It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Jesus so called "sacrifice" on the cross

page: 1
6
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:06 AM
link   
So I keep hearing the canard that Jesus "sacrificed" his life on the cross, or that he "died" for peoples sins.

Its kinda funny because in the Bible we read that Jesus came back to life a few days after his so called "death" / "sacrifice".
So what kind of a sacrifice is it when you lose something knowing you would get it back shortly?

for example
If you dive in front of a bullet headed towards a loved one and you die instead of your loved one that would truly count as a great sacrifice.
However if you do that knowing fully well you would come back to life, its wouldn't be too logical to say that you "died" to save somebody would it?

The latter is exactly the case of Jesus who "died" and came back to life. If anything at all he was temporarily immobilized (going by what the bible says)

So my question is
what kind of a sacrifice is it when the "sacrifice" comes back to life?

edit on 6-2-2015 by rokkuman because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:18 AM
link   
a reply to: rokkuman

None of it makes any sense because it's a story written by ancient sand people.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:24 AM
link   


So my question is
what kind of a sacrifice is it when the "sacrifice" comes back to life?

Lets see if christians can answer this without walls of scripture and theology which makes sense to nobody else but them.

a reply to: rokkuman So are you looking for a philosophical answer seeing you have taken the theological response away ? Or maybe you would like it explained in a legal way ? ...And seeing you are eliminating scripture as a source to explain it you might suggest the source you would like to use . I only ask because you have to start somewhere .



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:24 AM
link   
a reply to: rokkuman

The sacrifice wasn't about dying in the cross. it was about living as a human being. He came down to earth to live, feel and suffer like a human in order for him to be able to intercede for our sins.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:29 AM
link   
a reply to: rokkuman

There's a school of thought that believes that since Jesus was enlightened in a huge way, he didn't really feel the physical pain of the scourging. The cosmic Jesus, the 'real' Jesus, was detached from His physical self.
There's definitely a lot of stuff to consider from philosophical, theological and scientific standpoints.
The discussion is endless!


edit on 6-2-2015 by ColeYounger because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: the2ofusr1



So my question is
what kind of a sacrifice is it when the "sacrifice" comes back to life?

Lets see if christians can answer this without walls of scripture and theology which makes sense to nobody else but them.

a reply to: rokkuman So are you looking for a philosophical answer seeing you have taken the theological response away ? Or maybe you would like it explained in a legal way ? ...And seeing you are eliminating scripture as a source to explain it you might suggest the source you would like to use . I only ask because you have to start somewhere .


According to logic 101 are statements like "Jesus was sacrificed" or "Jesus died on the cross" valid considering Jesus came back to life later?






edit on 6-2-2015 by rokkuman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: Abednego
a reply to: rokkuman

The sacrifice wasn't about dying in the cross. it was about living as a human being. He came down to earth to live, feel and suffer like a human in order for him to be able to intercede for our sins.



Strange everybody else tells me that Jesus dying on the cross is kind of a big deal and a major part of how christians get "saved" by believing in jesus sacrifice/death on the cross etc. Here you are telling me that the " sacrifice wasn't about dying in the cross".




posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:41 AM
link   
a reply to: Abednego

It sounds to me like Jesus' trip to Earth was more for his own understanding than for our salvation.



it was about living as a human being. He came down to earth to live, feel and suffer like a human in order for him to be able to intercede for our sins.


So, let's see. God was up in Heaven, stymied by these rebellious and sinful humans' behavior, so he decides he better see what all the fuss is about, and why he can't get them to obey him, and live "good" lives. He arranges for a virgin to give him a human body, lives relatively anonymous for around 30 years, meets up with his bud from Heaven, John the Baptist, goes on a vision quest in the desert, preaches for a little while then gets himself publicly and shamefully executed. Three days later, he rises from the dead, eats a meal and preaches a little bit more, then he floats back up to Heaven in a cloud, in front of few witnesses.

Now that God has experienced what it's like to be human, he can forgive our sins, but our salvation is dependent on whether or not we believe that above story, or some variation thereof, or not.

I guess that's about as good as a theory as any!




edit on 6-2-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:47 AM
link   
a reply to: rokkuman

What's your point?

