Christians will burn in hell for claiming jesus to be their savior

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Further, God describes Himself as a consuming/cleansing/refining fire. Further, Death and the Grave (not Hell) are to be thrown into the Lake of Fire, and how can anyone be dead and/or in Hell after that? It's absurd.

Threatening eternal torture as punishment for non-belief and finite crimes is absurd. I was answering the claim that Christianity doesn't promote it, but it does.

You are correct Christianity does promote hell however Yahoshua nor the creator God do.Thats the point.The scriptures have been twisted into something that isn't in them at all.Ive said it a thousand times and I'll say it many more times Yahoshua is not just a "name" tag it is a nature and it means Yahweh(the creator God ) is deliverance/salvation.That was not only the crux of everything Yahoshua said and did but it is his name (nature and character) it would be impossible for the creator God to punish someone by torture for not believing a false religious doctrine.

So yes you are correct that is what Christianity promotes the hell out of however Yahoshua never does.If you notice all references to a hell (Hades) correction (not punishment..and is actually what Yahoshua calls the eternal(which is translated from the Greek word aion which means an age fire and John called the lake of fire) is directed at the religious Jews which is also directed at all of the religious who believe in a false God.That is the essence of what "satan" is..it is not a supremely powerful being second only to the creator God it is a state of mind....the adversary...the religious carnal mind.

It is futile to foist what Christians believe on Yahoshua because they do not agree at all.Yahoshua nor the disciples never started the Christian religion Christians(John called them antichrists) did.It would be safe to say that everything that they believe is incorrect because the foundation is corrupted(Yahoshua said it is leavened lump of dough).So again... Yes Christianity is completely false regardless of the benevolence some have done because everything they believe is leavened with their religion and the fact is they will never be convinced of their error.The only thing anyone can do is present the truth to correct then where they error.

The systemic problem is the blight they have covered Yahoshua with by association.Attacking Yahoshua or the creator God through Christianity has as much effect as attacking the joy of giving via the implausibility of Santa Claus.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Further, God describes Himself as a consuming/cleansing/refining fire. Further, Death and the Grave (not Hell) are to be thrown into the Lake of Fire, and how can anyone be dead and/or in Hell after that? It's absurd.

Threatening eternal torture as punishment for non-belief and finite crimes is absurd. I was answering the claim that Christianity doesn't promote it, but it does.

Some branches of Christianity promote it, in some eras - others do not. Before ~500 AD, universal reconciliation was almost the norm, before the pagan mindset took over and eternal torment became an idol.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I grew up in the 1950-70s in an Assembly of God community, and HELL was a mainstay. My great aunt was a nun, and HELL was her mainstay, as well!

I can't tell you the pain and sorrow that I lived with everyday knowing that my father and my beloved grandparents were going to HELL for non-belief.

Here's a documentary about an Oral Roberts ordained preacher who dared to preach that Christ doesn't send his children to HELL.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Lazarus Short

duh i know we all have a limited time. what does that have to do with will? also apparently you dont believe in free will right? predetermination correct? Wow. so God pre determines someones going to be evil huh? If thats th e case why even punish someone when if that was how it works? thats Not very loving is it?

Duh? Time is not really limited - I was trying to echo what the Bible says, that the steps of a man are established by the Lord [God]. and He delights in his (man's) way. I way trying to hint with the wave vs particle analogy - is it free will or determinism? It looks like both to me, and I think it looks like free will to us because of our POV. From God's POV, I'm certain it is positively determined, etched in stone as it were. It is what it is, even though our three-dimensional, carnal minds cannot deal adequately with it. You wouldn't try to make your dog understand algebra, would you? Rover, find "X"! Nope, that dog don't hunt. If you think God determines who is evil, keep in mind that we are ALL a mix of good and evil (except Jesus). Laz himself, by God's standard, is a vile, wretched, sinner. Yeah, God made us thus, so why punish us? No, God's Justice was to send His Own Son to die to make reconciliation between man and Himself. That is such an unexpected Justice that most folks do not see or understand it as such, and go on believing in Hell.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I have said to you but you dont seem to grasp this. i have said HELL does not exist UNTIL THE END. No eternal punishment(thanks catholic church for twisting it yet again) But its hard to reconcile somethings. God said he cant abide sin correct?

The LAke of fire does not exist as eternal punishment but a place of ending. Remember God has killed many himself out of love and he was right to do so. SO why would he not mete out punishment again out of love? Instead of torturing a soul forever he mercifully ends its exestence. ALso Doing so removed that persons influence on any one they knew.

In other words all their memories will be gone. Its one reason why there is a line in the bible about there being no more tears in heaven. Why would you be sad about someone who never existed?

BUT.. maybe you are right. MAybe its just a cleansing place. I am sure we will see one day who was correct.

a reply to: yuppa

Remember God has killed many himself out of love and he was right to do so.

thats messed up. and its messed up to admire it too.

a reply to: yuppa

Remember God has killed many himself out of love and he was right to do so.

