Why Are Minimum Wage Jobs Advertised As A Career?

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc
Every time we have the debate on "The Minimum Wage" im often met with the opinion that "Oh, its not a career flipping burgers, that's why you're paid so little" - Clearly people trying to justify for multinational companies to pay you peanuts and have your government top up your wages so it doesn't eat into their profit margin.

A career typically has promotions involved. If you start flipping burgers at 17 for minimum wage and you are still flipping burgers at 30 for minimum wage who is to blame?

a reply to: Xtrozero

The cow for becomeing a burger ?

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Xtrozero

The cow for becomeing a burger ?

You got me there..

hopefully you are flipping burgers in your own restaurant since learning all you need to learn back when you were a low income hourly worker...

originally posted by: stosh64

originally posted by: TycoonBarnaby
a reply to: stosh64

The reality is most US citizens cannot compete on the global scale. Adapt or face the consequences.

We will all face the consequences soon. On a global scale.

I agree, I have seen it coming for years. So have those I power hence the patriot act and the militarized police etc....

Why not just pay people better and avoid all of this?

I don't get the mindset at all.

All this can and would go away tomorrow if they simply paid a livable wage....

Instead, they keep raping the workers for their labors and plan bugout locations?

There is no fort that can't be broken.

No army of the few can stand against the many.

They need us, we do not need them....

What is this so hard to understand?

originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: AnuTyr

This person is unwilling to look at the facts of the economy as reported by the bureau of labor statistics. They are unwilling to recognize that we have lost our purchasing power as a nation and our currency is dieing because investors are looking for alternatives. They dont want to believe that 69% of our economy is now service sector based, oil companies are now laying off, factories and other companies are still moving offshore, the local governments are not small business friendly, its harder and more expensive then ever to get a small startup off the ground, millennials are not buying houses, the middle class is dead.

No no its all because people are lazy and stupid and i dont feel like taking a more honest look at what people are saying. Id rather just use my own experience as anecdotal evidence that the world is perfect and then i want to call people names.

We've lost purchasing power? Poor people today live better than the middle class 50 years ago. The only reason anyone has lost purchasing power is because they want to live a certain lifestyle. Air conditioning, flat screen TVs, cell phones, multiple pairs of sneakers, Playstations, cars, 3000 square foot houses, etc.

They also live better than they did 150 years ago...or 500 years ago... Hell they live better than cave men...I mean why should someone working full time in the modern world be allowed to live like a modern human?

I mean right, they should be in a cave hunting and gathering after slaving away for others to live in absolute luxury.

It isn't like they are working or something.

I mean hell, they get to see people driving cars while they walk to and from work everyday rain or shine...wtf do these want?

Lazy bastards...expecting to be able to afford food shelter and transportation after working fulltime.

Go ahead and keep ignoring reality. Go to Dominican Republic, Haiti, or some other third world shiz hole and then we can talk about what it means to be poor. A hoodrat in Chicago who can get her hair and nails done every week, use an EBT card, live in the housing projects with refrigeration, air conditioning, toilet, watch TV on a flat screen, use an iPhone, while her kid plays on the Xbox is not poor. Yeah, she may be struggling compared to many other people, but they ain't poor. A kid I mentored whose mother was on Section 8 had a nicer apartment than I had when I graduated from college and started working making $50k/yr.

I went to the Dominican Republic and saw dirty azz kids running around buck naked in a sugar cane field while their parents worked it. Felt like I had been transported back in time to a slave plantation. The workers lived in rusted out tin huts with no electricity or running water. That's poor.

The poor today in America live better than the middle and upper classes did 50 years ago. The cost of many luxury items that we take for granted that make life much easier are completely accessible by the poorest Americans. Iphones. TVs. Cars. Air Conditioning. Refrigeration. Housing. No it may not be the nicest or latest model, but I get sick of people here acting like they can't make it.

We live in a country where people are willing to float on innertubes across shark infested waters to get the opportunities we have, yet some people here are so blind they can't see what they do have out of envy and jealously of others.

