Christians will burn in hell for claiming jesus to be their savior

originally posted by: yuppa


Free will. Remember God gave you free will.

Free Will versus Determinism.

Wave versus Particle.

Only God can make time, space, and matter: In the beginning (time), God created the Heavens (space), and the Earth (matter). Can your puny "free" will override that? I think not.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: yuppa


Free will. Remember God gave you free will.

Free Will versus Determinism.

Wave versus Particle.

Only God can make time, space, and matter: In the beginning (time), God created the Heavens (space), and the Earth (matter). Can your puny "free" will override that? I think not.

The free will construct is one of the most oddball universal beliefs that prevent a person from knowing truth.The fact is a God doesn't give free will nor is there anything as a will free of cause.The will is a mechanism of the mind for making choices(the vast majority are subconscious) however the will it is not free of cause.There are a multitude of causes and effects that are completely out of the control of a persons "will" choosing.That doesn't make mankind robot pupets manipulated by a superior being it means mankind is completely oblivious to reality! If someone believes they have a freedom of will yet reality contradicts that construct at every event something is twisted in the mind.

It is why people get frustrated when things don't "happen" according to their "supposed" free will.Every choice that every person makes is not free of all the causes that preceded it's effect.In other words there is none that are the originator of all the causes and effects in their life.It is a form of insanity called unreality to believe they are.

This is the biggest hurdle there is to overcome to face reality however none can jump over it either.... they must be thrown over it and land on their pumpkin head.It is the big gong waking call.Guess what .... you have ZERO control of your life events.Until that is known all forms of insanity will ensue the major foundational form being RELIGION and the belief in a false God!!It is usually in the form of a herd religion like Christianity (the most insane of all religions) or the self delusional ...I am God experiencing itself blah, blah ,woof woof ...

Unfortunately the masses of mankind will continue in their self imposed insanity and try to make sense out of a world that makes no sense at ALL with a will free of cause.They will continue to mindlessly chant the mantra "God gave me free will.. God gave me free will ..there's no place like home...there's no place like home.Just click you ruby slippers heels 3 times and it will be true......

a reply to: Rex282

you have ZERO control of your life events.

life is 10% action, 90% reaction. even those times our free will fails us, its our free will that determines how we react to that. even though i failed to get a raise last month, i succeeded in not robbing a convenience store or punching someone out. the free will to not throw around the lemons life gives me. every moment you actively choose to not do something, or to do something, other than simply sitting and staring at a wall, is a moment you are actively controlling your immediate future. not just what life does to you, but what you do in return. even sitting and staring at a wall is a choice.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: yuppa


Free will. Remember God gave you free will.

Free Will versus Determinism.

Wave versus Particle.

Only God can make time, space, and matter: In the beginning (time), God created the Heavens (space), and the Earth (matter). Can your puny "free" will override that? I think not.

God has free will to do what he wants dont he? Free will is the choice of how to react to things. God dont want little robots to control and to worship him because he says so. He wants you to freely come to him. If we didnt have free will then the worship of God would be meaningless to him right?

ALso I didnt say anything that contradicts the creation of th e universe in my post. SO nice try at deflection.

@ the other person. You do have a measure of control but you cannot control others and their effect of their wills on you or your environment. Also Unless you are able to do magic free will will not allow you to alter reality or visit Oz. That was plain silly.

I agree with the poster who pointed out how backwards it is that the selfish & self-preservation-oriented get promises of rewards before those with selflessness & kindness do. That's not a selling point for a religion for me, that tells me it's bunk from the get-go. God's akin to the crooked principle who greatly rewards the test cheaters & class skippers who kiss his ass while punishing the Honor Roll students & perfect attendance kids who don't prostrate at his feet. Jesus is the hall monitor that promises to get the cheaters & skippers out of hot water for their BS. Not at all a good well of morality there.

