Perfection or Imperfection? Can you follow the one you have not known? Once Saved always Saved? NO!

This is a long post but I hope many of you will take the time to read. I ask that anyone who believes in perfection, the call to be Holy, the call to overcome sin Like Christ, please respond with an Amen. My prayer is that our brothers that our stuck in their sinful minds might be freed from the maddening wine of original sin, so they can see clearly the one who is perfect, the one who lives within, Christ Jesus. Here is another testimony by someone who believes in life without sin. clarion-call.org...

Many of you will be hearing about a Christ and a Holy Spirit that you have yet to believe in, even though you claim to believe. Everyone who teaches or attends a Christian church is following King Constantine's Religion.

All Christian denominations claim that we will remain in a fallen state, unable to overcome all sin. The church teaches that you will always be a failure and that you need their help to understand the one who is in you. By going to church, paying your tithes and getting baptized you are saved. Then they argue about if this salvation is eternal, because they do not understand the salvation found in Christ.

Jesus Christ taught that men could follow the Light within them to perfection. He claimed that he was that perfect Light. The teaching of Christ is to become perfect Like him. He was born perfect, we are born imperfect. Through the Holy Spirit we can become perfect like him.

Matthew 5:48 You therefore must be PERFECT, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

1 John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he CANNOT KEEP SINNING because he has been born of God.

1 John 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God DOES NOT KEEP SINNING but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Exodus 20:20 Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that YOU MAY NOT SIN.”

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? BY NO MEANS! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Romans 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves DEAD TO SIN and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:15-16 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? BY NO MEANS! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

James 1:4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be PERFECT and complete, lacking in nothing.

Do the pastors at church even know him? If your pastor teaches that you will always fail because we are fallen and cannot overcome sin then he is a liar. He has not known Christ he knows only the religion of King Constantine. Every denomination teaches this, therefore all are liars and thieves. The Levites who received the Tithe were doctors, judges and priests. Why do today's priests expect the same 10% when they do only 1/3 the job?

1 John 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; NO ONE WHO KEEPS ON SINNING HAS EITHER SEEN HIM OR KNOWN HIM.

John 9:31 We know that GOD DOES NOT LISTEN TO SINNERS, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and YOUR SINS HAVE HIDDEN HIS FACE FROM YOU so that he does not hear.

Job 8:20 “Behold, God will not reject a blameless man, NOR TAKE THE HAND OF EVILDOERS.

Romans 12:1-2 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Isaiah 1:16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil,

Since it is clear the entire Christian church is full of sinners who have been baptized into failure how can you know Christ and who can teach you about Christ?

John 14:15-16 “If you love me, YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper (THE HOLY SPIRIT), to be with you forever.

The ONLY WAY TO RECIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IS TO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. If you believe that a ritual could bring the gift of the Holy Spirit you have been deceived.

Psalm 51:16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire-- but my ears you have opened -- burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Hebrews 10:4-7 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. 7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll, I have come to do your will, my God.’”

Jesus is telling the people that sacrifices on the alter don't eliminate sin from one's mind. Sacrificing yourself for the will of your father does please God. And what is the will of the father, to lay down your life for brotherly love and humanity, to be Like Christ. To follow Christ is to overcome sin.

Luke 6:40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.

James 4:8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

1 Corinthians 15:34 Wake up from your drunken stupor, as is right, and do not go on sinning. For some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

Continued *****

Your pastors tell you to come to them for wisdom. Their wisdom leaves you on a path of imperfection, never realizing that perfection is within reach because perfection lives in you. By their teaching they prove they do not follow the perfect Light within.

I however do know God, I have seen him, and he does talk with me. I will not claim that I have reached perfection, nor did Paul, but certainly I also don't claim that I will not reach perfection. I have been promised that the Holy Spirit will guide my path to perfection so perfection is the goal. I am the prophet, Christ Jesus is the teacher within you. James says for a man to be perfect he must not stumble in his words or actions. I do not see this as impossible, nor should anyone else.

Perfection lives in you, perfection is the goal. If you believe that failure to obey the commandments has been preordained by Original Sin then you do not live according to the Holy Spirit, nor have you been baptized by him.

