Perfection or Imperfection? Can you follow the one you have not known? Once Saved always Saved? NO!

a reply to: WarminIndy

Who then are the enemies of God?

Did you notice my use of the word, like?
It's metaphor, and if you cannot understand that, then I would suggest that you not try to discuss the Bible because it would be impossible for you to understand it since you can only see things in the most literal way, which is not how it was written to be understood.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: WarminIndy

Who then are the enemies of God?

Did you notice my use of the word, like?
It's metaphor, and if you cannot understand that, then I would suggest that you not try to discuss the Bible because it would be impossible for you to understand it since you can only see things in the most literal way, which is not how it was written to be understood.

Yes, you said "like a warrior" but a warrior needs enemies, so metaphorically there needs to be enemies. Are there?

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
I hope all you people realize the only ex-muslim among you realized the second she was graced with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that all these things were way above her pay grade.

I cannot tell the difference between God the Holy Spirit and Jesus....and God doesn't care. HE knows I am human, and to me this is all I can understand.. Its okay regardless of what the actual truth is. One day I will find out perhaps, although I don't think I will care then either.

What matters, is HIM. What matters, is we deserve none of this which we were so freely given.

Well I seem to be the only ex Christian here tonight... and I do agree

these arguments don't matter because there is only one truth....

Personally I find that calling Jesus God makes him a liar by omission... and takes glory from the Father who is the true God

We should glorify the son, without a doubt... but even he gave the glory to the Father, and kept none for himself...

The trinity takes away from the greatness of the ONE

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy

Mistranslated word or not, who is the father of Jesus?

God of course.... but that does not make him God as well...

there is ONE God... Jesus is not him... There is no triune God...

There is the Father who is the true God, the son who sits at the right hand of God... and the holy spirit...

Three does not equal one... its as simple as that...

Oh... and the OT tyrant isn't God either, but that's not what were talking about here

And you just said over on another thread that God is a title, not a name.

Well now, contradict yourself.

Three equals one, if you multiply. 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

But you, as you are a man, you still have more than one part of you but it still makes one. The sum of the parts.....

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
I hope all you people realize the only ex-muslim among you realized the second she was graced with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that all these things were way above her pay grade.

I cannot tell the difference between God the Holy Spirit and Jesus....and God doesn't care. HE knows I am human, and to me this is all I can understand.. Its okay regardless of what the actual truth is. One day I will find out perhaps, although I don't think I will care then either.

What matters, is HIM. What matters, is we deserve none of this which we were so freely given.

Well I seem to be the only ex Christian here tonight... and I do agree

these arguments don't matter because there is only one truth....

Personally I find that calling Jesus God makes him a liar by omission... and takes glory from the Father who is the true God

We should glorify the son, without a doubt... but even he gave the glory to the Father, and kept none for himself...

The trinity takes away from the greatness of the ONE

He shared the glory.

You can't share unless you both have it. And if they both had the glory, then it is mutual.

a reply to: WarminIndy

And you just said over on another thread that God is a title, not a name.

Well now, contradict yourself.

that was last night actually... and it is not a contradiction of anything I've said tonight

Three equals one, if you multiply. 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

That would be multiplying something by itself... Jesus is Not the Father... The Father is not Jesus... The holy spirit is neither... Logic fail... but nice try

But you, as you are a man, you still have more than one part of you but it still makes one. The sum of the parts.....

I am not God either, Only a part of him... as you are a part of him...

And Jesus was, and is a part of him... but not all of him

a reply to: WarminIndy

He shared the glory.

You can't share unless you both have it. And if they both had the glory, then it is mutual.

No he did not...

Read the gospels... He gave all the glory to the Father...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy

And you just said over on another thread that God is a title, not a name.

Well now, contradict yourself.

that was last night actually... and it is not a contradiction of anything I've said tonight

Three equals one, if you multiply. 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

That would be multiplying something by itself... Jesus is Not the Father... The Father is not Jesus... The holy spirit is neither... Logic fail... but nice try

But you, as you are a man, you still have more than one part of you but it still makes one. The sum of the parts.....

I am not God either, Only a part of him... as you are a part of him...

And Jesus was, and is a part of him... but not all of him

Show me anywhere that I have ever said Jesus is the Father?

I never said that, you are imagining I would say such a thing.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Show me anywhere that I have ever said Jesus is the Father?

I never said that, you are imagining I would say such a thing.

Your equation...

1x1x1=1

that is multiplying something by itself...