Around and around they go at it again.Atheist and creationist just agruing and foolish debates that go no where.

originally posted by: Jobeycool
Around and around they go at it again.Atheist and creationist just agruing and foolish debates that go no where.

I believe the universe that runs on math is too orderly to have just been random. You can believe in the big bang and creation too.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Jobeycool
Around and around they go at it again.Atheist and creationist just agruing and foolish debates that go no where.

I believe the universe that runs on math is too orderly to have just been random. You can believe in the big bang and creation too.

Math doesn't tell people who don't understand it they're going to hell though.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: rokkuman

That post was not relevent to your comments.

LOVE is the path and if you choose it will leed you to Jesus.

No it wont, FEAR and LACK of love leads people to Jesus, a masterful mind control program that in the minds of men actually becomes something real, something they can BELIEVE in ,

No PATH exists, as no destination or reason for being here is or can ever be properly explained in human form.

BUT YET you try onwards, everyone to each delusion prepared for them.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Jobeycool
Around and around they go at it again.Atheist and creationist just agruing and foolish debates that go no where.

I believe the universe that runs on math is too orderly to have just been random. You can believe in the big bang and creation too.

Math doesn't tell people who don't understand it they're going to hell though.

Well seeing as how its not up to me or anyone else but a individuals own choices themselves where they end up its not my business. I was just telling what I understood as what is to happen to all the dead after they die is all.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Rex282

you have ZERO control of your life events.

life is 10% action, 90% reaction. even those times our free will fails us, its our free will that determines how we react to that. even though i failed to get a raise last month, i succeeded in not robbing a convenience store or punching someone out. the free will to not throw around the lemons life gives me. every moment you actively choose to not do something, or to do something, other than simply sitting and staring at a wall, is a moment you are actively controlling your immediate future. not just what life does to you, but what you do in return. even sitting and staring at a wall is a choice.

There are a multitude of causes and effects that influence every choice that is made.The majority of subconscious choices are biological. Your skin condition causes you to scratch an itch.Reactions causes action and everything you will ever do is connected to a multitude of other sources not originating from you.Life is an infinitely complex system of causes and effects .You may think you are controlling an effect or cause but it was a cause or effect that triggered it because believing in an effect without a cause or a cause without an effect is delussionment.

Kicking against the pricks is the normal reaction when confronted with reality because it’s a knee jerk reaction.Man “desires” is to be in control of what they cannot control.If they could have a will free of control they would then want to not have control!It is the dilemma of a conundrum.Man wants what they can’t have(control of all of their lives causes and effects) because they can’t have it and if they had it they wouldn’t want it!!…in other words it is INSANITY…

To know that life can not be controlled by any methods is to know reality.The battle stops as the war continues all around.There are around 7 billion wills in conflict with each other believing they are free willy’s able to do whatever they desire.To believe you have a will free of cause is mans nature and is the cause of all conflict amongst men and creation.A person or persons will inflict others with their will to cause their free will choice to be free yet….it never does.

The coveted doctrine of free will is the common disease of all mankind.Atheist to hardcore fundamentalist believe the same doctrine of course in their own free will way…wrong.Free willy mania will not be ending soon.It has been the down fall of many an empire and will be again.Mankind cannot learn to be free of something they don’t believe they are bound by.The prison bars are invisible but they are there and they grow stronger and more in number with every passing minute of life bound by the doctrinal belief of free will.It is the last place anyone would look to be freed from the bondage of insanity yet it is the only way to be free.

In order to win the lottery you have to play first....I have faith in Jesus as a person and I have accepted his gift of slavation...Those that do not, do not get the gift...so you're not even remotely correct in what you said...

"I'm agnostic" ( same thing as not believing ) Even if you don't make a choice you have still made a choice...

"Jesus is to be ALL FORGIVING. Even if I mess up. I will be forgiven"

This is NOT how it works...please research the LORD further...i pray you change your stance...

Christianity does not indicate that humans are going to hell...The White Throne Judgement indicates whether someone continues to live in a spiritual form or whether their soul is extinguished permanently....