14 How, then, can you call on the one you have not believed in? And how can you believe in the one of whom you have not heard? And how can you hear without someone preaching to you? And how can someone preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

James 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

James 4:17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

If you have yet to believe in perfection then you have yet to be saved. Salvation is knowing that you belong to heaven. Salvation is following the Light and receiving the Holy Spirit. A man who is bound to sin does not know salvation, nor can he teach it to you. It is only those who believe in perfection who know the truth.

If you believe in the perfection, and have ears to hear the call to Holiness, then you will set yourself on a path to perfection, believing by faith that the perfect light can perfect you. Once you receive the knowledge of perfection if you turn away from the pursuit of the Light, there is no other Light that can bring you back to salvation. Salvation is found in the Light, and the Light is perfect.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

Ezekiel 18 21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.

If you have believed in the perfect Light and obeyed his commands, but then turn from perfection and throw yourself back into sin, who will bring you back to believe in perfection?

If you have not believed that you could follow the commands perfectly than you have not been saved. Your rituals have no value because you remain in sin. You have not yet understood the sacrifice that you are to imitate. You are to die to your desires and be reborn into a covenant with the perfect Holy Spirit. Only then will you be a light to your brothers. You must remove the sin from your eyes before you can remove the sin from your brother.

I have taught you the truth and charged you nothing for it. I have claimed to be a prophet many times, but NO ONE IS LISTENING. I can teach the world how to find the light and I can prove that every pastor lies when he says he knows what he is teaching.

You can continue to follow men who claim they cannot overcome sin, or you can follow the Light who can teach you to overcome all sin.

Ah I see. So all I need to do is get saved and then I can go murder, rape and steal to my heart's content.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Ah I see. So all I need to do is get saved and then I can go murder, rape and steal to my heart's content.

It is obvious that you read nothing and you have made yourself look ignorant.

a reply to: sacgamer25

Zeitgeist again.

Listen, I am going to use the mantra of ATS, all the banners and ads say this now...

EXPOSING BS ONE T**** AT A TIME.

Listen up, get over the misinformation, disinformation and historical inaccuracies once and for all.....Constantine DID NOT make a new religion. Constantine DID NOT make the Bible, Constantine DID NOT convert to Christianity until he was dying...

And further more...since you guys never read history nor do you know what is going on now....Constantine was BYZANTINE and NOT of the Roman rite.

How many times do I have to get on here and tell the same people over and over and over what they fail to understand?

Byzantine is EASTERN ORTHODOX, so unless you are talking to Russians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Estonians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Finns, Turks or anyone else from the EASTERN ROMAN empire that Constantine was emperor over.

You attacked Roman Catholics and didn't even know that Constatine was never in the Roman rite church in the Vatican. Sorry, he was in Turkey. Now, go on with the rest of it, but because you said King Constatine's religion, I had to make you aware of your fallacy.

originally posted by: sacgamer25

originally posted by: ketsuko
Ah I see. So all I need to do is get saved and then I can go murder, rape and steal to my heart's content.

It is obvious that you read nothing and you have made yourself look ignorant.

No more so than you did the other day.

You can find God, and you can accept His presence inside you. None of that makes you perfect in your daily living. It will save you.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: sacgamer25

Zeitgeist again.

Listen, I am going to use the mantra of ATS, all the banners and ads say this now...

EXPOSING BS ONE T**** AT A TIME.

Listen up, get over the misinformation, disinformation and historical inaccuracies once and for all.....Constantine DID NOT make a new religion. Constantine DID NOT make the Bible, Constantine DID NOT convert to Christianity until he was dying...

And further more...since you guys never read history nor do you know what is going on now....Constantine was BYZANTINE and NOT of the Roman rite.

How many times do I have to get on here and tell the same people over and over and over what they fail to understand?

Byzantine is EASTERN ORTHODOX, so unless you are talking to Russians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Estonians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Finns, Turks or anyone else from the EASTERN ROMAN empire that Constantine was emperor over.

You attacked Roman Catholics and didn't even know that Constatine was never in the Roman rite church in the Vatican. Sorry, he was in Turkey. Now, go on with the rest of it, but because you said King Constatine's religion, I had to make you aware of your fallacy.