Life is what you make of it. No one owes you shiz. You have to get out and make your own way. Life is also not fair. Get over it.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Wealthy people don't take these jobs. Even if wealthy people all of a sudden lost everything most of them would get their money back in a few years. Why? Because their attitude towards money is different than people who have a 'poor' mindset.

It wouldn't occur to me to take one of these minimum wage jobs. I would rather go out and earn my own money as an entrepreneur or hustle for a better, smarter way.

It reminds me of the people in school who settled for B's and C's. The people who work harder and make better decisions have better results.

Wrong sir. The 1% don't play by the same rules - legally or economically. Wealthy people get their money back and/or never lose much because there are two separate economic marketplaces - one for the rich 1% and one for the rest of us.

Look up Econophysics (physics applied to economic and financial problems).

By the way I do see a common trend in 20 somethings being stuck in crappy jobs.


They get a #ty degree in some libral arts mumbo jumbo.

Im 27 and most my age stuck in dead end jobs have that theme.


On the other hand those like me that got a degree in the sciences are earning pretty good money.


Leason?

Choose your degree well.

originally posted by: infinityorder

Why not just pay people better and avoid all of this?

I don't get the mindset at all.

I don't know, maybe because they can't and still stay in business?

originally posted by: crazyewok
By the way I do see a common trend in 20 somethings being stuck in crappy jobs.


They get a #ty degree in some libral arts mumbo jumbo.

Im 27 and most my age stuck in dead end jobs have that theme.

I call this screwed by the school syndrome. A college tells people that they can get a degree that will get them 100k a year to start, and all they need to do is work for 4 or 5 years and pay 60k. Then the person takes their basket weaving degree and find they qualify for flipping burgers with it.

If you are in a degree program and by your junior year you do not have companies coming to you, you are in the wrong degree. Also if you think degrees with engineering, DR, MBA and a few others as part of their name too hard.. DO NOT GO TO COLLEGE!!! Go to a trade school and become a 100 bucks an hour plummer...lord...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: infinityorder

It's not about becoming CEO. It's simple. If you are a good employee, even the burger hut will try to keep you there. They will do this by offering you raises or promotions. It's not about screwing people either.

All you have to do is show up on time and work hard. Unless of course, you think having simple work ethic means screwing over other people who don't.

My husband has done it at every workplace he's been at so far. He goes on time, works long hours, takes responsibility where it needs to be taken. That's it. It works. He doesn't need to screw anyone, and at present he has been responsibly for the creation of 6 new jobs because of the value in his position that he created. So no, you don't need to screw anyone.

Most corps like mcds Walmart etc only give raises in measured amounts in measured periods...ie...even the best can only get a $0.25 raise every 6 months....this doesn't even meet the inflation over the same time scale.

So no they don't.

Good on you and your hubby, but just because it happened for you doesn't meen it can happen for all.

What is wrong with every worker who works and shows up in time being able to live a modern life?

Again, the ideologue bootstrappers have it only partially right... some people have terrible work ethics and/or crappy educations, but I'd argue that there are reasons for it beyond being "inferior."

Once in poverty, one's surroundings are ...poor... one only gets their info (i.e. personality programming) from their surroundings. They don't have access to the very info ( including social norms, contacts, possibilities) that enables one to learn to exploit others and the system for their own benefit.

True, some lucky, industrious, brilliant souls have climbed the miles high, far spaced rungs and inverted 80 degree ladder out of subsistence level drudgery... but really, haven't we progressed to the point where we can have the largess to grant full person-hood and some measure of security to all?

Also, some of the "demeaning" jobs, like sanitation and utility and some low paying humanitarian jobs, are done by perfectly smart, capable people who work these jobs because they see it as a service to society. I get ticked off when smug, affluent folks look down on "service jobs"... or anything not paying 6 figures... where would they be without the lowly service jobs that keep the machine of society going? And we pay those folks so much less...why exactly?

