Jesus so called "sacrifice" on the cross

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
As we keep pointing out, he went through the experience of death.
He died.

He died temporarily.

He still died.

originally posted by: rokkuman
yes they messed up because they apparently forgot the part where Jesus came back to life.

They obviously did not forget it, because they taught about the resurrection simultaneously with teaching about the death.
They were focussing on the important element in the concept (being offered in death).

a reply to: rokkuman
If he went through the experience of death, then he died.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
If he went through the experience of death, then he died.

yeah sure he died I never denied that so what about the whole "sacrifice" aspect of his death?

Jesus "sacrifice" was that he died only to come back to life.

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: rokkuman
you are the one quibbling over words.

The title and premise of your thread is a quibble.
"I've come up with a definition of the word 'sacrifice', and what happened to Jesus does not match it."

I never came up with any definition for the word sacrifice. I'm simply going by what christians themselves say regarding jesus - that he was sacrificed. The word itself is used in the bible. Tons of christian publications stress on the fact that jesus was "sacrificed" .

Here is an online dictionary definition of sacrifice

In light of that meaning, it seems your post has made the assumption that sacrifice always must mandate death. It doesn't.

in context of jesus story in the bible, the sacrifice meant death.
and we know that jesus "death" was only temporary but yeah keep telling me what a great sacrifice it was.

Actually, it is quite clear that in the context of the Jesus account in the Bible, the sacrifice meant death, but quite clearly not forever.

a reply to: rokkuman
The "sacrifice" aspect of his death was the "self-offering".
I have said this before.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: rokkuman
you are the one quibbling over words.

The title and premise of your thread is a quibble.
"I've come up with a definition of the word 'sacrifice', and what happened to Jesus does not match it."

I never came up with any definition for the word sacrifice. I'm simply going by what christians themselves say regarding jesus - that he was sacrificed. The word itself is used in the bible. Tons of christian publications stress on the fact that jesus was "sacrificed" .

Here is an online dictionary definition of sacrifice

In light of that meaning, it seems your post has made the assumption that sacrifice always must mandate death. It doesn't.

in context of jesus story in the bible, the sacrifice meant death.
and we know that jesus "death" was only temporary but yeah keep telling me what a great sacrifice it was.

Actually, it is quite clear that in the context of the Jesus account in the Bible, the sacrifice meant death, but quite clearly not forever.

exactly! "not forever". His death lasted only 3 days.

So why do christians bleat on and on about Jesus temporary death being a great "sacrifice"?

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
The "sacrifice" aspect of his death was the "self-offering".
I have said this before.

yeah the "self-offering" was a "death" that lasted 3 days. Big "sacrifice" right there.

a reply to: rokkuman
We come round full circle to what I said at the beginning.
If you think it's so easy, would you be willing to do it?

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
If he went through the experience of death, then he died.

yeah sure he died I never denied that so what about the whole "sacrifice" aspect of his death?

Jesus "sacrifice" was that he died only to come back to life.

No, that was only a part of Jesus' sacrifice.

He was God but he gave up all of that to become a human who could be sick, in pain, frightened & tempted. He could legitimately be called a bastard (and He was called one), could be put down because of the town where He was born, could be falsely accused of crimes, could be betrayed by His nearest and dearest and, in His time of greatest need, was alone, abandoned.

He went into that with full prior knowledge (He tried to explain it to His disciples several times, but they just didn't seem able to conceive it).

That was His sacrifice. He was God but humbled Himself to death by torture to demonstrate how much He would give up for you and me.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
We come round full circle to what I said at the beginning.
If you think it's so easy, would you be willing to do it?

sure only if you guarantee that I come back to life in 3 days in a glorified body.

can't do so? then don't bother with these absurd questions.

a reply to: rokkuman
I think you're bluffing, because you know we don't have the power to hold you to that promise.
The eternal boast of the adolescent; "That's not so hard. I could do that, easy!"

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
We come round full circle to what I said at the beginning.
If you think it's so easy, would you be willing to do it?

sure only if you guarantee that I come back to life in 3 days in a glorified body.

Yes, with a glorified body, but as an amoeba, not a human. Jesus was God, but became a dead human. He lost lots in the transaction. So should you, too.

Wiggle them cilia, man!

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
I think you're bluffing, because you know we don't have the power to hold you to that promise.
The eternal boast of the adolescent; "That's not so hard. I could do that, easy!"

Yeah, I could play the grand piano like a maestro if i only knew which buttons to press!

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
If he went through the experience of death, then he died.

yeah sure he died I never denied that so what about the whole "sacrifice" aspect of his death?

Jesus "sacrifice" was that he died only to come back to life.

That was His sacrifice. He was God but humbled Himself to death by torture to demonstrate how much He would give up for you and me.

you are simply exaggerating jesus' temporary death that lasted 72 hours as being a "sacrifice".

Next youre gonna tell me that Jesus' act of helping a woman (that he compared to a dog ) after she begged and pleaded makes Jesus a great humanitarian.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
I think you're bluffing, because you know we don't have the power to hold you to that promise.

of course I know you cant gaurantee me a resurrection in 3 days with a glorified body so just why would you ask me to get nailed to the cross?

christian "logic" is bizarre.

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
If he went through the experience of death, then he died.

yeah sure he died I never denied that so what about the whole "sacrifice" aspect of his death?

Jesus "sacrifice" was that he died only to come back to life.

That was His sacrifice. He was God but humbled Himself to death by torture to demonstrate how much He would give up for you and me.

you are simply exaggerating jesus' temporary death that lasted 72 hours as being a "sacrifice".

Next youre gonna tell me that Jesus' act of helping a woman that he compared to a dog after she begged and pleaded makes Jesus a great humanitarian.

Now why would I do that? It's beside the point.

(Despite the fact that this appears to be something else you have misunderstood. The actual closest English translation to the word used is "puppies" or"little dogs" and was an endearing term rather than a derogatory one and this example was a lesson for the disciples who were being derogatory about the woman because she wasn't Jewish).

But troll on...

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
If he went through the experience of death, then he died.

yeah sure he died I never denied that so what about the whole "sacrifice" aspect of his death?

Jesus "sacrifice" was that he died only to come back to life.

That was His sacrifice. He was God but humbled Himself to death by torture to demonstrate how much He would give up for you and me.

you are simply exaggerating jesus' temporary death that lasted 72 hours as being a "sacrifice".

Next youre gonna tell me that Jesus' act of helping a woman that he compared to a dog after she begged and pleaded makes Jesus a great humanitarian.

Now why would I do that? It's beside the point.

If being dead for 3 days is a great "sacrifice" to you then youd probably exaggerate the other thing as well.

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
If he went through the experience of death, then he died.

yeah sure he died I never denied that so what about the whole "sacrifice" aspect of his death?

Jesus "sacrifice" was that he died only to come back to life.

That was His sacrifice. He was God but humbled Himself to death by torture to demonstrate how much He would give up for you and me.

you are simply exaggerating jesus' temporary death that lasted 72 hours as being a "sacrifice".

Next youre gonna tell me that Jesus' act of helping a woman that he compared to a dog after she begged and pleaded makes Jesus a great humanitarian.

Now why would I do that? It's beside the point.

If being dead for 3 days is a great "sacrifice" to you then youd probably exaggerate the other thing as well.

To quote some Australian slang, "I wouldn't be dead for quids, mate".

Anyway, it's early morning here beneath the baleful flickering glow of Mount Doom.

I'm off to sleep.

You can troll-on, though.