Consantine converted to Christianinty in 312 AD. King Constantine called for the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. en.wikipedia.org... The Cannon had already been established but what the church would look like and what they would teach about Christ was established at the Council. Another member who has researched this more than I said that they even decided on the trinity, because not all believed they are one. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Regardless of what you believe. The interpretation and much of the church function was established at Nicaea which was brought together by King Constantine. So today's Catholic Church is the church of King Constantine. How much did the King have to say about the interpretation, it doesn't really matter.

What matters is that King Constantine along with a long line of Popes forced people to accept that the Pope was the only spokesperson for God on the planet, and whoever the Pope anoints as King is appointed by God himself.

The position of Pope is guilty of genocide. So even if the religion was not King Constantine's religion it is still not the religion of Christ. With the amount of blood on the hands of the Catholic church it amazes me how many simply overlook, blindly believe, and even defend the same interpretation that lead to genocide, several times.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: sacgamer25

originally posted by: ketsuko
Ah I see. So all I need to do is get saved and then I can go murder, rape and steal to my heart's content.

It is obvious that you read nothing and you have made yourself look ignorant.

No more so than you did the other day.

You can find God, and you can accept His presence inside you. None of that makes you perfect in your daily living. It will save you.

Anyone who says 'King Constantine's religion" is pretty ignorant of history, so I got him on it.

We are not perfect, it is a gradual work, but it's God's work to do in us.

a reply to: sacgamer25

Constantine was BYZANTINE.

Look up Byzantine.

I keep thinking you guys would learn never to use Wikipedia.

The Roman and the Eastern Rites are two different churches. You should know this.

And the Nicea Council had representatives from all over the known Christian world that were not all of the same churches, doctrines and not even the same Biblical books. Even today, those different churches have different books and holidays than other churches. Sorry, you just have to understand a little bit more about the different churches today and where they came from.

You didn't know, therefore counting you as ignorant.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: sacgamer25

Constantine was BYZANTINE.

Look up Byzantine.

I provided the proof that Constantine himself called for the Council of Nicaea. You have provided your opinion, which is not backed by facts.

originally posted by: sacgamer25

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: sacgamer25

Constantine was BYZANTINE.

Look up Byzantine.

I provided the proof that Constantine himself called for the Council of Nicaea. You have provided your opinion, which is not backed by facts.

You have provided proof from Wikipedia?

Of course he called for it, he was the Emperor of the Byzantine Eastern Empire. But the representatives came from everywhere.

OK history of the churches

Russian Orthodox founded by St. Andrew (Not Roman rite)
Greek Orthodox
Ethiopian Orthodox (founded by St. Philip)

These are just three of the churches that were at Nicea, and have their own patriarchs and popes and their own Bibles. I used Wikipedia because you guys like to read it so well.

These three churches are NOT Roman Catholic and have their origins BEFORE Constantine and yet were at Nicea.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: sacgamer25

originally posted by: ketsuko
Ah I see. So all I need to do is get saved and then I can go murder, rape and steal to my heart's content.

It is obvious that you read nothing and you have made yourself look ignorant.

No more so than you did the other day.

You can find God, and you can accept His presence inside you. None of that makes you perfect in your daily living. It will save you.

If you are not following perfection than you are not following his presence. Christ was perfect and he does make me perfect in my daily living.

Salvation is salvation from sin. If you cannot overcome sin then you have not been saved from sin.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: sacgamer25

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: sacgamer25

Constantine was BYZANTINE.

Look up Byzantine.

I provided the proof that Constantine himself called for the Council of Nicaea. You have provided your opinion, which is not backed by facts.

You have provided proof from Wikipedia?

Of course he called for it, he was the Emperor of the Byzantine Eastern Empire. But the representatives came from everywhere.

If he called for it, and at least some of the interpretation that was in question was resolved, then it is the Emperors religion. Where am I mistaken except in calling him King and not Emperor?

originally posted by: sacgamer25

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: sacgamer25

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: sacgamer25

Constantine was BYZANTINE.

Look up Byzantine.

