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Jesus so called "sacrifice" on the cross

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posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:37 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
Yes, the Bible teaches that Jesus went through the experience of death, partly as the result of a willing self-offering.
The exact label we attach to the event is not important.


christians are guilty of attaching labels to the event of jesus' death. they even make a big deal out of jesus' temporary death saying its the greatest act of sacrifice etc. when its clear that Jesus ultimately came back to life.




posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:38 AM
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originally posted by: rokkuman
you are the one quibbling over words.

The title and premise of your thread is a quibble.
"I've come up with a definition of the word 'sacrifice', and what happened to Jesus does not match it."

edit on 7-2-2015 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:41 AM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: ketsuko




Jesus was the first to experience the resurrection to eternal life.


How can you say that? According to the Bible, there were several people that were resurrected, in both the Old and New Testament. Then, of course there was Melchizedek, who was "never born and never died, and Elijah, who never died.

According to Jesus, "everyone" born in the spirit has eternal life.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


I take that to mean that there were people that were born again, born of the spirit, and therefore had eternal life without Jesus having to die.



Job, who pre-dated Jesus by thousands of years said "I know that my Savior lives, and at the end He will stand on this earth. My flesh may be destroyed, yet from this body I will see God. Yes, I will see him for myself, and I long for that moment".

The flow of time is not what your logic dictates but is far more complex.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:44 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: rokkuman
you are the one quibbling over words.

The title and premise of your thread is a quibble.
"I've come up with a definition of the word 'sacrifice', and what happened to Jesus does not match it."


I never came up with any definition for the word sacrifice. I'm simply going by what christians themselves say regarding jesus - that he was sacrificed. The word itself is used in the bible. Tons of christian publications stress on the fact that jesus was "sacrificed" .



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:46 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: rokkuman

Jesus was a deity, timeless, immortal and all powerful. Creator of the universe.

He became human.

Still is.

That is sacrifice.



sure thats the premise of your 2000 year old story book so what about it.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:50 AM
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originally posted by: rokkuman
I never came up with any definition for the word sacrifice.

Yes you did, sunny Jim.

originally posted by: rokkuman
It isnt because sacrifice means its gone for good not gone temporarily.

Your whole case has been centred around the argument that what happened to Jesus does not match that definition.
And I am saying that it DOES match what Paul and the author of Hebrews meant by the word.
And who are you to say they were using the word wrong?



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:50 AM
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He was not sacrificed, he was not a willing participant. He was killed because the Jews did not like him claiming any affiliation to god and having so many followers. So the Jewish leaders begged the Romans to do their dirty work. Was not a sacrifice. That is just propaganda from the Christians.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:50 AM
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originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: rokkuman
you are the one quibbling over words.

The title and premise of your thread is a quibble.
"I've come up with a definition of the word 'sacrifice', and what happened to Jesus does not match it."


I never came up with any definition for the word sacrifice. I'm simply going by what christians themselves say regarding jesus - that he was sacrificed. The word itself is used in the bible. Tons of christian publications stress on the fact that jesus was "sacrificed" .



Here is an online dictionary definition of sacrifice

In light of that meaning, it seems your post has made the assumption that sacrifice always must mandate death. It doesn't.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:54 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: rokkuman
I never came up with any definition for the word sacrifice.

Yes you did, sunny Jim.

originally posted by: rokkuman
It isnt because sacrifice means its gone for good not gone temporarily.

Your whole case has been centred around the argument that what happened to Jesus does not match that definition.
And I am saying that it DOES match what Paul and the author of Hebrews meant by the word.
And who are you to say they were using the word wrong?


Nope youre the one redefining "Sacrifice" to include a case in which the sacrifice comes back to life.

This thread proves that christianity operates on its own logic and its own definition of words and even numbers.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:55 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: rokkuman
you are the one quibbling over words.

The title and premise of your thread is a quibble.
"I've come up with a definition of the word 'sacrifice', and what happened to Jesus does not match it."


I never came up with any definition for the word sacrifice. I'm simply going by what christians themselves say regarding jesus - that he was sacrificed. The word itself is used in the bible. Tons of christian publications stress on the fact that jesus was "sacrificed" .