Anyway... it's common sense that widely distributed goods benefits all, and hoarded goods cause deprivation... as in death, and at the least suffering... the people with the most stuff are the most ruthless and will not just give it away because it is "right." The re-distribution of wealth has been done all along and when it was at it's height, society was healthier... we are moving past the need for slave labor... we should grant everyone security, at the least.

originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: infinityorder

It's not about becoming CEO. It's simple. If you are a good employee, even the burger hut will try to keep you there. They will do this by offering you raises or promotions. It's not about screwing people either.

All you have to do is show up on time and work hard. Unless of course, you think having simple work ethic means screwing over other people who don't.

My husband has done it at every workplace he's been at so far. He goes on time, works long hours, takes responsibility where it needs to be taken. That's it. It works. He doesn't need to screw anyone, and at present he has been responsibly for the creation of 6 new jobs because of the value in his position that he created. So no, you don't need to screw anyone.

Most corps like mcds Walmart etc only give raises in measured amounts in measured periods...ie...even the best can only get a $0.25 raise every 6 months....this doesn't even meet the inflation over the same time scale.

So no they don't.

Good on you and your hubby, but just because it happened for you doesn't meen it can happen for all.

What is wrong with every worker who works and shows up in time being able to live a modern life?[/quote

Because no one is owed anything. No one is owed some minimum living standard. Certain jobs are not designed for anyone to "live on."

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: AnuTyr

This person is unwilling to look at the facts of the economy as reported by the bureau of labor statistics. They are unwilling to recognize that we have lost our purchasing power as a nation and our currency is dieing because investors are looking for alternatives. They dont want to believe that 69% of our economy is now service sector based, oil companies are now laying off, factories and other companies are still moving offshore, the local governments are not small business friendly, its harder and more expensive then ever to get a small startup off the ground, millennials are not buying houses, the middle class is dead.

No no its all because people are lazy and stupid and i dont feel like taking a more honest look at what people are saying. Id rather just use my own experience as anecdotal evidence that the world is perfect and then i want to call people names.

We've lost purchasing power? Poor people today live better than the middle class 50 years ago. The only reason anyone has lost purchasing power is because they want to live a certain lifestyle. Air conditioning, flat screen TVs, cell phones, multiple pairs of sneakers, Playstations, cars, 3000 square foot houses, etc.

They also live better than they did 150 years ago...or 500 years ago... Hell they live better than cave men...I mean why should someone working full time in the modern world be allowed to live like a modern human?

I mean right, they should be in a cave hunting and gathering after slaving away for others to live in absolute luxury.

It isn't like they are working or something.

I mean hell, they get to see people driving cars while they walk to and from work everyday rain or shine...wtf do these want?

Lazy bastards...expecting to be able to afford food shelter and transportation after working fulltime.

Go ahead and keep ignoring reality. Go to Dominican Republic, Haiti, or some other third world shiz hole and then we can talk about what it means to be poor. A hoodrat in Chicago who can get her hair and nails done every week, use an EBT card, live in the housing projects with refrigeration, air conditioning, toilet, watch TV on a flat screen, use an iPhone, while her kid plays on the Xbox is not poor. Yeah, she may be struggling compared to many other people, but they ain't poor. A kid I mentored whose mother was on Section 8 had a nicer apartment than I had when I graduated from college and started working making $50k/yr.

I went to the Dominican Republic and saw dirty azz kids running around buck naked in a sugar cane field while their parents worked it. Felt like I had been transported back in time to a slave plantation. The workers lived in rusted out tin huts with no electricity or running water. That's poor.

The poor today in America live better than the middle and upper classes did 50 years ago. The cost of many luxury items that we take for granted that make life much easier are completely accessible by the poorest Americans. Iphones. TVs. Cars. Air Conditioning. Refrigeration. Housing. No it may not be the nicest or latest model, but I get sick of people here acting like they can't make it.

We live in a country where people are willing to float on innertubes across shark infested waters to get the opportunities we have, yet some people here are so blind they can't see what they do have out of envy and jealously of others.

Life is what you make of it. No one owes you shiz. You have to get out and make your own way. Life is also not fair. Get over it.

First off that is a straw man argument, and sorry added on at that.

This is the Dominican republic.

We are talking america.