I provided the proof that Constantine himself called for the Council of Nicaea. You have provided your opinion, which is not backed by facts.

You have provided proof from Wikipedia?

Of course he called for it, he was the Emperor of the Byzantine Eastern Empire. But the representatives came from everywhere.

If he called for it, and at least some of the interpretation that was in question was resolved, then it is the Emperors religion. Where am I mistaken except in calling him King and not Emperor?

Look at my edited post.

Constatine was Byzantine, please understand that Byzantine and Roman Catholic were NOT the same rites, Byzantine was called the Eastern rite and Rome was called the Roman rite.

a reply to: WarminIndy
I really don't understand your point. I just checked the differences in the 2 religions and the same problem that I speak about is found in both.

Both sides believe that it is impossible to follow the Holy Spirit to a state of perfection. Both sides claim that man remains in a fallen state until death. Both sides claim that you will be a failure your entire life. So both sides are telling the same lie.

So again, do you have anything to add that actually applies to what I have shown to be true in the scriptures themselves?

a reply to: sacgamer25

Another member who has researched this more than I said that they even decided on the trinity, because not all believed they are one.

Perhaps you misunderstood my friend...

Both sides were Trinitarian in that debate, but they were different styles of Trinitarian

The winning side was Athanasius who believed all three parts of the "godhead" were equal... which is what is taught today in most Christian sects...

Arius believed that The son was subordinate to the Father.... which is actually correct according to the gospels.... but does not reflect what is taught in Christianity today...

That is the reason I wrote this thread...

Reconciling Arius

Though that does not mean I personally agree that the trinity is correct in any way shape or form either

originally posted by: sacgamer25
So today's Catholic Church is the church of King Constantine. ... What matters is that King Constantine along with a long line of Popes forced people to accept that the Pope was the only spokesperson for God on the planet, and whoever the Pope anoints as King is appointed by God himself.

Uh ... no.

Matthew 16:18-19 Jesus said - And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Jesus founded the Church so it's the Church of Jesus. Jesus appointed Peter the head and said that whatever he decided on Earth was ratified in Heaven. And in Acts, Peter set up apostolic succession when they replaced Judas and prayed over him. There is an unbroken chain from Pope Francis back to Jesus appointing Peter as head of His church.

As for 'once saved always saved' ... that's dangerous hogwash. Christians must always be on guard and awake because their enemy, the devil, never sleeps.

From my point of view. A mature soul will even if it is hard, evolve towards perfection and not stay in a imperfection mode. Increasing awareness and standing up to the ego within to make sure you are not becoming narcissistic, greedy and unwise. And this is a continuous battle that becomes easier the more tools you learn.

I do think of the light as the same as chi/kundalini energy in eastern philosophy where baptism would represent an increased flow of energy thru the crown and third eye that will result in calmness and the bliss within. The energy fluctuations can travel down to the arms so that the person gets the vibrating hands (Reiki/lay of hands) that can be used for relaxing other people causing increased self healing in the other persons body.

My own thinking is that many in the Christian church uses names that Jesus used for things that Jesus could do that they can not and therefor they give of a false image that they know what they are talking about.

Just to make it clear for me it is not one Christ (anointed one) but many Christs (anointed ones). Every soul have the potential to go that path that Jesus taught. The question is will the one reading this text do it (if he/she have not already done it)?

Namaste.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sacgamer25
So today's Catholic Church is the church of King Constantine. ... What matters is that King Constantine along with a long line of Popes forced people to accept that the Pope was the only spokesperson for God on the planet, and whoever the Pope anoints as King is appointed by God himself.

Uh ... no.

Matthew 16:18-19 Jesus said - And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Jesus founded the Church so it's the Church of Jesus. Jesus appointed Peter the head and said that whatever he decided on Earth was ratified in Heaven. And in Acts, Peter set up apostolic succession when they replaced Judas and prayed over him. There is an unbroken chain from Pope Francis back to Jesus appointing Peter as head of His church.

As for 'once saved always saved' ... that's dangerous hogwash. Christians must always be on guard and awake because their enemy, the devil, never sleeps.