Accordingly, your God has killed every living thing that it ever created! Everyone and every living thing has been given the Death Penalty and MUST die, according to the rules of the biblical creation story. So what if some were purposely killed before their time, in horrible miserable ways? God said, "It is good."

My belief is that if god and heaven are real, then your religion has no baring on if you get there or not. The idea of an all loving god contradicts with the idea that god would favor a person over another person just because they don't believe in him. That isn't unconditional love (which is what "all-loving" means). Christian dogma is seriously flawed in this regard (well many others, but this is a glaring contradiction that is used to spread violence and hate).

Therefore, I can be an agnostic and if god and heaven are real, I'll still go to heaven if I'm a good person. I don't NEED Christianity to get there.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I always thought an eternity in hell for 80 years of sinning was kinda overkill but that's just me lol!

a reply to: tiberius10721

Heh. I've thought the same thing. In fact that is why I think that it is more likely that hell is Earth and unworthy souls are reincarnated here until they are worthy; which kind of makes Buddhism correct if you consider Nirvana to be God.

I mean if we go with the supposition that only worthy souls make it to heaven, an all-loving god would try to give his souls as many chances as possible to get there (reincarnation). A hateful or petty god would send them to hell after messing up once.

This also makes sense in that religion is super vague and completely open to interpretation. There is literally no way to confirm that you have the correct religion or not. Following Christian doctrine that unbelief in Jesus results in hell, you could wind up in hell just because you were born in the wrong place on the planet. Meanwhile, with reincarnation you have all these chances to try different religions and faiths until you get the correct one.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Sometimes I think john lear is right when he says you just have to live your life with integrity ,love and without greed but I think his idea of soul machine on the moon is nuts lol

Believing in Jesus as your savior will get you tortured and your head chopped off in the middle east. Kind of a hell on earth and the logic of all Muslims.

Oh the logic of the Atheists and their bent on creating something out of nothing. This thread being a prime example of that folly..

a reply to: truckdriver42

That's why I refuse to travel outside of America lol

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Lazarus Short

I have said to you but you dont seem to grasp this. i have said HELL does not exist UNTIL THE END. No eternal punishment(thanks catholic church for twisting it yet again) But its hard to reconcile somethings. God said he cant abide sin correct?

The LAke of fire does not exist as eternal punishment but a place of ending. Remember God has killed many himself out of love and he was right to do so. SO why would he not mete out punishment again out of love? Instead of torturing a soul forever he mercifully ends its exestence. ALso Doing so removed that persons influence on any one they knew.

In other words all their memories will be gone. Its one reason why there is a line in the bible about there being no more tears in heaven. Why would you be sad about someone who never existed?

BUT.. maybe you are right. MAybe its just a cleansing place. I am sure we will see one day who was correct.

I grasp it just fine. We can sling theology all day, quote the Bible all night, but the end of the argument must be what best represents the character of God: eternal torment, final annihilation, or ultimate reconciliation.

God is love...so:

Eternal Torment - hell no!

Final Annihilation - God forbid!

Ultimate Reconciliation - KA-CHING!

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: tiberius10721

......

This also makes sense in that religion is super vague and completely open to interpretation. There is literally no way to confirm that you have the correct religion or not. Following Christian doctrine that unbelief in Jesus results in hell, you could wind up in hell just because you were born in the wrong place on the planet. Meanwhile, with reincarnation you have all these chances to try different religions and faiths until you get the correct one.

I understand where you are coming from however this is flawed thinking.Re-incarnation is not going to "right a wrong" or improve anything especially if all religion is wrong it is just digging a new deeper hole in an old hole that leads to nowhere.

If there is a creator God nothing mankind can think is the solution to a dilemma that doesn't even exist.The fact would be (and is) there is no such place as hell nor heaven so there is nothing anyone can do to "get" there.They are both false constructs of the religious carnal mind.The only thing you can do (and is required) is to live your life.There is zero things anyone can do to solve this conundrum of "why are we here".It will all come out in the wash .

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: tiberius10721

......

This also makes sense in that religion is super vague and completely open to interpretation. There is literally no way to confirm that you have the correct religion or not. Following Christian doctrine that unbelief in Jesus results in hell, you could wind up in hell just because you were born in the wrong place on the planet. Meanwhile, with reincarnation you have all these chances to try different religions and faiths until you get the correct one.

I understand where you are coming from however this is flawed thinking.Re-incarnation is not going to "right a wrong" or improve anything especially if all religion is wrong it is just digging a new deeper hole in and old hole that leads to nowhere.

If there is a creator God nothing mankind can think is the solution to a dilemma that doesn't even exist.The fact would be (and is) there is no such place as hell nor heaven so there is nothing anyone can do to "get" there.They are both false constructs of the religious carnal mind.The only thing you can do (and is required) is to live your life.There is zero things anyone can do to solve this conundrum of "why are we here".It will all come out in the wash .

