until we as a species can move past the conditioning placed upon us by those who seek to put themselves above their fellow man, nothing will change.
I freely admit this is idealistic, but again, what's wrong with wanting the world to be a better place for everybody?
originally posted by: EternalSolace
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski
I freely admit this is idealistic, but again, what's wrong with wanting the world to be a better place for everybody?
Are you simply unaware of world history prior to the advent of the firearm? Violence has always been a thing. Removing a tool, in this case firearms, from the equation will likely have little to no measurable effect on statistics regarding violence.
a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.
Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.
Then wouldn't it be accurate to say that since firearms are the easiest way to subjugate others, that firearms are the easiest way to ensure freedom from same subjugation?
Wouldn't it be accurate to say that since guns make the control mechanism easier to implement, that guns are the easiest way to resist that control mechanism?
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski
Stupid people allow this to happen. I don't.
Stupid criminals and irresponsible gun owners allow gun deaths to occur. I don't.
guns in huge amounts in society allow it to happen.
No guns, no gun problem.
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: EternalSolace
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski
I freely admit this is idealistic, but again, what's wrong with wanting the world to be a better place for everybody?
Are you simply unaware of world history prior to the advent of the firearm? Violence has always been a thing. Removing a tool, in this case firearms, from the equation will likely have little to no measurable effect on statistics regarding violence.
a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.
Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.
Then wouldn't it be accurate to say that since firearms are the easiest way to subjugate others, that firearms are the easiest way to ensure freedom from same subjugation?
Wouldn't it be accurate to say that since guns make the control mechanism easier to implement, that guns are the easiest way to resist that control mechanism?
Only if you assume that private guns can take on a modern army, which they can't.
Coming back to the idealism, ALL guns should be gotten rid of.
Not just those that belong to citizens.
And while we're at it, why not just get rid of those arbitrary borders that cause so much conflict and move to a resource based technological society. And by society, I mean humans not societies governed by arbitrary borders.
I'd agree with you if we could magically make all the guns in the world disappear and somehow forget that things like long barrels, gunpowder, and lead existed.
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski
Stupid people allow this to happen. I don't.
Stupid criminals and irresponsible gun owners allow gun deaths to occur. I don't.
guns in huge amounts in society allow it to happen.
No guns, no gun problem.
originally posted by: network dude
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski
Stupid people allow this to happen. I don't.
Stupid criminals and irresponsible gun owners allow gun deaths to occur. I don't.
guns in huge amounts in society allow it to happen.
No guns, no gun problem.
I submit that in that light, no food=no food poisoning. (WIN!) no doctors=no malpractice (WIN!) no forks=no forks stuck in kids eyes. (WIN!)
You make me smile.
originally posted by: EternalSolace
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: EternalSolace
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: budski
I freely admit this is idealistic, but again, what's wrong with wanting the world to be a better place for everybody?
Are you simply unaware of world history prior to the advent of the firearm? Violence has always been a thing. Removing a tool, in this case firearms, from the equation will likely have little to no measurable effect on statistics regarding violence.
a firearm is the modern weapon of choice and the one that historically is the easiest to use in order to subjugate others.
Violence has historically been used as a control mechanism, and guns make it easier to implement.
Then wouldn't it be accurate to say that since firearms are the easiest way to subjugate others, that firearms are the easiest way to ensure freedom from same subjugation?
Wouldn't it be accurate to say that since guns make the control mechanism easier to implement, that guns are the easiest way to resist that control mechanism?
Only if you assume that private guns can take on a modern army, which they can't.
Coming back to the idealism, ALL guns should be gotten rid of.
Not just those that belong to citizens.
And while we're at it, why not just get rid of those arbitrary borders that cause so much conflict and move to a resource based technological society. And by society, I mean humans not societies governed by arbitrary borders.
Since we're discussing the United States, it will never happen. I can gurantee that the men and women in the military would be fighting right along side and training the citizens that do take up arms.
You have no ground to stand on.
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: Vasa Croe
originally posted by: budski
a reply to: Vasa Croe
You haven't shown jack.
All you've done is post data and then tried to use it to fit the facts you want to show, which is exactly what you keep accusing me of, when it's just not true.
Show where the increase of registered weapons is primarily handguns.
There is absolutely nothing in your figures to show this.
Without that data, your claims are simply nonsense because there is no correlation.
These are your rules, I'm just abiding by them.
Your argument is really ignorant here. You are the one stating in the original OP that more guns = more death and you can't even show a stat on that.
You ask for evidence of something YOU stated and started a thread on?
Show me YOUR stat from any recognized US based data source on the number of guns increasing relates to the number of deaths by guns increasing.....your OP not mine. I have clearly shown where you are wrong in your statement based on nothing more than an article which you clearly did not read thoroughly.
I would suggest that this thread is based on a false premise and is simply trolling.
All the stats were in the article.
You chose to pick one part out of many and ignore all others, so to me that makes your arguments worthless.
originally posted by: EternalSolace
originally posted by: budski
Some things society needs, some things some people just want.
I'm sure the citizens of Poland needed some firearms in 1939.
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: EternalSolace
originally posted by: budski
Some things society needs, some things some people just want.
I'm sure the citizens of Poland needed some firearms in 1939.
I'm sure that if guns hadn't been invented in the first place the people of Poland would have been OK.
originally posted by: EternalSolace
originally posted by: budski
originally posted by: EternalSolace
originally posted by: budski
Some things society needs, some things some people just want.
I'm sure the citizens of Poland needed some firearms in 1939.
I'm sure that if guns hadn't been invented in the first place the people of Poland would have been OK.
But we aren't debating about the invention of the gun, are we?