The Immorality Of Eating Meat When There Are Vegi Alternatives Do People Care?

Nowadays you can get man made vegan B12 vitamins BUT if you lived only 100 years ago you couldn't have followed a vegan diet

Actually it is vice versa, if you lived 100 years ago you could just stop eating meat and you will get B12 from soil. Because B12 is in soil, you can also get it now, but it is not advised to do so, since soil is full of poison, rain is acid and there is no way you can find a clean soil that you can eat, and it would be kind of hard to eat soil. But back in 100 days, people were not washing their food with so many clean detergents. Soil was not sprayed with pesticides. And they were eating many raw food direct from dirt.

Thats how cow and all other animals get B12, they eat grass and other stuff to get B12. But animals in the industry dont see a grass, and you wonder how they get B12 and all other vitamins? Answer is very simple, and you and me and everyone who can just sit down and think know what they are giving to those animals. Supplements, and those supplements are for sure not tested how they impact the animal nor how will that meat have effect on humans. Because we knwo that pharmaceutical industry also dont care about human life and they research and security tests are poorly done for human supplements and here we are talking about animal supplements.

a reply to: saadad

A bacteria produces vitamin B12 in the animals guts and we can only ingest it by eating those animal products. Bacteria in our large intestines also produce vitamin B12 but it is not absorbed adequately, hence we need to ingest products that contain it (Brody, Nutritional Biochemistry. 1999 / Armstrong, Absorption of vit B12 1968). Vitamin B12 that was found in soil was not enough to sustain the small levels that our bodies need.

But if you can show me otherwise please do, I am only stating what I have learned but there are always new discoveries in medicine and seeing as I work in a medical profession, new facts are always welcome.

a reply to: Agartha

That is most probably propaganda that we see every day. Claiming something without proof. Not sure what is the reason behind that. But there are proofs that there are religions that don't consume meat, so how did they survive if they religion is several thousands year old?

originally posted by: saadad
a reply to: Agartha

That is most probably propaganda that we see every day. Claiming something without proof. Not sure what is the reason behind that. But there are proofs that there are religions that don't consume meat, so how did they survive if they religion is several thousands year old?

They are/were ovo- lacto vegetarians and get their vitamin B12 from animal products: dairy and eggs.

a reply to: Agartha

Yea some of them. But Jain's were not. They were strict vegan and they didn't even eat plants with root. Like onions garlic...

And they lived 8th century or so before Christ era. So how did they do it?

Edit:
Forgot to say that cow without grass or vitamin supplements can't produce b12 nor any other vitamin found in plants.

So if pigs in box don't get supplements, they die and can not produce b12.

The way the animals are treated is wrong, eating them is not, the alternative for these animals at this point is extinction. If you truly care about helping animals wellbeing that are eaten, stop being a vegetarian, research all the companies that treat the animals we eat humanely, giving them good lives before they die, buy as much from them as you can afford, then also promote these companies around your neighborhood and to your vegetarian friends as well.

Protest the bad inhumane companies while promoting the humane ones and providing free advertizing for them, make inhumane treatment costly while helping the more humane companies cover the more expensive costs of humane treatment with free advertisement.

As long as what you do is remove yourself as a customer there is no reason for inhumane companies to change their policies. It doesn't matter if they give the animals full massages and their own personal field of awesome if you're going to snub them anyway. All you do is effectively remove yourself from ever being a customer at which point they couldn't care one whit what you do, since nothing they do will change your mind anyway.

So what are you left with? Demonizing the people that eat and enjoy their meat, and trying to guilt them into not eating meat like you. You know what happens when you demonize people and guilt them? They get pissed off and do the opposite of what you want and instead think you're a self righteous ass.

Instead of attacking people that eat meat, attack the people actually treating the animals inhumanely, and do what you can to promote those who do treat their livestock well, otherwise, you might as well just not exist for all the good you do to defend animals rights.

Most people have no idea what meat actually comes from humane farmers. It's not well advertised and that which is is often a loopholed lie. Given a choice a lot of people would rather eat and promote the places that treat animals better, we aren't monsters, but what we are is lazy. Most people would care enough to make the right choice if presented to them and simple, but not go so far as to research themselves, nor do a drastic lifestyle change to cut out meat completely.

So making what's good eats more accessible and known is far better than choosing not to eat meat at all and demonizing everyone who does with guilt trip after guilt trip.

Helping others do right, and harming those that do everything they can to promote wrong is far better than making enemies of everyone and putting oneself and their cause on a pedestal of moral superiority.

originally posted by: saadad
a reply to: Agartha

Yea some of them. But Jain's were not. They were strict vegan and they didn't even eat plants with root. Like onions garlic...

And they lived 8th century or so before Christ era. So how did they do it?

Edit:
Forgot to say that cow without grass or vitamin supplements can't produce b12 nor any other vitamin found in plants.

So if pigs in box don't get supplements, they die and can not produce b12.

Jains are lacto vegetarians (I knew some Jains in London and they did drink milk). Here's a link: www.jainfoodie.com...

My friend please try to find some evidence about what you said above, the need for grass to produce vitamin B12, I am really interested in reading about it. Thank you!