Strongs concordance for hell = " grave" a state of unconciousness, a severing from god permanently...Hell was created for the inprisonment and eternal tortue of the fallen angels , their ilk , and Lucifer..no human will ever see it....Up your understanding

a reply to: wyrmboy12

Christianity does not indicate that humans are going to hell

Matthew 25:46
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50
“The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Mark 9:43, 48-49
“And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire…where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire.”

originally posted by: yuppa

God has free will to do what he wants dont he? Free will is the choice of how to react to things. God dont want little robots to control and to worship him because he says so. He wants you to freely come to him. If we didnt have free will then the worship of God would be meaningless to him right?

ALso I didnt say anything that contradicts the creation of th e universe in my post. SO nice try at deflection.

Something to think about: If God has free will, can we? I was not trying to deflect with my reference to creation, but only compare the awesomeness of God with the non-awesomeness of us. Can we defeat or even hold back His will? No. As Solomon said, it is blowing into the wind - vanity. You think you decide, and exercise your free will, but God has all the days of your life numbered.

originally posted by: Awen24
Nice idea, but the analogy is all wrong.

People don't go to hell for not believing in Jesus.
They go to hell because the only way to NOT go to hell IS Jesus.

A (poor) analogy would be this:
that you, in the middle of the ocean following a shipwreck, turn down the rescue helicopter, saying "thanks, but I'm good."
The means for your salvation has already been achieved. Whether you keep floating in the ocean or not... that's up to you.

Forget the arrogance you display assuming your believe is the only way to "salvation"and sure, that makes sense. That, however, is not true.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: wyrmboy12

Christianity does not indicate that humans are going to hell

Matthew 25:46
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50
“The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Mark 9:43, 48-49
“And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire…where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire.”

That might depend on what translation you use. Read it again from the Young's Literal Translation:

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.

I don't deny that people (lots of them) get thrown into the furnace/fire - that being the Lake of Fire. However, the more accurate rendering of "age-during" indicates that time spent in the fire is limited, not eternal. Further, God describes Himself as a consuming/cleansing/refining fire. Further, Death and the Grave (not Hell) are to be thrown into the Lake of Fire, and how can anyone be dead and/or in Hell after that? It's absurd. No, the Lake of Fire truly is the second death, but when Death dies in the Lake of Fire, the ones who were thrown into it MUST be saved out of it, or God can never become All in all. Is that not what the ones who are thrown into the Lake of Fire are consumed, cleansed, and refined for? Of course, since God is love.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Further, God describes Himself as a consuming/cleansing/refining fire. Further, Death and the Grave (not Hell) are to be thrown into the Lake of Fire, and how can anyone be dead and/or in Hell after that? It's absurd.

Threatening eternal torture as punishment for non-belief and finite crimes is absurd. I was answering the claim that Christianity doesn't promote it, but it does.

originally posted by: wyrmboy12
In order to win the lottery you have to play first....I have faith in Jesus as a person and I have accepted his gift of slavation...Those that do not, do not get the gift...so you're not even remotely correct in what you said...

"I'm agnostic" ( same thing as not believing ) Even if you don't make a choice you have still made a choice...

"Jesus is to be ALL FORGIVING. Even if I mess up. I will be forgiven"

This is NOT how it works...please research the LORD further...i pray you change your stance...

You should research the phrase "long term conditioning". Take a few weeks to really think about the concept as a whole & how it would apply to everything around you, all the time. & to your parents, & their parents, & their parents' parents & so on. If there is an afterlife, I probably have as good a chance of seeing you there as I do seeing any one of the other 7billion&X people on the planet I don't know. I think we can both agree to be ok with that.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

duh i know we all have a limited time. what does that have to do with will? also apparently you dont believe in free will right? predetermination correct? Wow. so God pre determines someones going to be evil huh? If thats th e case why even punish someone when if that was how it works? thats Not very loving is it?