Peter was the Apostle to the Jews. Any church that he set up was to bring the Jews who had yet to accepted that Jesus was the Christ to Christ.

Even if Peter did set up an Apostolic church, the Catholic Church does not represent the teaching of Peter or Christ. Peter taught that the Perfect Holy Spirit was within all men. Peter taught that men did not need a teacher because the perfect teacher lives within them.

If Peter was baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, it was not the baptism that is done now. Peter knew Jesus Christ was the Light, the Holy Spirit. In the baptism of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, YOU are the son who is being raised in union with the father and the Holy Spirit, who is Christ Jesus. The baptism of Peter was to cleanse yourself of all sin and accept the perfect Light into your life. Setting your mind on what is perfect so that one may overcome all sin, and be like Christ.

Since Peter was declared to be the Apostle, only to the Jews, his church ended in 70 AD when the Jewish Temple was destroyed.

The bible says a religion will rise up after Christ with a false interpretation and teach the world maddening wine. This is what the teaching that bounds men to sin and failure is. It is maddening to tell someone that sin is stronger in their life than the perfect Holy Spirit.

The maddening wine that bounds men to sin is so maddening that the entire world overlooks the genocide that took place at the command of the Pope's who claim to be God's only representative on earth. The church that teaches that man must bow down in submission to another man.

Christ was teaching that perfection was within you, and that he was the only teacher that you need. Let the Light within you guide you, and you will no longer need a church, but rather you will seek others who are guided by the Light to commune with.

Paul on the other hand is the Apostle to the Gentiles who's church is spirit and continues forever, and he proclaimed that he was glad that he was not water baptizing the Gentiles. Paul did not believe that the outward ritual was necessary. What was necessary is the spiritual significance of baptism. The spiritual significance is to die to your own mind and be reborn with the mind of Christ, the mind that is set only on the Fathers Perfect Will.

The Father did not Create the Light so that man would always walk around in sin, darkness. He Created the Light so that we may become who we are destined to become. Perfect children of a perfect God, who have become Like his only Son that was born Perfect, the one who was without sin. If we are to be adopted into the family of God, we must rid ourselves of all sin, because God is Light, in him their is no Darkness. The one who is in the Light will not stumble because the Light is Perfect.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: sacgamer25

Another member who has researched this more than I said that they even decided on the trinity, because not all believed they are one.

Perhaps you misunderstood my friend...

Both sides were Trinitarian in that debate, but they were different styles of Trinitarian

The winning side was Athanasius who believed all three parts of the "godhead" were equal... which is what is taught today in most Christian sects...

Arius believed that The son was subordinate to the Father.... which is actually correct according to the gospels.... but does not reflect what is taught in Christianity today...

That is the reason I wrote this thread...

Reconciling Arius

Though that does not mean I personally agree that the trinity is correct in any way shape or form either

I was only using your post to show that one of the most important pieces of doctrines, the trinity, was in dispute.

The truth about the trinity is closer to Arius, and he may have been saying the same thing I am.

Christ is the Light created as the first act of creation in Genesis. The Light is the same Light spoken of by all the prophets.

Their is one father who is best described as LOVE. Love cannot be tempted nor does it tempt. Their is one Light who is the Holy Spirit, he was tempted and overcame all temptation, and he does tempt you towards Love.

The problem with believing that we each own a piece of the Light is to believe that each man is on an independent journey through life.

Accepting that their is only One perfect Light who lives within all men, and that all men have the freewill to choose Light and Darkness, is what leads to brotherly Love. Believing that One Light is within all men, and knowing that the Light is Christ Jesus brings a faith in humanity that cannot be found any other way.

Looking at the world we live in, it seem an impossibility that the age of Light, Enlightenment could be upon us. But knowing that their is only One Spirit who is within all men, changes what is impossible for me, into something possible for him. Every religious text that prophecies about the age of enlightenment says that the truth of the Dharma must be lost to most for the age of Christ to come. And every text claims that a man who can explain all of the Dharma will come and bring everyone back to the perfect Dharma.

The perfect Dharma is perfection of the mind, the mind who chooses the Light as the only guide. The unity of mind with the perfect Spirit, the shedding away of one's own desires to become one with humanity.