Logically that would mean the Father is the son is the holy spirit... which is why I said "logic fail"

You really should read what I write... and your own posts before hitting reply hun

a reply to: Akragon

Let me try. Sometimes, our Father acts as our teacher so that we can make it home safe. Sometimes our Father is not with us so we have to call HIM on the cell phone. And sometimes, we are with our Father curled up in HIS lap because we are HOME.

Sometimes, our Father acts as our teacher so that we can make it home safe = Jesus

Sometimes our Father is not with us so we have to call HIM on the cell phone = the Holy Spirit

And sometimes, we are with our Father curled up in HIS lap because we are HOME = Our Father who art in heaven.



This is the best I got and all I can see when I see them. None of this takes away from the Father.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy

He shared the glory.

You can't share unless you both have it. And if they both had the glory, then it is mutual.

No he did not...

Read the gospels... He gave all the glory to the Father...

1 Chronicles 19:11 Thine, O Lord is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art exalted as head above all.

Head above all what?

2 Chronicles 5:14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.

The Holy Spirit manifested physically.

Psalm 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Who was this?

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name

Who shall be called, that the Lord shall name?

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Comes in whose glory?

Didn't give it back, He's coming in the glory of God the Father. That's the Gospel right there.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Lovely... My turn

The only way anyone knows about Jesus is through the words written in the bible... without which Jesus would not be anyone... but God still exists

Jesus did not consider himself God... He knew who he was... God was not who he thought he was...

this concept was something that the early church figured out, then enforced at the edge of a sword waaaay back in the early few centuries of Christianity... This is all documented as well... easily researched if one is so inclined to look...

Christians do not want to look, and the ones that actually do usually end up leaving the religion because eventually they see the hypocrisy that is rife within the halls of the churches of that religion...

Jesus IS the son of God... it is what he called himself... His words will change a person's life... and I am living evidence of that... And for that he is the saviour of the world to me... and anyone who bothers to actually read and try to understand what he taught...

But to Call him God is insulting, not only to God but to anyone who can read...

Now of course this is only my opinion for what its worth... IF you want to call him God feel free

I will not... HE is the Son of God... His Father is God

a reply to: WarminIndy

That is the OLD testament... means nothing

Didn't give it back, He's coming in the glory of God the Father. That's the Gospel right there.

One passage from Mark...

In the glory OF the Father... Its his Glory, giving to the son...

Not the other way around.... He kept no glory for himself, but glorified God... Even said the work he was doing was not his own... but the Fathers work

a reply to: Akragon

I only read your first sentence and it is absolutely and 100% incorrect. I will not read nor entertain the rest when the very first sentence is a lie.

Jesus came to me. THAT is why I believe.. not because I read it in a book. But because HE is a LIVING Word and speaks!

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Fine with me...

Didn't you say in a thread you wrote, that he came to you in a dream?

Im not denying he was a person... and obviously he is alive...

And im not knocking your experience either...

this is just what I've been shown... and not by man

a reply to: WarminIndy

Buddha only claimed to be a man. I am well aware of who Christ claimed to be and I believe Christ is the Light, just like he claimed to be.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy

To you not get tired of circular reasoning?

Sigh...

Fine... I am a man...

And you are a man because....?

You are a man because your father was a man. That's how it works, the last time I saw.

that is such a weak argument

Again... Even IF the virgin birth was real, which it clearly is not... that does not make Jesus God

What don't you understand about that?

The virgin birth is real, and is confirmed in multiple texts, not just the OT and NT.

a reply to: Akragon

HE first came to me in a dream, of which I posted on ATS the morning after I dreamed it. The next morning after posting, I understood the meaning of the dream and was saved.

1 week after I was saved I was graced with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and have been able to talk to HIM ever since.

HE is alive and not dead, and my understanding came from HIM and not a book.

You said the book is the only way men have to know anything about Jesus, and this is decidedly not true.

The only way anyone knows about Jesus is through the words written in the bible... without which Jesus would not be anyone

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Who am I to say it didn't happen...

that's great for you... Im glad you came to a life changing experience...

From what I read it was much needed

You said the book is the only way men have to know anything about Jesus, and this is decidedly not true.

generally speaking yes.... IF the bible didn't exist... Jesus would have been just another person lost to history and time

And Even IF it didn't exist, and he came to you... no one would know who or what you're talking about anyways

but again im glad you had this experience

a reply to: Akragon

For what it is, I am simply grateful. Yes, it was needed as there is no other way to God than through Jesus.