In the Dominican republic american minimum wage would provide a very good life.

So if you want to compare them compare that aspect.

People in America should not have to live like those in the Dominican republic just because they aren't on the few upper rungs of the ladder.

No business could even run without the lowest level...meaning they serve a required need in the workforce... Thus deserve to live a decent life.

You are the one that made comparisons outside of modern 1rst world life, don't try to turn it around.

Today if parents in america don't meet a minimum standard of living they will have their kids taken and thrown into the hellish world of state sponsored child sex slavery and abuse...I mean state sponsored childcare, where almost 80% go on to guaranteed crime and suffering.

You cannot enforce a standard of living that almost half of working folks cannot meet because the jobs that pay enough for this don't exist.

The system itself is broken.

Those at the top will give more...or something bad is going to happen.

There is a tremendously large amount of historical data that not only backs this up, but says when conditions reach the level they are at this exact moment in time, will always result in the same thing I am warning about.

There is a minimum level of life any given society will except, once that threshold is crossed...well the French revolution comes to mind... As well as about a dozen others, just in western civilization.

Nearly half of people are hungry, nearly half work a full week and don't make enough to live a modern western life.

The scales are about to tip....it will come fast and hard, without mercy or care, as it always does.

Don't want to see this myself, but won't weep for the bodies in the streets either.

Pay your workers a livable wage no probs, keep it all while they starve......don't act like you don't deserve their malice.

Make no mistake, the upper class is going to find out the hard way.... They always do.

This is a historical fact.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: crazyewok
By the way I do see a common trend in 20 somethings being stuck in crappy jobs.


They get a #ty degree in some libral arts mumbo jumbo.

Im 27 and most my age stuck in dead end jobs have that theme.

I call this screwed by the school syndrome. A college tells people that they can get a degree that will get them 100k a year to start, and all they need to do is work for 4 or 5 years and pay 60k. Then the person takes their basket weaving degree and find they qualify for flipping burgers with it.

If you are in a degree program and by your junior year you do not have companies coming to you, you are in the wrong degree. Also if you think degrees with engineering, DR, MBA and a few others as part of their name too hard.. DO NOT GO TO COLLEGE!!! Go to a trade school and become a 100 bucks an hour plummer...lord...

I don't know of any university that tells students they will make 100k a year for the non-hard sciences (even for most of those, BS is not enough for the 6 figures positions.) I don't understand the mindset of blaming institutions of higher education (except for raising tuition in lock-step with the government increasing federal loans, but the schools still never guaranteed anything but an education.)

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Edumakated

What world are you living in the 1950's or 2015?

Theres no upward mobility anymore give me a break.

There is plenty of upward mobility for those that are willing to work hard. There is no upward mobility for the weak, lazy, and stupid. If you can't run with the big dogs, get off the porch.

I dont know how much you make. Remember there are others out there that make three times as much as you who believe the reason you cant make more than you do is because you are weak, lazy and stupid. And they dont want you on their porch.

a reply to: infinityorder

And why does everyone think they need everything in order to live their life?

I only got a cell phone last year. It's just a basic flip phone, not a smart. I only have it because his job pays for contract, and we could add it in for an extra $30/month which is all we pay. Otherwise, I wouldn't have it.

But I see plenty of people who work those jobs you are talking about who have their smart phones.

I don't get my hair done every week or my nails ever. But they do.

I don't wear name brands. But they do.

I drive a compact car that's over 10 years old and paid for. They drive newer SUVs.

So, it seems I am living under the "basic" standard they seem to expect. Am I going to be given more to bring my standard of living up to par? Somehow, I doubt it because we make enough to be taxed to pay for their "sub-par" existence.

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

I know it is an old, out of fashion concept, but a person entering the work force usually started at the bottom. Once they proved their worth at that level and stayed with the job (an important aspect), they moved on up to bigger and better positions due to a normal rotation of older, higher-place employees retired or left the business.