I think we can all agree that the world we live in pretty much revolves around religion.

So what if we are being reincarnated here over & over until we (as an individual) move past it. The Christians are so f# if that's the case.

Reincarnation isn't about "righting a wrong", it's about true acceptance of morality & treating others well despite outside forces. I think the Gnostics were the closest to being right.
"...collection of ancient religions whose adherents shunned the material world - which they viewed as created by the demiurge - and embraced the spiritual world. Gnostic ideas influenced many ancient religions that teach that gnosis (variously interpreted as knowledge, enlightenment, salvation, emancipation or 'oneness with God') may be reached by practicing philanthropy to the point of personal poverty and diligently searching for wisdom by helping others.

originally posted by: Rex282
I understand where you are coming from however this is flawed thinking.Re-incarnation is not going to "right a wrong" or improve anything especially if all religion is wrong it is just digging a new deeper hole in an old hole that leads to nowhere.

I'm not necessarily saying that reincarnation exists, just that it is the safe bet and most likely true given the premise that god is "all loving".

If there is a creator God nothing mankind can think is the solution to a dilemma that doesn't even exist.The fact would be (and is) there is no such place as hell nor heaven so there is nothing anyone can do to "get" there.They are both false constructs of the religious carnal mind.The only thing you can do (and is required) is to live your life.There is zero things anyone can do to solve this conundrum of "why are we here".It will all come out in the wash .

You aren't telling me anything I don't know. I certainly don't believe in hell and heaven is just as unlikely.

There is always that, but do you know what is even worse? When people degrade a group of people based on certain individuals. Not all Muslims are terrorists. But in the same way, not all christians are out there to shove an agenda down your throat. The more that you respond in a negative way to any group (see OP) the more negativity you are causing. By making a post like this one, you have succumbed to prejudice. A post like this one is nothing more than one person acting unkindly toward another (or in this case a particular group). A post like this one is why there is such division in the human race at this time. So thank you for taking time out of your day to attack another persons belief. Next time you plan to do this, please remember that any intolerant view is violent and should not be allowed in this world.

Not a christian, just wanting people to get over the petty crap and get along in the world.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

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I think we can all agree that the world we live in pretty much revolves around religion.

Religion is ALL the world man lives in revolves around.It is the nature of mankind.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

So what if we are being reincarnated here over & over until we (as an individual) move past it. The Christians are so f# if that's the case.

There is no “moving past” it by living the same life over and over like a spinning world that always leads to more death that is just as a false construct as religion.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
Reincarnation isn't about "righting a wrong", it's about true acceptance of morality & treating others well despite outside forces.

That is just more dualism of religion.Moral and ethical codesare just a human construct of justification.The scriptures call it the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil”.Morals and ethics are instinct of a person nature and character. They cannot be learned.None will ever get “better” from more practice they will only “possibly” be better at “acting”…and that’s the point a nature doesn’t “change”(repent) unless it is CHANGED.That means the old nature must die first and a new nature must be born.

Religion and especially a reincarnations" Mulligan of life" will never change a nature.The person will only “live” more of their nature.If they are corrupt they will grow more and more corrupt.Redemption through reincarnation is more pie in the sky alamode than heaven and religious salvation because it is flawed logic and more significantly unreasonable.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

I think the Gnostics were the closest to being right.
"...collection of ancient religions whose adherents shunned the material world - which they viewed as created by the demiurge - and embraced the spiritual world. Gnostic ideas influenced many ancient religions that teach that gnosis (variously interpreted as knowledge, enlightenment, salvation, emancipation or 'oneness with God') may be reached by practicing philanthropy to the point of personal poverty and diligently searching for wisdom by helping others.

Gnosticism is just more religion and mysticism(even stronger delusion than religion).asceticism, is the most extreme form of self flagellation and foolishness.The Gnostics were completely insane religious fanatics which is what modern fundamentalism is turning to(and already is).The fact is man can do NOTHING to make themselves "better" and ascend their nature.The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the food of religion and mysticism.It creates dualism that don’t exist.The ultimate fallacy is Good(truth) needs evil(lies) to exist…mankinds mind is geared for duality which is it’s downfall because it is a false system and holds no truth.

The fruit of their tree cause men to “judge” by their own “judgement” from THEIR tree of the knowledge of good and evil.Those judgement could begin good (truthful) but eventually they will be twisted into whatever the mans perception of observation is and is easily justified by their “law” of duality.The fact is Truth only knows truth there is no duality there is no right or wrong there is only right(truth).That is the only “getting over it” and NONE can do that by ANY form of religion or mysticism..that is complete delusion.

a reply to: twhite93

Get along in the world? Multiple people in multiple threads today have said you don't need to be a good person to go go Heaven, just accept the fact you're evil & God will forgive you for it.

I don't care if someone never once tries to convert another or hates all Muslims because of a few extremists; if you & your entire belief system preaches that evil is ok, be yourself whatever that means, you are wrong & need to be scorned.