I'm genuinely curious. Is your perspective that Jesus existed, was the Son of God, everything in the bible was correct but "wow what a jerk, he didn't' really die"

By those standards NO ONE really dies, we all have an afterlife right? So what's the point of anything really? If I know I will end up in Heaven, than if anyone jumps in front of a bullet for anyone, "pssh that jerk knew God would like that"

If you don't' believe Jesus existed, than why are you asking about his actions? They didn't happen right? Or are you just here to have a laugh at other people's belief system?
edit on 2/6/2015 by PsychoEmperor because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
a reply to: rokkuman

What's your point?

I'm genuinely curious. Is your perspective that Jesus existed, was the Son of God, everything in the bible was correct



not at all!

Just curious to see how christians explain their "Jesus died 4 u" theology considering the bible says Jesus came back to life.

Why do they keep advertising Jesus' great "sacrifice" and how much Jesus loves you when the bible teaches that Jesus came back to life and that he will return to kill everybody who doesnt agree with him.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:52 AM
link   
You will have to link me to your logic 101 so I can have a peek . I believe that either Plato tried to figure out how God could forgive sin and may hold some shortcomings into using the logical method . a reply to: rokkuman



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:53 AM
link   

originally posted by: rokkuman
According to logic 101 are statements like "Jesus was sacrificed" or "Jesus died on the cross" valid considering Jesus came back to life later?


Of course they are. He was tortured, yes? He went through the agony of death, yes? When He rose from the dead He did not come back into a human body but came back transformed into His glorified body. Everyone gets a new life after human death. That doesn't take away from the agony and sacrifice that He endured while alive in human form. Logic 101.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:54 AM
link   

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
You will have to link me to your logic 101 so I can have a peek . I believe that either Plato tried to figure out how God could forgive sin and may hold some shortcomings into using the logical method . a reply to: rokkuman




you say Jesus "died" or was "sacrificed" for our sins. But according to the bible Jesus came back to life.

So like i asked in the op :


what kind of a sacrifice is it when the "sacrifice" comes back to life?



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:55 AM
link   


the bible teaches that Jesus came back to life and that he will return to kill everybody who doesnt agree with him.
a reply to: rokkuman Make no mistake ,Jesus will not have to kill you because you will surely die , weather in your sin's or redeemed .



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:58 AM
link   


you say Jesus "died" or was "sacrificed" for our sins. But according to the bible Jesus came back to life.

So like i asked in the op :


what kind of a sacrifice is it when the "sacrifice" comes back to life?

a reply to: rokkuman See it's hard to go into it with out using theology . We are not talking about a father drowning while saving his child only to later being revived by medics .



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:59 AM
link   
a reply to: the2ofusr1

Plato didn't believe in "original sin".


…when people make a wrong choice of pleasures and pains—that is, of good and evil—the cause of their mistake is lack of knowledge….no one who either knows or believes that there is another possible course of action, better than the one he is following, will ever continue on his present course when he might choose the better. To “act beneath yourself” is the result of pure ignorance, to “be your own master” is wisdom. PLATO (357e, 358c)


Plato believed that virtue could be taught. Through the "knowledge of experience", comes Wisdom.


edit on 6-2-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 10:02 AM
link   

originally posted by: rokkuman
you say Jesus "died" or was "sacrificed" for our sins. But according to the bible Jesus came back to life.

He came back to life differently. And so what? He still suffered through the torture and death. That was a sacrifice on his part. Any attempt to try to take that away from Him fails miserably.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 10:03 AM
link   
a reply to: rokkuman

The point was that Jesus suffered spiritual death for us. Its one thing to die and come back, but to suffer the way He did is unheard of. He didnt just suffer physical wounds, but He had to bare the sins of the world within Him.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 10:07 AM
link   
a reply to: rokkuman
If it's so easy to do, perhaps you would be willing to do it yourself?
Since you think there's nothing to it?



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 10:08 AM
link   

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: rokkuman
According to logic 101 are statements like "Jesus was sacrificed" or "Jesus died on the cross" valid considering Jesus came back to life later?


Of course they are. He was tortured, yes? He went through the agony of death, yes? When He rose from the dead He did not come back into a human body but came back transformed into His glorified body.


a glorified body negates the idea of Jesus sacrifice even further, because he sacrificed one thing for an even better thing.

see I once "sacrificed" my good job and moved to a new town to be with a loved one and there I land an even better job.

Would you agree with me that I made a sacrifice and went through the agony of leaving behind my old job? and that it was only later that I landed a better job? does it still stand that I made a great sacrifice for somebody?



edit on 6-2-2015 by rokkuman because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
6
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join