Here is an online dictionary definition of sacrifice

In light of that meaning, it seems your post has made the assumption that sacrifice always must mandate death. It doesn't.



in context of jesus story in the bible, the sacrifice meant death.
and we know that jesus "death" was only temporary but yeah keep telling me what a great sacrifice it was.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 05:00 AM
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originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: rokkuman

Jesus was a deity, timeless, immortal and all powerful. Creator of the universe.

He became human.

Still is.

That is sacrifice.



sure thats the premise of your 2000 year old story book so what about it.


Hardly just a story book!

... however, I was responding to the question you posed in your original post but, so what about it, it is no doubt as superficial as its author.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 05:00 AM
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originally posted by: rokkuman
Nope youre the one redefining "Sacrifice" to include a case in which the sacrifice comes back to life.

That definition did not begin with me.
Paul and the writer of Hebrews are the people understanding "sacrifice" as including a case in which the sacrifice comes back to life. They are understanding that the important element is the "self-offering".
You are the one indignantly telling the writers of the New Testament that they don't understand the words they are using.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 05:08 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: rokkuman
Nope youre the one redefining "Sacrifice" to include a case in which the sacrifice comes back to life.

That definition did not begin with me.
Paul and the writer of Hebrews are the people understanding "sacrifice" as including a case in which the sacrifice comes back to life. They are understanding that the important element is the "self-offering".


okay then that simply proves that the people who wrote the bible stories messed up by writing Jesus "sacrificed" his life because of the fact that we read Jesus is alive at the end of the book. And christians have been parroting that same "Jesus died 4 U" canard for 2000 years.

edit on 7-2-2015 by rokkuman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 05:12 AM
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originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: rokkuman
you are the one quibbling over words.

The title and premise of your thread is a quibble.
"I've come up with a definition of the word 'sacrifice', and what happened to Jesus does not match it."


I never came up with any definition for the word sacrifice. I'm simply going by what christians themselves say regarding jesus - that he was sacrificed. The word itself is used in the bible. Tons of christian publications stress on the fact that jesus was "sacrificed" .



Here is an online dictionary definition of sacrifice

In light of that meaning, it seems your post has made the assumption that sacrifice always must mandate death. It doesn't.



in context of jesus story in the bible, the sacrifice meant death.
and we know that jesus "death" was only temporary but yeah keep telling me what a great sacrifice it was.


But Jesus did actually die and so fulfilled the Jewish ritual definition of a sacrifice, it was just that He was the first consummated ritual sacrifice that resurrected.

He still went through the process of death by torture.

To clarify things further by applying a personal view; if you drowned, lost consciousness, stopped breathing, went blue and lost heartbeat for an extended period but were resuscitated, would that negate the fact and experience of you drowning (and no doubt the panic and fear as you fought to survive)? No. It would not be unreasonable for you or anyone else to refer to it as drowning.



edit on 7/2/2015 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 05:13 AM
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a reply to: rokkuman
They did not "mess up".
They used the word correctly, as it was understood at the time.
The fact that you have come up with a different definition, to suit your purposes, does not make them wrong.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 05:14 AM
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romans 5:8 - But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

biblehub.com...

but sure lets just pretend he never came back to life a few days later.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 05:16 AM
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a reply to: rokkuman
As we keep pointing out, he went through the experience of death.
He died.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 05:18 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
They did not "mess up".
They used the word correctly, as it was understood at the time.
The fact that you have come up with a different definition, to suit your purposes, does not make them wrong.




yes they messed up because they apparently forgot the part where Jesus came back to life.

we read of animal sacrifices for sins in the old testament. all the "sacrifice" animals died and stayed dead.

and then somebody came up with the idea to introduce a new kind of sacrifice in which the sacrifice comes back to life.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 05:21 AM
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originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
They did not "mess up".
They used the word correctly, as it was understood at the time.
The fact that you have come up with a different definition, to suit your purposes, does not make them wrong.




yes they messed up because they apparently forgot the part where Jesus came back to life.

we read of animal sacrifices for sins in the old testament. all the "sacrifice" animals died and stayed dead.

and then somebody came up with the idea to introduce a new kind of sacrifice in which the sacrifice comes back to life.



He still died.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 05:21 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: rokkuman
As we keep pointing out, he went through the experience of death.
He died.



He died temporarily.



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