"if god din't want us to eat animals why did he make them out of meat?"
Homer Simpson

I like veggies
first though I like to use a cow to gather em up


Ps
I have Aspergers which is related to glutathione imbalances
very red steak is a good source of dietary amino acids like that which cooking kills

having said that
it looks like the basic stone age diet is what the heart guys all say is what we were meant to run on
based on thier comparitive studies

a reply to: Agartha

Yes. Some of the Jains , but some of them don't use milk and are strict vegans, because they see milking the cow as violence. It is as well written in your li k about them.

I don't have physical proof,. But I think that people back then had better gut bacteria, and most probably by eating real food they were able to produce b12.

We can't know unless some of you is natural born vegan without b12 supplements.

a reply to: saadad

folks back then relied on fermentation as storage and used un pasturised products in general
hell they even ate dirt sandwiches
today, I would say corporatization is the real dietary bug baer

i like kafir - fermented milk
all them lil non vegetive things swimmin around
funny enough though ones guts are omnivorous

a reply to: Puppylove

So for you it is perfectly normal to place pigs on a farm and have them for meat. Give them grass and little more space than big meat industry gives, kill them on by your standards human way(not sure which one is that) and then sell this meat for little more bucks, most probably to the rich folks. Because my friend, chicken on natural diet need almost a full year to be ready for harvest, so show me a farmer that produce that while he can use power up chicken food and make his chicken ready for 30 days (yes that is correct number, 30 days for harvest).

And trust me that chicken is not like a chicken we know that was running in our backyard.


And i m not demonizing anyone here, i understand all of you that eat meat, i understand those that eat vegetables and milk, i understand everyone.

I m just here using a bad uncensored language to say what is really going on with meat. Meat eaters can denied my posts.

I m not looking to make enemies, because i love you all. I was a meat eater and much much worse. I was driven just like everyone by my sense, i was slave to my senses and everyone was open to exploit me. Alcohol companies just place a beer advertising on my Mind Control box (read TV) and i was next day (if not same day) buying beer. So i know, it is hard to take control over your body and mind and it is even harder to understand who you really are and how to love your own specie. Because it is hard to love people that destroy other people, kill, cheat, exploit, and i m not yet there, that why my posts in this topic sound so aggressive toward meat eaters. But i m working on it.

The same way every human should work on it self.
Do you really need to drink beer?
Do you really need to eat meat?
Do you really need that candy?

Answer is no. But the question is if you want to change. Rich people have money to buy crap, luxury and stuff so they dont look for change and poor people have no money for change and need to eat what is thrown to them. This is the world we are living at. And there is few people that are lsot int he middle.

a reply to: saadad

when its cheaper to eat vegan and natural then it is to eat a diet of meat and veggies you might have a leg to stand on,

You talk about the elite and the rich, yet it actually takes MORE money to lead a vegan/natural /anti GMO lifestyle...


I slaughter my own, I know where my meat comes from, I kill a beef every year and butcher my own hogs to fill my freezer.....

That doesnt make me less of a person than you...

Being Vegan doesnt make you a better person than me....

That doesnt make me a slave to ANYTHING , I like a healthy balance of veggies meats and dairy....thats the lifestyle I lead and its kept me healthy

I see a lot of intolerance from people that claim to be tolerant of other peoples lifestyles....(im not saying this is you, just in general)

a reply to: saadad

Eventually we move to space colonize other planets, the animals that come with us will be food or pets, that's it.

I like animals, and domestication is not a crime, it's creating a world and a future where more than us exist.

Shocking news that meat may cause cancer, could this be natures way of getting humans to stop eating meat? Does this news make anyone think again about eating meat? Would you be more willing to eat a non cancer causing alternative?

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

There is no news story, no body of individuals, no lobby group or zealot on the Earth, who has the power to prevent me from eating what I choose, when I choose, and how I choose.

They can try to stop me eating red meat, but only if they are willing to get torn limb from limb to prevent it.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Shocking news that meat may cause cancer, could this be natures way of getting humans to stop eating meat? Does this news make anyone think again about eating meat? Would you be more willing to eat a non cancer causing alternative?

Nope, no impact on my habits whatsoever, really.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Shocking news that meat may cause cancer, could this be natures way of getting humans to stop eating meat? Does this news make anyone think again about eating meat? Would you be more willing to eat a non cancer causing alternative?

So does everything else these days...Even looking at the Stars might give it.

The care with the stopping of eating meat, if there is any vs media hyperbole as speculated by some, won't be for animal welfare or for the health of people. Maybe it would come elsewhere with control for carbon(methane emissions) issues and more.

It is quite normal for human beings to eat meat, it is not immoral, it is part of the food chain.
In fact, you'll do it without hesitation or die during wartime or crisis, suddenly cats and rats become the most delicious food you could imagine.
In the end we are not ideal thinkers but fighters in order to survive

Does meat cause cancer? there is a 'may' and 'could' in that message.
I've read that in the report it is mentioned that the chance of cancer is suspected to rise with 18 percent, so a person of 40 years old with a 1% chance of getting cancer will have a chance of 1,18 percent if he eats meat.
18 percent of 1 percent is 0,18 percent.

That 18 percent rise in chance might be perceived as shocking but it is laughable and may, could, be the case.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

It started in the 60s when we started adding chemistry to our food in earnest.
THEN cancer SHOT up.