I know people that started in those sorts of jobs and in a couple of years became the store managers. No great talent was involved, merely dedication to the job they were given. Being there on time and as required is a very important aspect of those low-end jobs.

originally posted by: Edumakated
We've lost purchasing power? Poor people today live better than the middle class 50 years ago. The only reason anyone has lost purchasing power is because they want to live a certain lifestyle. Air conditioning, flat screen TVs, cell phones, multiple pairs of sneakers, Playstations, cars, 3000 square foot houses, etc.

An increase in the quality of goods doesn't mean an increase in purchasing power. The median income in the US today of $50,000 has lower purchasing power than minimum wage in 1955.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Define reasonable.

Also, even someone with no skills can distinguish themselves from someone else who has no skills. They learn the job, they show up on time every time. They work more efficiently. They put in the extra time when the rest of the people refuse to show up. They offer to learn other skills above and beyond what their job requires.

All these are ways to pull yourself up over the rest. If you are perpetually in last place, maybe you ought to be asking yourself why. And for those who are in such a physical/mental condition that they truly cannot help but be in last place ... well, they should be helped by society.

Reasonable is the ability to afford food, shelter, and transportation without a government subsidy as well as be able to participate in an economy that is based around the service sector.

As far as distinguishing yourself from a person with no skills, I think you missed the point. If everyone knows how to flip burgers, knowing that skill no longer has an value. If everyone is capable of proofreading then the skill has no value. When everyone has a HS diploma that ceases to have value. Regardless of the criteria, once it is something many people have it ceases to have value, so that even if it results in a skill it is still not worth a wage.

Taking this further, if everyone distinguishes themselves from the pack, someone will still lose. By definition someone has to be in last place and someone has to be in second to last place all the way up to there being one person in first place. Someone must come in last place, and by definition about 33% of people will be below average while another 33% will be average, and another 33% above average. Capitalism is designed to create losers, in the system as it is currently set up in the US 5% of people are seeing their purchasing power increase, 5% are seeing it remain the same, and 90% are seeing it go backwards. That means that 90% of people are losing, even though they are working hard, improving themselves, seeking new skills, and obtaining education.

originally posted by: TycoonBarnaby
I don't know of any university that tells students they will make 100k a year for the non-hard sciences (even for most of those, BS is not enough for the 6 figures positions.) I don't understand the mindset of blaming institutions of higher education (except for raising tuition in lock-step with the government increasing federal loans, but the schools still never guaranteed anything but an education.)

Why do Universities have degrees that are not marketable? A big chunk of the 99%ers are disillusion college grads that hit the real work with crap degrees. Do you think the colleges say..hey this is a crap degree but you can work to get it and get a crap job...

originally posted by: TycoonBarnaby

originally posted by: Toadmund

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Edumakated

What world are you living in the 1950's or 2015?

Theres no upward mobility anymore give me a break.

There is plenty of upward mobility for those that are willing to work hard. There is no upward mobility for the weak, lazy, and stupid. If you can't run with the big dogs, get off the porch. Those things you mentioned are what drive our economy. If as you say we just leave the cars, internet, cell phones and ownership of homes to those who make excellent pay then those same people would begin to lose their jobs because the economy would tank. It would affect everyone but the poor cuzz, really, they are used to it. Your argument is self defeating.

Some of us don't live to work, we work to live.

We should be able to live, why must we run with 'those' dogs.

ANY job should be a job that people can live off of, YOU are selling your labour, for your benefit.
Unfortunately it's not usually beneficial for you, but mostly for them.
Parasites of society, the banks, corporations etc. They suck our life blood and they want us to play THEIR game?!

(Insert bad word) THEM!

What do you mean by "live"? What do you require to live? Do you need the internet, a TV, a car, etc?
Poverty level in the US is still so far beyond just living, surely you are actually saying you require more than just living for doing something a machine could do instead of you.

If all the people who you say shouldnt be spending on other than necessary ie. internet, phones,cars and home ownership were to stop buying these extravagancies it would put the economy in a tail spin. These are the bread and butter of our economy now. If all quit buying them it would affect you greatly. The poor wouldnt notice since they are used to it. They would adapt much quicker than their "betters" who are really dependant on such things.